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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Oh, fuck no! I do not want more dungeons like Kara. It's by far the worst dungeon of this expantion.
    Nope that would be Black Rook Hold.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    Its the game that has to drive social interaction and you need to wake up and realize this - Blizzard seem to have.

    As you state, interaction alone and for no reason is not social or constructive. Interaction driven by a game goal most certainly is - it can lead to the formation of guilds and friendship. It is Blizzard that need to set these goals and they are the only ones that can.
    It has to be driven by players who want it.
    Forced interaction only leads to proximity.
    Players then choose to take it one way or the other.
    As you say it CAN lead to a positive outcome, but it also CAN go the other way.
    And that bit rests entirely in the hands of players.

    Players decide the outcome.

    You can take a horse to water, but cannot make it drink.
    WE make the final decision.
    All blizzard can do is give us the tools, which they are.

    As shown by inflated item level requirements, there a lot of players actively taking it in an anti-social direction.
    And that is why content without player-dictated requirements, content like random dungeons and LFR is more necessary than it has ever been.
    The community is more self-destructive than it has been in years, if not ever.
    And always blizzard to blame for decisions players make.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2016-10-30 at 12:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by troll View Post
    maybe they should just quit???? why would blizzard want to cater to people who don't want to play the game?????
    Wow excuse me for having a busy life and can't play WoW like I did when I was a teenager. I guess the "elder" gamers shouldn't be gaming at all according to your f'ed up logic.

  4. #104
    The Lightbringer DesoPL's Avatar
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    Idk it is just me, but OP said more about. "How make WoW unfriendly for casuals"
    .

  5. #105
    the best revamp?..

    mythic only content shit is one of the many nails in this coffin.

  6. #106
    Immortal Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    No thank you. Overall, I like my 20-30 min. dungeons. I don't want to invest 2-3 hours on each and every one of them.
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    It has to be driven by players who want it.
    Forced interaction only leads to proximity.
    Players then choose to take it one way or the other.
    As you say it CAN lead to a positive outcome, but it also CAN go the other way.
    And that bit rests entirely in the hands of players.

    Players decide the outcome.

    You can take a horse to water, but cannot make it drink.
    WE make the final decision.
    All blizzard can do is give us the tools, which they are.

    As shown by inflated item level requirements, there a lot of players actively taking it in an anti-social direction.
    And that is why content without player-dictated requirements, content like random dungeons and LFR is more necessary than it has ever been.
    The community is more self-destructive than it has been in years, if not ever.
    And always blizzard to blame for decisions players make.
    And you think any of that gives Blizzard a pass when it dosen't.

    If you think that allowing groups to be formed anonymously is a social tool you don't understand the problem. They have introduced the very tools that remove the need to be social, not encourage it.

    This game was a far more social game in the past, you said yourself "The community is more self-destructive than it has been in years, if not ever". So whats changed? - the only thing it can be the game itself. And only Blizzard can fix it, because they are the only ones that make changes. And within their game, within their rules and their world they can influence the decisions players make.

  8. #108
    I personally really like Kara so far but I see why people are put off by the difficulty and length. While I personally think difficulty should be left alone and allowed to be over come as people get further geared and experince the length of the zone can lead to a lot of issues. Sure I have a guild. Sure many of us do. But a lot of people just don't have that and it being devided into 2 zones instead of just one would make that much easier for a majority of players. I mean I blew threw it with my main and alt both times in about an hour but I also usually had a mythic geared DPS or two in the group that made clearing it in an hour a pretty reasonable situation. But an hour is a pretty long time for a 5 man. I could tell even in my group of people used to raiding 2-3 hours at a stretch that it wasn't going to be something they were going to do on the regular simply because of the length of time it requires compared to its rewards.

  9. #109
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luckx View Post
    But there is alot ppl who dislike playing PC games too much, they play only 1-2 hours @ week, and there is ppl who login into WOW play for 20-30mins and then log out.

    Playing too much is not healthy for eyes and eyesight
    You can play through Karazhan in multiple sessions.

  10. #110
    While I love Karazhan I do think making every dungeon that way will make it lose the novelty, not to mention that having to go at snails pace because more than one pack of mobs is too dangerous isn't really all that entertaining honestly.

  11. #111
    Good luck finding people for making Kara per 30minutes session.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    not to mention that having to go at snails pace because more than one pack of mobs is too dangerous isn't really all that entertaining honestly.
    That's either a gear or a skill issue though, doing the Nightbane run you have to pull way more than one pack at the time and it's quite doable.

  13. #113
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    Time spent =/= skill. Get over yourself -- 0/10.
    EverQuest, City of Heroes, Star Wars Galaxies, EverQuest II, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Star Wars TOR, Guild Wars 2, Rift.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by VileGenesis View Post
    Are you for real? I have been sat in front of a screen since I was a young kid, my eyesight is perfect.

    Also all studies show that as long as you keep a proper distance from the screen, gaming has no adverse effect on the eyes, in fact it usually improve reactionspeed.

    That is just a bullshit excuse parents of the 90s used to get kids of the computer.
    I would say Parents of the late 80s, 90s & early 2000s.
    I don't always hunt things, But when I do, It's because they're things & I'm a Bear.


  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpedrote52 View Post
    sure if you prefer a zerg dungeon where you don't need to think about anything and just rush the current dungeons are fine, but the addition of more bosses with simpler but deadlier mechanics is better for the game i guarantee you.
    I already hated dungeons before they added legendary drop chances increases from chests, now you want me to stop doing them forever?
    Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.
    To resist the influence of others, knowledge of oneself is most important.


  16. #116
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jpedrote52 View Post
    First of all let me say this is the best revamp blizz has ever made, but it's not has good as the old Karazhan because ti's a dungeon and not a raid also old Kara offered meaningful progression plus fun the new version only offer fun (and there's nothing wrong with that), but aside from that it's a pretty great dungeon.

    Karazhan does something amazing, it incentives community interaction because of the short attunement and it filters out all the "shit" players that hate to put in time and effort and can't be asked to create a group, giving them 2 options - 1 - either they play along and put in a tiny bit of effort do the attunement and get to see the content. or 2 - they don't see the content.

    What makes Karazhan good? is it the difficulty? the complex boss boss mechanics? the loot?

    Nope it's the instance magnitude and the time it takes to complete, no one would remember Kara if it was a 30 mins zerg fest like all these new dungeons, the more time you invest in something the more memorable it is, in the end of this expansion not a single person is gonna say "ye 'member when we cleared maw a souls under 10 mins, ye brah, such a good dungeons right!"

    Death means something again! yup dying in a dungeon is actually meaningful again outside of time runs, i see a lot of people complaining about the corpse run being to long, those people are retarded, the corpse runs are supposed to be long, they are the punishment for you sucking or making a mistake.

    improvement that can be made for future dungeons -

    DON'T MAKE IT A FUCKING ZERG FEST. it's been this way since wotlk and enough is enough, pulling 2 packs of mobs should be something you avoid because it should result in a wipe.

    Make dungeons take longer and add more bosses no one cares about the boss mechanics, they have been almost all the same with slight variations since wotlk. more bosses = more fun.

    Keep the attunements and use them in all instances they keep away the trash players and forces them to get better and actually invest time in the game.
    Sorry OP, but even if yours is the best post ever made in the whole universe, you shuold never call people "shit players" for not having time to "invest" in a game.
    Never.

    PS: even worse is that probably this kind of players will not affect your play-time in any way. So i don't see a reason to call them trash or shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Another thing, reading all the posts i see a common mistake, to put on the same table time and effort. Well good news, they are not the same thing.
    I can play only 4 hour a day during week. This mean i have a very small time to play,so if i want to make a raid or a kara i need to plan it carefully, because sometime i can't even play, and of course i am not inside a raiding guild, because i don't want them to waste their time.
    All this mean i put little time in this game.
    Does this mean i put no effort?
    No. Because i follow mmo-champion to know tactis before raids and dgs are out, i watch youtube videos, i enchant my gear, i do my AP world quest etc. etc.
    This means i put effort in the game, even if i don't have much time to play it.
    And my game time does not afflict the "pro players", because they A) probably play in a guild / B) if they pug, they usually try to find people that meet their standards.

    So please, stop with this effort=play time bullshit.

  17. #117
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    I want a Lamborghini too but i didnt invest in becoming a mech engineer or a doctor, or a drug lord, or a weapons dealer.

    Great logic.

    To the OP, running back for 5mins doesnt make a good dungeon or a hard dungeon, you killed your post with that, otherwise you have a few good points that also cant work with todays standards.

    Karazhan is a mini-raid for the people that dont want to raid and want gear above 850 as many cry that they are stuck at 845-850.

    Attunement is a good way to weed out "bads" or "Shit" as you call them, but what about my alt? My alt can probably outdps/outtank/outheal your main, why is he locked out exactly?

    There is logic, and there is stupidity in things, big/long dungeons should be a thing much more often, but attunement doesnt mean jack shit.
    Attunement is account-wide you know right? So why would your alt be locked out?

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    That's either a gear or a skill issue though, doing the Nightbane run you have to pull way more than one pack at the time and it's quite doable.
    Oh I know that it is possible to pull multiple packs in Karazhan, what I understood from OP is that he wants dungeons where you don't pull more than one pack because its too much, which in turn makes for a very slow run, which I find boring.

  19. #119
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shot89 View Post
    Sorry OP, but even if yours is the best post ever made in the whole universe, you shuold never call people "shit players" for not having time to "invest" in a game.
    Never.

    PS: even worse is that probably this kind of players will not affect your play-time in any way. So i don't see a reason to call them trash or shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Another thing, reading all the posts i see a common mistake, to put on the same table time and effort. Well good news, they are not the same thing.
    I can play only 4 hour a day during week. This mean i have a very small time to play,so if i want to make a raid or a kara i need to plan it carefully, because sometime i can't even play, and of course i am not inside a raiding guild, because i don't want them to waste their time.
    All this mean i put little time in this game.
    Does this mean i put no effort?
    No. Because i follow mmo-champion to know tactis before raids and dgs are out, i watch youtube videos, i enchant my gear, i do my AP world quest etc. etc.
    This means i put effort in the game, even if i don't have much time to play it.
    And my game time does not afflict the "pro players", because they A) probably play in a guild / B) if they pug, they usually try to find people that meet their standards.

    So please, stop with this effort=play time bullshit.
    I never said that you're a shit player or trash just because you can't invest time in the game, The shit and trash players i'm talking about are the ones that choose to not put in effort.

    I have no problem with players that can only invest 1 or 2 hours a week in the game, in fact players that can play less are favoured by content that requires time and effort because when they log in they have always something to progress towards

  20. #120
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    These came...before Kara.



    Attunements don't weed out the shit players - they weed out the players who don't want to or can't invest as much time - especially on week 1. Think of it this way - if you spend 80% of your playtime finishing world quests - you're not going to get much done in the way of attunements. A majority of bad players don't have a lot of time invested in this game.

    I can't imagine why they would make Mythic-only dungeons UNLESS they had specific goals for them(like Arcway/Court of Stars being part of the story or Karazhan being intended as a 5-man raid). Content like dungeons simply aren't cheap to make. They take a lot of manpower, which costs money. Having players clear it once a week or in some cases once period just isn't cost efficient. Something like Eye of Azshara you're going to see *at least* a dozen times. Normals while leveling, heroics when you first ding 825, Mythic when you first hit that 830-840 mark, Mythic+ when your key rolls that way, etc. Once people are done with 865 gear, Kara will barely be ran beyond for nightbane attempts or specific trinkets.

    They should design it with M+ in mind(maybe wings?) or have a scaling difficulty in some way that isn't timed that people could come back to (like Mythic EN level gear/challenge). If they did that, They could have named Karazhan a "heroic 5-man Raid" or something and added a Mythic level to it. I think a lot of people would enjoy it. /shrug.

    I love kara, I just wish it was designed with replayability in mind. I'd love to run through it on like a M+10 challenge run. It'd also give the people who complain that all end-game right now is either raiding or speed-runs something to do.
    I agree fully, and maybe Blizz will add in + for KZ 2.0 , but I mean, I just loved the great pugs, amazing skill to synergy - nobody raged, nobody blamed anything - we just ran back, killed the boss with more knowledge with a test run, and idk.. I haven't had this much fun in a 5 man for a lonnnnng time.

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