No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[GoKs]

If you think that a mode of travel is what breaks the camel's back for someone, then I have some beach front property in Arizona i'd like to sell you.

Then tell me this.... why are you against flying?

[quras]

If you think that a mode of travel is what breaks the camel's back for someone, then I have some beach front property in Arizona i'd like to sell you.

The you better get to work on that somehow because I did not get Legion because of no flying. I will no longer play another wow expansion as long as flying is some mystery and we have no idea when it will be around.

I've played wow without flying. Loved when we finally got it. Was annoyed when blizzard started screwing with it and driven to not play given how things turned out.

Sure, there are other problems with wow but no flying for so long after max level was unacceptable. A catalyst to make sure I didn't buy into legion. A mode of travel that did break the camels back for me.

[Jaylock]

Then tell me this.... why are you against flying?

I'm not against it. I'll use it when its available. I just don't whine and complain that its not in the game because i'm enjoying the actual CONTENT in the game. A mode of travel is just a mode of travel, to get from point A to point B. Or to get from CONTENT A, to CONTENT B.

[SirCowdog]

They, as in Blizzard, wanted no flying ever? Now we will have flying with pathfinder? Or was that forgotten as you posted it?

How? They created the expansion with the intent to unlock flying in it at some point during the expansion. How are they getting no-flight-ever-again, or how are you extrapolating that from the current pathfinder system?

They get to design ground content without considering the presence of flight. They get everyone who wants flight to approach the content in the manner they dictate. They get players to spend longer consuming content. They get players who want flight to consume more of the content than they otherwise would because it's required to unlock flight.

I shouldn't even need to explain this by this point in the argument.

Flying will ruin the MMO feeling of WoW.

Oh FFS! really? REALLY? Lets just ignore flying that existed for nearly 8 years. Flying is more a part of what WoW is than non-flying. What a fucking joke.

[Jaylock]

The you better get to work on that somehow because I did not get Legion because of no flying. I will no longer play another wow expansion as long as flying is some mystery and we have no idea when it will be around.

I've played wow without flying. Loved when we finally got it. Was annoyed when blizzard started screwing with it and driven to not play given how things turned out.

Sure, there are other problems with wow but no flying for so long after max level was unacceptable. A catalyst to make sure I didn't buy into legion. A mode of travel that did break the camels back for me.

Great! So then the actual content in the game is not that important to you then. Its interesting to see this phenomenon among some players who think that somehow a form of travel is the meat of the content of a game, rather than the actual content itself.

I'd advise to give up your "fight" and accept and move on. Why keep posting and creating a "problem" when there is none? Blizzard likes pathfinder, and thats how it will be from now on.

[GoKs]

I'm not against it. I'll use it when its available. I just don't whine and complain that its not in the game because i'm enjoying the actual CONTENT in the game. A mode of travel is just a mode of travel, to get from point A to point B. Or to get from CONTENT A, to CONTENT B.

I really dont understand the argument that players that use flight cant enjoy content..... Who but myself can say what I enjoy and what I dont enjoy? I have news for you.... everything in the game is CONTENT, even if I spend 8 hours flying around the map, I am interacting with content....

[quras]

Great! So then the actual content in the game is not that important to you then. Its interesting to see this phenomenon among some players who think that somehow a form of travel is the meat of the content of a game, rather than the actual content itself.

Travel gets me to the content I plan to do faster. It does not let me finish it faster as I cannot complete it while flying. I know you are smart enough to know the difference.

Travel and getting to where you want to go faster is not a problem and especialy so come max level and beyond when you have seen the land. Beat those now worthless mobs a number of times to the point they are outleveled and no longer needed. Travel shoudl get players to where they want to go sooner at max level when the grind of the game starts.

I find it interesting that after all this time you cannot see the difference in travel and actually doing the content that got you out in the world to start with. I sure as hell don't go out to beat up some worthless garbage mobs again and again and again as if that still had any entertainment value.

I'd advise to give up your "fight" and accept and move on.

That will not happen till blizzard puts in a better system than what they have now and the mysterious, "mid expansion" bullshit.

Why keep posting and creating a "problem" when there is none? Blizzard likes pathfinder, and thats how it will be from now on.

I prefer to make sure it's known on a wow forum that I dislike how blizzard has handled pathfinder in how it can be completed. Pathfinder is not so bad IF it was actually all in the game and you could complete it at when the expansion came out. But that is not the case so it loses any chance of being accepted as an alternative because we have no idea when it can actually be completed and thats a problem.

blizzard can sit back and do nothing if they so choose as I have chosen to not given them the money they once had and until the do a better job with getting flying back in the game. That is how it will be from now own.

Oh, I still need that beach front property in Arizona if you don't mind.

[Kazgrel]

If flying is just a mode of transportation and nothing more, then where's the harm in having it available once someone has completed things like Loremaster + Explorer for whatever expansion? The whole rep grind thing is just a way to drag the thing out; if you want people to do certain dailies/quests for a faction, have them hit each of those quests once to check them off or whatever.

Not to make this game vs. game, but in FF14's Heavensward, once we essentially complete that game's version of Loremaster + explore the areas to unlock the aether currents in each zone, that's it. We can fly from that point onward (in that particular zone). Were they to take the Blizzard approach, we'd complete each of those only to maybe someday in the undetermined future be able to fly around. It the whole ass dragging they (Blizzard) are doing that has people irked still.

[Jaylock]

They get to design ground content without considering the presence of flight. They get everyone who wants flight to approach the content in the manner they dictate. They get players to spend longer consuming content. They get players who want flight to consume more of the content than they otherwise would because it's required to unlock flight.

I shouldn't even need to explain this by this point in the argument.



Oh FFS! really? REALLY? Lets just ignore flying that existed for nearly 8 years. Flying is more a part of what WoW is than non-flying. What a fucking joke.

I understand your frustration. I really do.

The developers have stated their reasons for holding off on flight during the initial stages of the expansion. Whether or not you agree with that, thats another thing. They said they specifically designed the quests, and outdoor world content with ground travel in mind. Thats not to say that they won't have anything that caters to flying type quests, like they did in TBC with the orgrilla and the sky serpent max level areas. If you recall, those areas were introduced sometime after the initial burning crusade launch.

For now however, ground travel is the intended way to play the game. You could argue that all its doing is artificially extending the content. Thats a valid viewpoint, but is that such a bad thing, even if that was the ONLY reason they "really" are making it a ground based game for now?

Now can I share my viewpoint from a ground based content perspective? There is a world quest in Aszuna that has me picking up 10 notes, and then killing a mini boss. Its north east of the illidari base camp area. There are mobs all around as the theme is banshee ghosts of night elves lurk these grounds. So because I can't fly, my thought process changes from simply collecting things and hitting the mini boss and done. So heres what I might think as I do the quest and I dont have flying available:

Grounded perspective:

1) Ride up to the quest area and assess the area for threats.
2) Find the most optimal way of collecting the 10 notes without having to engage with many mobs.
3) There might be a route to collect the 10 notes that i can either a) go the long way and kill no mobs but it might make me run around the perimeter of the area. b) I can do a straight path to the closest notes and kill any mobs that might be blocking the way, to eventually have 10 notes and be right at the ramp up to the mini boss.
4) Kill the mini boss

Now you can see, that if I chose to collect the notes on the outside of the area without engaging any mobs, it might have taken me longer to do the collection part of the quest, but the benefit was I didn't have to engage with mobs, but that might mean that in order for me to get to the ramp up to the mini boss, i might have to engage some mobs and fight them. If I decided to go straight to collect the notes regardless of mob position, i can do a straight line to the ramp up to the mini boss, but I have to fight some mobs on the way. It might be even MORE efficient for me to collect the notes that way, then just run up to the mini boss and complete the quest.

Flying perspective:

1) Fly to each note avoiding any mobs where possible even if the note is further way from the main note area, simply because I can fly and its more efficient than running through mobs and killing them next to notes.
2) After collecting 10 notes, fly up to mini boss, kill and fly away.

As you can see, from a thought and gameplay perspective, there is little by the way of the player actually being strategic, or choice. There is essentially no choice. You do whats most efficient. On the ground, you do whats most efficient as well, but in that scenario there is more compelling and engaging gameplay even if the whole thought process might be miliseconds in our minds, we are still making strategic decisions more so than we would with the ability to fly. Sure they could add anti-air cannons, or birds that aggro and dismount you or slow you, but how aggravating would that be? The pro-fliers would then complain that there are too many obstacles and unnecessary anti flight measures (as people did even in TBC with the flak cannons in the orgrilla areas).

My point is, it doesn't matter that you don't agree with how blizzard is approaching flight this expansion. They feel that pathfinder is a good middle ground to give players a great experience, and play the game with all their design decisions in mind. You will get flying eventually, and if you still disagree with their approach, why put so much effort into fighting a losing battle?

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Travel gets me to the content I plan to do faster. It does not let me finish it faster as I cannot complete it while flying. I know you are smart enough to know the difference.

Travel and getting to where you want to go faster is not a problem and especialy so come max level and beyond when you have seen the land. Beat those now worthless mobs a number of times to the point they are outleveled and no longer needed. Travel shoudl get players to where they want to go sooner at max level when the grind of the game starts.

I find it interesting that after all this time you cannot see the difference in travel and actually doing the content that got you out in the world to start with. I sure as hell don't go out to beat up some worthless garbage mobs again and again and again as if that still had any entertainment value.




That will not happen till blizzard puts in a better system than what they have now and the mysterious, "mid expansion" bullshit.



I prefer to make sure it's known on a wow forum that I dislike how blizzard has handled pathfinder in how it can be completed. Pathfinder is not so bad IF it was actually all in the game and you could complete it at when the expansion came out. But that is not the case so it loses any chance of being accepted as an alternative because we have no idea when it can actually be completed and thats a problem.

blizzard can sit back and do nothing if they so choose as I have chosen to not given them the money they once had and until the do a better job with getting flying back in the game. That is how it will be from now own.

Oh, I still need that beach front property in Arizona if you don't mind.

You bring up "faster" as the reason you want flying, if thats the case then Blizzard has implemented measures to make sure its fast to get in between world quests. Its called a flight-path wistle. It instant teleports you to the nearest flight path so you can get to and from areas quicker. Flight paths in legion are actually faster than epic flight, so even if flight was available, people would still be using the whistle to get around.

Furthermore to your argument that you outlevel the mobs? Yeah thats invalid, you never will out level the mobs in Legion, as they dynamically increase in level as you increase in level. So all areas of the world are considered max level content areas.

Finally, get with the times man. Most people have accepted the pathfinder compromise. Blizzard is not backing out of their methodology going forward.

[SirCowdog]

I understand your frustration. I really do.

The developers have stated their reasons for holding off on flight during the initial stages of the expansion. Whether or not you agree with that, thats another thing. They said they specifically designed the quests, and outdoor world content with ground travel in mind. Thats not to say that they won't have anything that caters to flying type quests, like they did in TBC with the orgrilla and the sky serpent max level areas. If you recall, those areas were introduced sometime after the initial burning crusade launch.

If they had such plans, then why aren't they reassuring players that these types of things are coming? Why stay so close-mouthed and stonewalled about anything to do with flying? They seem perfectly able to communicate other types of content, such as their plans for raid tiers, and their plan for flying to be available "about midway through the expansion".

It's clear they have plans. And the most likely reason they're staying so silent about flying is because they have no real plans to include it. That doesn't mean they can't change their mind, or that there aren't other possibilities. Only that it's the most likely, given their past behavior and handling of flying in WoD.

For now however, ground travel is the intended way to play the game. You could argue that all its doing is artificially extending the content. Thats a valid viewpoint, but is that such a bad thing, even if that was the ONLY reason they "really" are making it a ground based game for now?

How many times have I promoted mixed flying and no-flying zones and areas? I have NOTHING against challenges that are designed to be approach from the ground. What I do have a problem with is the idea that it's the ONLY way that content can be good. Or that there are no way for flying to be incorporated into challenging or interesting content.

Your example of how flying players approach content is only valid when the content is designed to ignore the presence of flight. How many different methods of creating hazards for flying players have been suggested in this thread alone, much less the previous megathread, or the countless capped threads on the official forums? All the problems that flying supposedly creates only happen when people take an overly simplistic and unimaginative view of quest and content design. It's complete and utter bullshit which only makes sense when people are unable to think outside of the tiny box that Blizzard presents.

[GoKs]

I understand your frustration. I really do.

The developers have stated their reasons for holding off on flight during the initial stages of the expansion. Whether or not you agree with that, thats another thing. They said they specifically designed the quests, and outdoor world content with ground travel in mind. Thats not to say that they won't have anything that caters to flying type quests, like they did in TBC with the orgrilla and the sky serpent max level areas. If you recall, those areas were introduced sometime after the initial burning crusade launch.

For now however, ground travel is the intended way to play the game. You could argue that all its doing is artificially extending the content. Thats a valid viewpoint, but is that such a bad thing, even if that was the ONLY reason they "really" are making it a ground based game for now?

Now can I share my viewpoint from a ground based content perspective? There is a world quest in Aszuna that has me picking up 10 notes, and then killing a mini boss. Its north east of the illidari base camp area. There are mobs all around as the theme is banshee ghosts of night elves lurk these grounds. So because I can't fly, my thought process changes from simply collecting things and hitting the mini boss and done. So heres what I might think as I do the quest and I dont have flying available:

Grounded perspective:

1) Ride up to the quest area and assess the area for threats.
2) Find the most optimal way of collecting the 10 notes without having to engage with many mobs.
3) There might be a route to collect the 10 notes that i can either a) go the long way and kill no mobs but it might make me run around the perimeter of the area. b) I can do a straight path to the closest notes and kill any mobs that might be blocking the way, to eventually have 10 notes and be right at the ramp up to the mini boss.
4) Kill the mini boss

Now you can see, that if I chose to collect the notes on the outside of the area without engaging any mobs, it might have taken me longer to do the collection part of the quest, but the benefit was I didn't have to engage with mobs, but that might mean that in order for me to get to the ramp up to the mini boss, i might have to engage some mobs and fight them. If I decided to go straight to collect the notes regardless of mob position, i can do a straight line to the ramp up to the mini boss, but I have to fight some mobs on the way. It might be even MORE efficient for me to collect the notes that way, then just run up to the mini boss and complete the quest.

Flying perspective:

1) Fly to each note avoiding any mobs where possible even if the note is further way from the main note area, simply because I can fly and its more efficient than running through mobs and killing them next to notes.
2) After collecting 10 notes, fly up to mini boss, kill and fly away.

As you can see, from a thought and gameplay perspective, there is little by the way of the player actually being strategic, or choice. There is essentially no choice. You do whats most efficient. On the ground, you do whats most efficient as well, but in that scenario there is more compelling and engaging gameplay even if the whole thought process might be miliseconds in our minds, we are still making strategic decisions more so than we would with the ability to fly. Sure they could add anti-air cannons, or birds that aggro and dismount you or slow you, but how aggravating would that be? The pro-fliers would then complain that there are too many obstacles and unnecessary anti flight measures (as people did even in TBC with the flak cannons in the orgrilla areas).

My point is, it doesn't matter that you don't agree with how blizzard is approaching flight this expansion. They feel that pathfinder is a good middle ground to give players a great experience, and play the game with all their design decisions in mind. You will get flying eventually, and if you still disagree with their approach, why put so much effort into fighting a losing battle?

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You bring up "faster" as the reason you want flying, if thats the case then Blizzard has implemented measures to make sure its fast to get in between world quests. Its called a flight-path wistle. It instant teleports you to the nearest flight path so you can get to and from areas quicker. Flight paths in legion are actually faster than epic flight, so even if flight was available, people would still be using the whistle to get around.

Furthermore to your argument that you outlevel the mobs? Yeah thats invalid, you never will out level the mobs in Legion, as they dynamically increase in level as you increase in level. So all areas of the world are considered max level content areas.

Finally, get with the times man. Most people have accepted the pathfinder compromise. Blizzard is not backing out of their methodology going forward.

Well it is nice to hear you actually have a thought process for that mission or even other missions, but not every one does put that much thought into it. I for example just pull everything and kill it, then loot the papers, because the range of aggro in this expac is fucking retarded in anyway, so might just as well kill the mobs and get it done with. Even if I had flight I would still have to kill those mobs, just not the whole bloomin Aszuna on my way there. You are also correct about the out leveling of the mobs, but you certainly out ilvl them, and I guess that is what he meant.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I mean unless your trying to say they compromised on no flight ever into pathfinding and now after that you have moved the goal posts and claim that new position as now not compromising and masking it under the disguise of the same deal. That sounds rather hypocritical.

[Codenamespades]

I don't know if I have the constitution to read 4000 pages of flying discussion where the same thing is said for months

Therefore, RUNNING AWAY NOW...

*scorpion grab* GET OVER HERE!!!

[GoKs]

I mean unless your trying to say they compromised on no flight ever into pathfinding and now after that you have moved the goal posts and claim that new position as now not compromising and masking it under the disguise of the same deal. That sounds rather hypocritical.

The thing is, if they designed the game like they did in the past, then sure the compromise would be awesome. Little Jonny would not feel bad because little Timmy beat him to the mob he needed to kill or the herb he wanted to gather or the node he wanted to mine since little Timmy flew there and little Jonny wanted to walk there or use his ground mount. But they changed all that so now little Timmy dont steal any mobs or herbs or nodes from little Jonnyy because they are all still there where little Jonny saw themand he can get there on his own time with his feet/mount. Little Timmy also experience the content, just like little Jonny but he does so on his terms, as he enjoys it the most, but now little Timmy dont have a choice anymore and is forced to play like little Jonny enjoys the game the most. So one player can enjoy the game as they chose but not the other?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The thing is, if they designed the game like they did in the past, then sure the compromise would be awesome. Little Jonny would not feel bad because little Timmy beat him to the mob he needed to kill or the herb he wanted to gather or the node he wanted to mine since little Timmy flew there and little Jonny wanted to walk there or use his ground mount. But they changed all that so now little Timmy dont steal any mobs or herbs or nodes from little Jonnyy because they are all still there where little Jonny saw themand he can get there on his own time with his feet/mount. Little Timmy also experience the content, just like little Jonny but he does so on his terms, as he enjoys it the most, but now little Timmy dont have a choice anymore and is forced to play like little Jonny enjoys the game the most. So one player can enjoy the game as they chose but not the other?

But both are really at the mercy of little Tommy aka Blizzard. To tell you the truth if they broke with the comprimse I wouldn't be hurt or betrayed because at the end of the day they are doing what they want with their property and that would be that. But the fact they made the choice to find a point between the two and meet their instead of merely involking their iron will allows me to respect them and their position a lot more. But then again I don't try to prove my points with little Timmy and little Jimmy things to belittle others points of few on something as simple as a video game. It kinda shows a level of maturity that I guess it takes to work with in confines of a compromise instead of whining about it not always being my way.

[CaptainV]

Finally, get with the times man. Most people have accepted the pathfinder compromise. Blizzard is not backing out of their methodology going forward.

Its a Jaylock post, so ill bite.


Heres my reply to that:

Remember how Everyone said blizzard wouldnt change 40 man raiding?

Remember how Everyone said blizzard wouldnt change 25 man raiding?

Remember when there were only 2 difficulties of raiding?

Remember when we had to actually buy mounts, keep them in our inventories, and earn the skill on every character, by going to a skill vendor?

The irony is that you think that the change wont continue, oh but you're so wrong. Convinence is the biggest selling point of blizzards franchise and the moment blizzard realises a majority of players favor convinence over a lack of it, they'll cave, make flying available in the next expansion as soon as you complete pathfinder, and be done with it.

Basically, dont expect the grounded thing to last, because a *large* majority of the playerbase, isnt keen on it, after all, Warlords of Draenor was *so* attractive as a *grounded* expansion, do you really think blizzard is going to make that mistake twice?

Hell no, 7.2 Probably gonna get flying be done with it, and the whiners can quit leaving the majority of us content.

[Jaylock]

Your example of how flying players approach content is only valid when the content is designed to ignore the presence of flight. How many different methods of creating hazards for flying players have been suggested in this thread alone, much less the previous megathread, or the countless capped threads on the official forums? All the problems that flying supposedly creates only happen when people take an overly simplistic and unimaginative view of quest and content design. It's complete and utter bullshit which only makes sense when people are unable to think outside of the tiny box that Blizzard presents.

But what kinds of problems would players bring to the developers if there were anti-aircraft type measures in place? Do you not think that there would be players upset that they are being shot down or slowed or any other number of obstacles that you and other people presented? Where is the line between annoying, and satisfying gameplay?

My argument is that people who use flight do so because its the most efficient way of completing tasks/quests in the game that have any sort of travel requirement attached to it. Because of this, i'd argue that if you add anti-air obstacles, they will just be looked at as annoyances that would produce outcry (just like the cannons in orgrilla produced) and then blizzard would have yet another band of angry pro-flight (and anti-flight) players who would lobby to get the anti-air obstacles reduced or removed. Then we are back to square 1. Flight without restrictions. And I think thats a bad approach to the game.

Feel free to disagree, but it seems like Blizzard understands this and is part of the reason for delayed flight.

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Well it is nice to hear you actually have a thought process for that mission or even other missions, but not every one does put that much thought into it. I for example just pull everything and kill it, then loot the papers, because the range of aggro in this expac is fucking retarded in anyway, so might just as well kill the mobs and get it done with. Even if I had flight I would still have to kill those mobs, just not the whole bloomin Aszuna on my way there. You are also correct about the out leveling of the mobs, but you certainly out ilvl them, and I guess that is what he meant.

And thats a valid way to approach that quest. If you are a tank, that might be the best way to handle the quest, but for a dps, and especially dps who haven't increased the power of their gear, it makes for very compelling decisions to be made as opposed to swoop down, loot paper, fly back up, kill mini boss, fly away.

[Dhrizzle]

If they had such plans, then why aren't they reassuring players that these types of things are coming? Why stay so close-mouthed and stonewalled about anything to do with flying? They seem perfectly able to communicate other types of content, such as their plans for raid tiers, and their plan for flying to be available "about midway through the expansion".

Really? What plans have they revealed for future raids - do we know all the release dates and the names of all the bosses we'll need to down to complete them?

It's clear they have plans. And the most likely reason they're staying so silent about flying is because they have no real plans to include it. That doesn't mean they can't change their mind, or that there aren't other possibilities. Only that it's the most likely, given their past behavior and handling of flying in WoD.

If you'd been following the flying issue and paying attention you'd realise it's very unlikely that Blizz would not release flight at all during Legion. The lessons they learned from WoD is that whilst player are (for the most part) content to wait until later in the expansion for flying they will not (for the most part) be happy if it doesn't turn up at all.

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The thing is, if they designed the game like they did in the past, then sure the compromise would be awesome. Little Jonny would not feel bad because little Timmy beat him to the mob he needed to kill or the herb he wanted to gather or the node he wanted to mine since little Timmy flew there and little Jonny wanted to walk there or use his ground mount. But they changed all that so now little Timmy dont steal any mobs or herbs or nodes from little Jonnyy because they are all still there where little Jonny saw themand he can get there on his own time with his feet/mount. Little Timmy also experience the content, just like little Jonny but he does so on his terms, as he enjoys it the most, but now little Timmy dont have a choice anymore and is forced to play like little Jonny enjoys the game the most. So one player can enjoy the game as they chose but not the other?

The thing is Timmy, Blizzard have to decide if they want to balance the content around the way you play or the way your friend Jonny plays. If they balance around you then Jonny finds it takes a lot longer to progress his character than Blizzard desire. If they balance around Jonny then you find yourself running out of content too quickly.

Also there's a thing called "opportunity costs," when Jonny is playing he is aware that there's a button on his UI that can make the game much easier and allow him to progress much quicker. This makes the game less enjoyable because he knows that he could be making more progress on his character if he used flight. That's why Blizz make the game a level playing field by restricting everyone to ground mounts.

[-Joker-]

Did you even read the whole post? I even quoted my previous post to why I think he is wrong. Most players are playing the game, but it is not to say they are happy with the no flying, it just means that it is not yet annoying enough to make them quit. The numbers (even opinion) does not say they are happy with it.

It also doesn't say they are unhappy with it. Without facts and figures from Blizz, this is all speculation and opinion.

[Mafic]

The only acceptable compromise was Loremaster + Explorer + Treasures. Everything else does come across as some kind of player punishment borne out of dev bitterness. Even if that's not accurate, it's certainly the impression I've gotten since WoD.

Attachment of raiding to complete part 1 shows there is no goodwill intention or compromise.

The vast majority of the players in this game do not raid.

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The thing is, if they designed the game like they did in the past, then sure the compromise would be awesome. Little Jonny would not feel bad because little Timmy beat him to the mob he needed to kill or the herb he wanted to gather or the node he wanted to mine since little Timmy flew there and little Jonny wanted to walk there or use his ground mount. But they changed all that so now little Timmy dont steal any mobs or herbs or nodes from little Jonnyy because they are all still there where little Jonny saw themand he can get there on his own time with his feet/mount. Little Timmy also experience the content, just like little Jonny but he does so on his terms, as he enjoys it the most, but now little Timmy dont have a choice anymore and is forced to play like little Jonny enjoys the game the most. So one player can enjoy the game as they chose but not the other?

Exactly.

The game has changed, and the ground utopia they were pushing in WoD and Legion failed. The truth is that flying is too important to alt progression and gathering professions and archaeology/fishing. Without flying, they turn non raiding activities into a chore. Burn out accelerates which means less people in their instanced queue system.