1. #12061
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    ah, and there you have the EXACT reason why Blizzard did it. They don't want people to actually know what's going on under the hood, to prevent accurate criticism. They'd much rather be able to only show just the things which make them look good. That, in and of itself, should be causing people concern. I get that there's marketing and image to maintain, but Blizzard used to be a company known for its integrity. These days they're hiding things. If they were really confident of their product, why are they so afraid to just say: "Yeah, we know subs are down. But our business model has changed to reflect cyclical players, and that's ok. The quality of WoW won't change, just the business model."

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's a case by case basis. For one encounter, Blizzard says: "We want players to have to tackle this tower from the ground floor up, til they finally fight the boss at the top." In that case they'd use any of the mechanics suggested in this thread to stop players from just landing on the top and skipping their intended approach.

    In another case, such as more open-ended content like archaeology, pet battles, or standard cut/paste kill quests, they don't use anti-air mechanics.

    In yet a third case, such as suramar, you lay down almost an entire zone worth of anti-air stuff, such as the suggested remnants of the shield causing unstable airspace that wouldn't be safe to fly in.

    Would examples like these spread across all zones take more work? Obviously. Would they also result in more interesting gameplay, as players had to switch between air mounts, ground mounts, gliding, or whatever other travel tools they have at their disposal? Also yes. The problem here is that you, Blizzard, and other fans seem to be completely unwilling to even consider the possibility that anything in the air could add to the game instead of detract from it.

    OH NO! Blizzard has to work a little harder to create a game that actually appeals to the people who enjoyed flying for nearly 8 years. What a fucking tragedy that would be! OH NO! Zones might have to be bigger! God forbid we have a large, expansive world filled with adventure to explore instead of the projects crammed so close together than you can barely move without tripping over something. OH NO! Some ground-pounding RP player might be offended that a flying player didn't swoop down to have a /hug and /wave session with them. OH NO! Players might actually enjoy the freedom to approach content how they want!

    The entire no-flying thing is just downright shameful.
    you need to always keep in mind that most peoples who claim they hate flying not only will defend blizzard decision but also don't want blizzard to invest time into it; blizzard only need to say that will cost you a raid tier and those peoples will pull down their pants.
    Hell i remember when blizzard finalized the garrison design and many peoples complained about the lack of customization many blizzard white knights swarmed the forum claiming that was the right decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  2. #12062
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    ah, and there you have the EXACT reason why Blizzard did it. They don't want people to actually know what's going on under the hood, to prevent accurate criticism. They'd much rather be able to only show just the things which make them look good. That, in and of itself, should be causing people concern. I get that there's marketing and image to maintain, but Blizzard used to be a company known for its integrity. These days they're hiding things. If they were really confident of their product, why are they so afraid to just say: "Yeah, we know subs are down. But our business model has changed to reflect cyclical players, and that's ok. The quality of WoW won't change, just the business model."
    I was unaware you spoke for Blizz or even worked for them. Apparently you expect YOUR speculation of why they did it to be taken as fact as well. I will leave this thread permanently and never return if one, or both of you, can offer substantive FACT and evidence to support your wild accusations about Blizz and why they do what they do. But since I am confident neither of you can provide an official source showing either claim:

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    ah, and there you have the EXACT reason why Blizzard did it. They don't want people to actually know what's going on under the hood, to prevent accurate criticism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    This new model effectively cuts the player base by half for half the expansion
    The kicker is, neither of you has any. You are just randomly shouting at the rain hoping others will believe the half truths and inaccuracies you are both prone to sharing. So let's stick to the facts.

    There was no flight in 7.0. There is no flight in 7.1. There "might" be flight in 7.2 or 7.3, but until there is a PTR with notes mentioning the testing of flight, this conversation is little more than pro-flight extremists stroking each other's egos and conspiracies with things like "Good post" and "I agree". Maybe if either of you offered facts vs speculation, you might have your opinion matter as something more than fictional amusement.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaarashatan View Post
    they should get rid of ground mounts, so we have to rp walk everyone, that will really boost immersion
    I already RP walk to most places, particularly since I am on an RP realm, and am in an RP guild, and remain in character while playing.

  3. #12063
    Quote Originally Posted by Legion Fan View Post
    I was unaware you spoke for Blizz or even worked for them. Apparently you expect YOUR speculation of why they did it to be taken as fact as well. I will leave this thread permanently and never return if one, or both of you, can offer substantive FACT and evidence to support your wild accusations about Blizz and why they do what they do. But since I am confident neither of you can provide an official source showing either claim:





    The kicker is, neither of you has any. You are just randomly shouting at the rain hoping others will believe the half truths and inaccuracies you are both prone to sharing. So let's stick to the facts.

    There was no flight in 7.0. There is no flight in 7.1. There "might" be flight in 7.2 or 7.3, but until there is a PTR with notes mentioning the testing of flight, this conversation is little more than pro-flight extremists stroking each other's egos and conspiracies with things like "Good post" and "I agree". Maybe if either of you offered facts vs speculation, you might have your opinion matter as something more than fictional amusement.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I already RP walk to most places, particularly since I am on an RP realm, and am in an RP guild, and remain in character while playing.

    /sigh

    Legion fan, I don't expect you to believe me, but I've been playing videogames for just around 30 years now. Longer than most gamers have even been alive. I played WC1 and Lost Vikings in their original state on a PC that required actual physical DISKS to install, and every other Blizzard title since. I've watched the gaming business evolve from something that was scorned as something only "nerds" would play(back when Nerd was actually an insult), into a multi-billion dollar, world-wide industry.

    Despite that, this isn't rocket science. I don't need a masters degree in business to be able to watch trends and follow the changing behavior of a company. I've watched the interviews, I've read the direct quotes from Blizzard. Some of the things they talk about are true and amazing. But some of them come off sounding like a politician who you KNOW is lying to you and trying to spin it to their favor as hard as they possibly can.

    Yes, that's my personal opinion. And yes, I do believe I'm qualified to criticize Blizzard and WoW. But, almost everything in this entire 600 page thread is opinion. I don't see why you're surprised by that, or say it like it's important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    /sigh

    Legion fan, I don't expect you to believe me, but I've been playing videogames for just around 30 years now. Longer than most gamers have even been alive. I played WC1 and Lost Vikings in their original state on a PC that required actual physical DISKS to install, and every other Blizzard title since. I've watched the gaming business evolve from something that was scorned as something only "nerds" would play(back when Nerd was actually an insult), into a multi-billion dollar, world-wide industry.

    Despite that, this isn't rocket science. I don't need a masters degree in business to be able to watch trends and follow the changing behavior of a company. I've watched the interviews, I've read the direct quotes from Blizzard. Some of the things they talk about are true and amazing. But some of them come off sounding like a politician who you KNOW is lying to you and trying to spin it to their favor as hard as they possibly can.

    Yes, that's my personal opinion. And yes, I do believe I'm qualified to criticize Blizzard and WoW. But, almost everything in this entire 600 page thread is opinion. I don't see why you're surprised by that, or say it like it's important.
    I too am old as dirt. I've been playing since Atari launched, and Kings Quest (22 floppy disks) was my first RPG. I get how games have changed in the past 40 years. That said, this game is going in a new direction. Has been since WoD. This is not news. Every company lies to its consumers. If they all told the truth, no one would ever buy anything. The issue I have is people pretending like this is new. It's not. Blizz bombed with WoD, but flying was not the nail in the coffin. Lack of content was the downfall. This is not the case with Legion.

    I get that flight is fun. I love dodging aggro as a Druid and clicking on things just 2 inches from bad guys. But, my fun aside, THIS IS HOW THE GAME WORKS NOW. So if I want to play WoW, I have to accept their changes and direction. Same goes for every other consumer. Bitch all ya like, but they are not changing it.

  5. #12065
    Except we know they listen to complaints and try to make things for the better when it makes sense. Keeping quiet about issues that are important to you doesn't get you anywhere unless you're stupid as dirt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Except we know they listen to complaints and try to make things for the better when it makes sense. Keeping quiet about issues that are important to you doesn't get you anywhere unless you're stupid as dirt.
    Your passive aggressive insult aside, when it comes to the topic of flying in WoW, MMO Champs had a 2241 page thread about flight found here which was closed on May 22, 2015 by a Mod:

    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis
    Now that we've had a day to absorb the impact of the revelation from Blizzard that flying will not be returning during this expansion, it's probably time to shut down this thread, which was made on the premise that it may or may not return.
    It was not added to the game for several more MONTHS, as seen here
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Flying on Draenor

    Flying has been enabled on Draenor for characters that have attained the account-wide achievement, Draenor Pathfinder. To help facilitate testing of this feature, accounts that have not yet obtained the achievement will be able to purchase a Manual of Rapid Pathfinding from Flaskataur in their Garrisons on the PTR.

    Please note there may still be areas or pockets on Draenor where flying has not yet been fully implemented. These areas will be tracked and listed in a forum thread titled "Flight in Draenor – Reported Bugs Thread" on the PTR Discussion forum.
    So rather that trying to pass off opinion as fact, I am using historical facts and data upon which to set my statement. We might get it for 7.2 or 7.3. Then again, if Legion's success continues as Kara has been a successful patch thus far, they may have found a way to deliver content and leave flight out entirely. But again, that is pure speculation. What we do know is there was no flight for 7.0, or 7.1. Guess you can all wait for 7.2 PTR to see if similar notes as quoted above appear for Legion.

  7. #12067
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post

    OH NO! Blizzard has to work a little harder to create a game that actually appeals to the people who enjoyed flying for nearly 8 years. What a fucking tragedy that would be! OH NO! Zones might have to be bigger! God forbid we have a large, expansive world filled with adventure to explore instead of the projects crammed so close together than you can barely move without tripping over something. OH NO! Some ground-pounding RP player might be offended that a flying player didn't swoop down to have a /hug and /wave session with them. OH NO! Players might actually enjoy the freedom to approach content how they want!

    The entire no-flying thing is just downright shameful.
    Here is the kicker.

    Larger zones make it better not just for flying mounts, but mob density isn't as high, player's don't experience as much lag, less stress on servers and most importantly allows you to stretch out the zone for ground mount usage. In other words, what zone design has always stood for in a MMORPG.

    WoD/Legion zone design is just copy pasta of existing art, music, and other assets with an extra vertical scale. No effort,no thought in mob density, they just plop it down and expect players to accept this world of warcraft?

    Unacceptable in my book.

    If the WoW devs love their mythic + dungeons, raids, and other instanced content, they need to get out of the way and allow non raiding system to thrive on their own. Right now the game is incomplete with flight as it shows with alt creation at an all time low, as well as professions and archaeology.

    Flight in Legion is going to flip the script and improve an average expansion thus far.

  8. #12068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion Fan View Post
    It was not added to the game for several more MONTHS, as seen here
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Flying on Draenor

    Flying has been enabled on Draenor for characters that have attained the account-wide achievement, Draenor Pathfinder. To help facilitate testing of this feature, accounts that have not yet obtained the achievement will be able to purchase a Manual of Rapid Pathfinding from Flaskataur in their Garrisons on the PTR.

    Please note there may still be areas or pockets on Draenor where flying has not yet been fully implemented. These areas will be tracked and listed in a forum thread titled "Flight in Draenor – Reported Bugs Thread" on the PTR Discussion forum.
    So rather that trying to pass off opinion as fact, I am using historical facts and data upon which to set my statement. We might get it for 7.2 or 7.3. Then again, if Legion's success continues as Kara has been a successful patch thus far, they may have found a way to deliver content and leave flight out entirely. But again, that is pure speculation. What we do know is there was no flight for 7.0, or 7.1. Guess you can all wait for 7.2 PTR to see if similar notes as quoted above appear for Legion.
    What's your point? My post was made three months before that announcement, when Blizzard was maintaining the line that flying would never return.

  9. #12069
    Quote Originally Posted by Legion Fan View Post
    I get that flight is fun. I love dodging aggro as a Druid and clicking on things just 2 inches from bad guys. But, my fun aside, THIS IS HOW THE GAME WORKS NOW. So if I want to play WoW, I have to accept their changes and direction. Same goes for every other consumer. Bitch all ya like, but they are not changing it.
    Don't you see it, though? A good portion of this thread has been about ways to not just slap flying into the game and break the content. This is the great fallacy of almost everyone who says flight isn't good for the game: The idea that flight is going to just be thrown in without thought. The idea that mechanics that provide challenges for flying players will be spammed everywhere like daze/dismount. NO! Fuck, NO! That is absolutely NOT the way forward for flying, and I 100% agree with people who criticize that version of nonsense.

    And as Thimagryn said above:
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Except we know they listen to complaints and try to make things for the better when it makes sense. Keeping quiet about issues that are important to you doesn't get you anywhere unless you're stupid as dirt.
    Blind acceptance of everything that Blizzard puts in the game is not the way to get the game to a better state. That's also another major theme of this thread: Fighting against just swallowing whole anything Blizzard does. Criticizing bad ideas and providing suggestions and examples of alternative ways to accomplish the same goals in a better manner.

    This thread and others have shown time, after time, after time that flying is NOT responsible for 99% of the problems that Blizzard and their superfans claim it is. We've provided solutions, new mechanics, clever ways of using existing tech and mechanics, and just about anything else to illustrate how flying can add to the game. But despite all that, the response is almost universally: "It's Blizzard's game and they can do whatever they want." Even your post above, Legionfan, is just a fancy way of regurgitating that same, tired statement. "This is how the game works now", as though it was written in stone and had no chance of ever changing or evolving.

  10. #12070
    Quote Originally Posted by Legion Fan View Post
    So rather that trying to pass off opinion as fact, I am using historical facts and data upon which to set my statement. We might get it for 7.2 or 7.3. Then again, if Legion's success continues as Kara has been a successful patch thus far, they may have found a way to deliver content and leave flight out entirely. But again, that is pure speculation. What we do know is there was no flight for 7.0, or 7.1. Guess you can all wait for 7.2 PTR to see if similar notes as quoted above appear for Legion.
    If you weren't already aware, this entire thread is about discussing opinions. If you want facts, stick to Blizzard's official site for news and stay out of discussion forums, because you obviously aren't interested in anything other than what's happening. You really have little reason to be here considering nothing you have provided has been anything but trying to 'disprove' people that their intentions are futile because Blizzard has already chosen to do something.

    Well this isn't about changing what Blizzard has already done. This is about voicing things out and making it known that what they're doing is not completely agreeable, and that we think there can be a better way to implement flying without ruining immersion/paced gameplay. You may enjoy sticking to your 'Blizzard says' bubble, but you can't then use that to judge everyone else's actions.

    I'm not passing off opinion as fact, so I don't know why you're even saying those things to me. I have a feeling you think I'm Malfic in disguise and are making arguments someone else completely. Do you think all Pro-flying people are the same person? If you're going to quote respond me, you could at least reply to the arguments I am making rather than attack the ones that I have not made.
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  11. #12071
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    What's your point? My post was made three months before that announcement, when Blizzard was maintaining the line that flying would never return.
    My point is pro-flight extremists are acting as though Blizz just changed their minds on a dime to add flight simply because they bitched about it long enough.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    If you weren't already aware, this entire thread is about discussing opinions. If you want facts, stick to Blizzard's official site for news and stay out of discussion forums, because you obviously aren't interested in anything other than what's happening. You really have little reason to be here considering nothing you have provided has been anything but trying to 'disprove' people that their intentions are futile because Blizzard has already chosen to do something.

    Well this isn't about changing what Blizzard has already done. This is about voicing things out and making it known that what they're doing is not completely agreeable, and that we think there can be a better way to implement flying without ruining immersion/paced gameplay. You may enjoy sticking to your 'Blizzard says' bubble, but you can't then use that to judge everyone else's actions.

    I'm not passing off opinion as fact, so I don't know why you're even saying those things to me. I have a feeling you think I'm Malfic in disguise and are making arguments someone else completely. Do you think all Pro-flying people are the same person? If you're going to quote respond me, you could at least reply to the arguments I am making rather than attack the ones that I have not made.
    Topic of the thread: No flying in 7.0 confirmed

    New topic: No flying in 7.1 confirmed

    Next topic: No flying in 7.2 confirmed

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Don't you see it, though? A good portion of this thread has been about ways to not just slap flying into the game and break the content. This is the great fallacy of almost everyone who says flight isn't good for the game: The idea that flight is going to just be thrown in without thought. The idea that mechanics that provide challenges for flying players will be spammed everywhere like daze/dismount. NO! Fuck, NO! That is absolutely NOT the way forward for flying, and I 100% agree with people who criticize that version of nonsense.

    And as Thimagryn said above:


    Blind acceptance of everything that Blizzard puts in the game is not the way to get the game to a better state. That's also another major theme of this thread: Fighting against just swallowing whole anything Blizzard does. Criticizing bad ideas and providing suggestions and examples of alternative ways to accomplish the same goals in a better manner.

    This thread and others have shown time, after time, after time that flying is NOT responsible for 99% of the problems that Blizzard and their superfans claim it is. We've provided solutions, new mechanics, clever ways of using existing tech and mechanics, and just about anything else to illustrate how flying can add to the game. But despite all that, the response is almost universally: "It's Blizzard's game and they can do whatever they want." Even your post above, Legionfan, is just a fancy way of regurgitating that same, tired statement. "This is how the game works now", as though it was written in stone and had no chance of ever changing or evolving.
    Players have offered HUNDREDS of options to make flight more immersive and less god-like. Blizz doesn't care. They like it broken and want to add it when they are ready, and not because 10 people whined for 2241 pages.

  12. #12072
    Quote Originally Posted by Legion Fan View Post
    Players have offered HUNDREDS of options to make flight more immersive and less god-like. Blizz doesn't care. They like it broken and want to add it when they are ready, and not because 10 people whined for 2241 pages.
    In your last post you literally said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion Fan View Post
    So rather that trying to pass off opinion as fact, I am using historical facts and data upon which to set my statement.
    And now you're speaking as though you know the inner workings of Blizzard's decision-making processes?

  13. #12073
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    So x-weeks in, most content and quests and pathfinder done can i fucking finally have my (druid)wings back so I can live my class fantasy ffs?

  14. #12074
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    So x-weeks in, most content and quests and pathfinder done can i fucking finally have my (druid)wings back so I can live my class fantasy ffs?
    It is going to be a while because mid expansion can be interpreted in many ways.

    It could mean till August of 2017 which would make it the one year mark as most expansions average about 2 years give or take. It could mean mid patch cycle where there are five patches and the third patch being "mid expansion".

    Or it could mean something entirely else as a standard.

    Just have to be patient or wait to see changes moving forward.

  15. #12075
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    In your last post you literally said:

    And now you're speaking as though you know the inner workings of Blizzard's decision-making processes?
    Blizzard Added flight in August 2015. Thread was LOCKED in May 2015. The thread on MMO-C was NOT directly related to flight being added to Draenor. That's about as basic and honest as a fact can be. Unless they were moved by the bitching and just took 3 months to implement it.

  16. #12076
    Quote Originally Posted by Legion Fan View Post
    My point is pro-flight extremists are acting as though Blizz just changed their minds on a dime to add flight simply because they bitched about it long enough.
    Sadly, that´s exactly what happened. :<
    They intended to go forward with no flight ever but the big uproar made them cancel the next Q&A and delay it another week because they had to take action concerning the flying. a couple of days after that the big announcement that flying would come after all appeared in middle of the week before the new Q&A time.
    source: https://inanage.com/2015/06/11/a-flight-far-enough/

    This also makes it even more depressing, knowing that blizzard simply ignores constructive criticism and good ideas. Only mass whine helps.

  17. #12077
    Quote Originally Posted by Legion Fan View Post
    Topic of the thread: No flying in 7.0 confirmed

    New topic: No flying in 7.1 confirmed

    Next topic: No flying in 7.2 confirmed
    There's no new topics made because the mods have consolidated it all into one mega thread. If you have a problem with this, then leave the discussion. Really not that hard, just like if you don't like flying, don't let other people ruin the fun you're already having.

    At this point, you're probably spending more time here than actually playing the game.
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  18. #12078
    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamander View Post
    Sadly, that´s exactly what happened. :<
    They intended to go forward with no flight ever but the big uproar made them cancel the next Q&A and delay it another week because they had to take action concerning the flying. a couple of days after that the big announcement that flying would come after all appeared in middle of the week before the new Q&A time.
    source: https://inanage.com/2015/06/11/a-flight-far-enough/

    This also makes it even more depressing, knowing that blizzard simply ignores constructive criticism and good ideas. Only mass whine helps.
    That's not exactly what happened then, Blizzard responded to the feedback over "no flight ever" within a week, the fact people had been complaining about "flight delayed" for over a year was pretty much ignored.

  19. #12079
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    That's not exactly what happened then, Blizzard responded to the feedback over "no flight ever" within a week, the fact people had been complaining about "flight delayed" for over a year was pretty much ignored.
    Yeah ofc they had but that was nowhere near as massive as the complains after the "no flight ever" thus the conclusion. Blizzard wont be swayed until there is enough whine. So yes, it's exactly what happened.

  20. #12080
    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamander View Post
    Yeah ofc they had but that was nowhere near as massive as the complains after the "no flight ever" thus the conclusion. Blizzard wont be swayed until there is enough whine. So yes, it's exactly what happened.
    It is because they pretty much reach a compromise. It looks clear, to me (shocker, opinion), that during this decision process both people within the development team and the community were divided over flight. So they found middle ground that honestly satisfied most people of reason. I for one was very anti flight and really enjoy the ground aspect but understand others like to fly thus putting a time table in with an achievement made it perfectly acceptable to me. Sure I would be giving up my preference but they endured then so I would as well. Didn't feel the need to make a "take flying away" thread because either way in the end it's just a form of travel. Not to mention comprimse is something I am willing to accept in debates because it's better than an endless circle jerk of selfish intentions. I will enjoy the game my way while it's here and then adjust to it when it morphs into the other without complaining. Hell likely even bother to find some fun in the other side instead of just soaking in tears over it. I am to old to be doing shit like that anymore. Just got to man up and deal with it. Then to tell you the truth I won't notice either way.

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