"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
At first they were, yes. Then they were nerfed, bringing them to around where current Legion mythics are now, and suddenly people started doing them just fine, especially when their gear started catching up. And gear is a hell of a lot more available in Legion than it was in Cata.
So why is it relevant? Because people aren't going to have problems pugging Mythic-0. The idea that matchmaking is somehow drawing from different pools of players than matchmaking just doesn't make sense. It's the same players. Are people calling for nerfs to Mythic-0 right now?
Thats exactly the point. You can't have an entry requirement set at the reward level of the dungeon, but you can't have the same difficulty level non-queued allows for in a queued group.
So what then, nerf the mechanics and trivialise the bosses? Can't do that without making a mockery of Kara. The only option is to make sure people outgear it, then taking away incentive to do it.
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Get out of fairy land and come back to the real world.
Cata heroics were difficult and queueable. "OMG Blizz pls nerf!"
SoO LFR. "OMG Blizz pls nerf!"
It wouldn't work without gutting the difficulty, which would lead to gutted rewards and more QQ.
The average pug is not going to abide one person dead on the final boss. I'm guessing at least two will get knocked off most attempts.
Hell, the average pug barely understood standing on nether banish on Archimonde, hence auto port on LFR.
I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.
I think going by this thread and the many, many more concerning the group finder system, issues with mythic only quests and dungeons that's patently not true. There would obviously be overlap but if everyone was already a regular in mythic dungeons now we wouldn't see these.
Last edited by cFortyfive; 2016-10-31 at 06:44 AM.
Once again, there's no need to believe in anything, cuz it's a fact, it happened more than once, and not so long ago.
I have no problems w/ having casual content, I'm casual myself, I quit raiding seriously back in Cata after Ragna HC kill, now I'm m0 hero at best, haven't done any M+s, lol.
But there are TWO issues, there always are people who cry for nerfs, Blizz guys tend to listen to these crybullies, at least they used to...
If Blizz added m0s as they are now w/o any kind of nerfing to LFD system, that'd be cool. However, adding nerfed to the ground m0s to the system would be a step in wrong direction, cuz content wouldn't be engaging then. Ofc there are people who don't care about it, BUT pisseasy content doesn't contribute to player retention at all.
Think about it, if m0s were nerfed, then added to LFD, people who liked running more or less engaging original m0s would lose their content, cuz not everyone likes m+ w/ timers, and doing easy shit is boring; and people who got into m0s only thanks to LFD wouldn't run them often either. Many people who don't run m0 atm, don't see m0 as their type of content anyway, they want to go there cuz of something else, e.g. quests, and not because it's m0.
im sorry but .... buahaahahahahahah
god i really love the bubble some of you people you live in
how is 1 % aka mythic raiders on off nights account for "most" of people - god id really love to hear your reasoning for such thoughts
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so what if thats not something what people want - they are forcing that content into people that do not want it - its retarded design that is bound to backfire at them.
No they don't. They listen to subscriber numbers. Those just often correlate with the "nerf,pls" posts in the forums.
Blizz certainly didn't write the "Wow dungeons are difficult" blogpost back then and a few weeks later nerf the dungeons because they have been convinced by forum posts. They saw people quitting and reversed their (problably widely supported by the team) design decision to make dungeons hard.
Blizzards design team was (and probably still is) very old-school elitist about MMOs. Thats funny considering WoW always was one of the most casual MMOs available. I guess they just wanted the big money so they all went to the biggest game, but most of the population never supported their design ideals.
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Everyone i know does this so everyone must be doing that, right? Right?
The same thing that happens every expansion. Youre told to shut the fuck up because theres tons of things to do and if you dont want to do it, tough shit *shrug*.
Then you go back to what everyone else does and logs in for raid night and Dailies, oh I mean, super awesome new and fresh world quests.
Okay... elaborate... no clue what you are talking about...
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I still don't understand this... why not just have mythic 0 require heroic item level. (so it is a step up) and it drops gear required to do mythic+1 etc ... if you drop gear in your dungeon is lower then what is required to even do the dungeon ... again, what is the point of the dungeon?
You say grab popcorn but he is right. The ONLY way to keep current dungeons that come out relevant is to make it drop higher ilvl loot and this would require that their would need to be a barrier to earn said loot, which means that a higher ilvl requirement should be mandatory.
Aren't people absolutely sick of the welfare system that is in place in WoW? You know why people miss vanilla and TBC? Its not the skill trees or the 40 man raiding. Its the feeling of progression. There is no progression now.
Want in AQ40? You had to have done MC , BWL, etc. Now a days its "wanna do last raid tier? Do WQs for 2 days and LFR for a week". Its pathetically sad.
Reading again about this topic make me wonder why did they implement M0 dungeons if they are old Heroics difficulty (aka EASY)? They should have scraped H all together, put Mythic 0 in group finder, leave Mythic 0 gating as is and let players pug for M+ if they want too.
Everybody would be happy and anyone could enjoy Kara. Just put a higher ilvl req for this one as it is overturned compared to other M0.
That is a LOT of assumption and speaking for what other players think. But for the sake of argument I'll point out that Mythic+ solves all those problems you presented. You don't HAVE to beat the timer to finish a mythic+ run, and if people want harder content, there it is. For people that DON'T want harder content, Mythic Zero IS. NOT. HARD. It doesn't need to be nerfed to be put in the matchmaking system! It's already at the same level as previous heroics. As I already said, if Mythic-0 was called "Heroic", we wouldn't even be having this ridiculous discussion.
And again, just for the sake of argument, so what if mythic-0 WAS nerfed? So? Who cares?! Mythic+ still exists for the hardcore fans who want harder and harder content. It would literally change NOTHING for those players. Casual and lesser skilled players get to see the content and complete their quests. Hardcore players get to keep their higher difficulty and rewards. Where, exactly, is the downside? Some ambiguous potential increase in community toxicity from the vocal minority on the forums: The small group of people that even Blizzard claims doesn't represent the majority of the player base? Good god! The SKY is falling! Shut it all down NOW! /sarcasm
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My point was that people who are currently using LFG to run these dungeons are many of those same players who would otherwise use Matchmaking if it was available, but have to use LFG because there's no other option. Are those players creating complaints about the difficulty of Mythic-0? Are there calls for nerfs for Mythic-0, right now, from those players?
The idea that use of LFG magically makes people better players is false. The idea that use of LFG cuts down on the toxicity of the community is, in my eye, questionable at best. As I've said before, there are better ways to address that issue.
Last edited by SirCowdog; 2016-10-31 at 02:07 PM.
Exactly there's a lot of conflicting arguments here...
Mythic 0 is already easy
Mythic 0 is too hard for LFG
Nobody that wants challenge does Mythic +
Don't nerf Mythic 0
It feels more like a certain number want Mythic 0 to be exclusive for whatever mad reason despite Blizzard sticking story progress behind Mythic quest
Repeat after me: "If Mythic-0 was called HEROIC" we wouldn't be having this discussion."
This is 100% an issue of perception.
I get it: Blizzard wants to promote more organized group content. I'm ok with that! I just think the way they're going about it is bad. It's the same approach they took with flight. If something doesn't fit their vision, they take away all other options but the one that they want to push. It's not creative. It's not innovative. It's taking the game backwards instead of forwards. I do not believe their reasoning is sound.
You want to promote more organized groups? What is the number one, top thing that almost every player wants out of WoW? Loot! Stagger out challenge mode appearances in higher Mythic+ levels. Titles. Achievements. You want to address toxic players? Implement a better system of handling them, such as the low priority queue I suggested earlier.
You do NOT address the issue by effectively saying that casuals and matchmaking are the source of all toxicity, and taking away convenience.