No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[TyrianFC]

I doubt Blizzard would have changed their tune unless something drastic happened

And I doubt Blizzard wouldve withheld flight (such as now) and repeated Pathfinder (again, for legion) iif sub loss was actually a genuine factor to consider.

Aka - its not a factor, and thats why they've withheld flight again. Much to the delight of many.

[-Joker-]

Removing flight contributed to the biggest downfall in wow subs ever

Any proof of THIS? I was unaware you work for Blizz and have access to all of the exit interviews for unsubbing. We all know bad content, or pure lack of content is a primary driver to rid an MMO of its patrons. You should probably stop stretching the truth. It hurts your credibility.

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Uhm the VAST majority of players does not even read the forums never the less post in them, so where did you dig this out? Even blizz stated that.

I pulled it from the truth pile. I am glad to have you agree that most players won't come to post, which implies they are not bothered by the game. Those who are simply unsub and walk away and only Blizz knows why.

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Yea look at sub numbers a month into the first expansion without flight

#proof

Yeah, cause a content patch that brought us SELFIES had nothing to do with the lack of interest in WoD. Do you just make this up as you go, or do you actually believe the stuff you type?

[Deadite]

The proof is in the pudding. 10.1M players at the start of Legion according to Tom Chilton in the Gamescom interview, yet 10 or fewer people are actually upset enough to visit a forum about it. Seems to me the pro-flight extremists are just dismissing any logical statements that don't mesh with their narrative.

Yeah Blizzard already publicly said that was wrong. You know what else Blizzard have said? Not many people visit forums. Now i have no clue how many people are for or against but saying that 10 people on forum are all that want flying while implying the other millions don't want it is fucking ridiculous. Holy shit you would win a gold medal in mental gymnastics at the next olympics.

[-Joker-]

I tend to believe this.

Wow. I gave you more credit than that.

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Yeah Blizzard already publicly said that was wrong. You know what else Blizzard have said? Not many people visit forums. Now i have no clue how many people are for or against but saying that 10 people on forum are all that want flying while implying the other millions don't want it is fucking ridiculous. Holy shit you would win a gold medal in mental gymnastics at the next olympics.

Normal people who are dissatisfied with a game simply unsub and walk away. People who make a topic their sole purpose for playing a game usually have some questionable qualities about them. As for your personal attack, it is off topic.

[Thimagryn]

Wow. I gave you more credit than that.

Like I said, I was there and making arguments in defense of Blizzard and no-flight, making the same 'They aren't gonna change the game just because you don't like their decision' arguments.

And then weeks after their announcement, they retracted it completely and added Pathfinder. I don't think it's by virtue of their own kindness that they did it.

If you weren't there to witness it firsthand and only reading from 'historic data', I can see how this perspective can be lost on you.

[Jaylock]

You can protest all you want, but the truth is players are choosing to do world quests closest to flight paths to utilize the flight whistle. That is the depth of the thinking involved in Legion game design...right up there with Celestsalon pruning classes to be played on tablets.

The depth of the game used to matter more in BC/WoTLK when you had to complete quests for rep rewards and how you would accomplish this with known factors like badge system. Legion is RNG skinner box and thus even then players are still opting out and going to quests near the flight paths.

WoW devs have waived the white flag by allowing flight whistle for alts knowing this full well that their internal metrics of no flying world and world quest consumption habits foreshadowed a seriously grim reality.

No flying forces players to be more selective with content as WoD and Legion showed. It is not that there wasn't content in WoD or Legion...it is the opportunities costs (reward vs time) that are out of scale.

Players choose what best benefits them at that point in time. If i see a large amount of AP in a location that isnt "next to a flight path" I go out and do that world quest. Decisions are swayed by what's available to the player at that time.

In your scenario you think that just because players cant fly to that huge amount of AP, they just don't go there and do the 4 closest quests, which is what I am saying is bullshit. You don't speak for even a small minority of players, let alone a majority buddy. But, why should I expect anything less from a guy who finds fault in almost every aspect of WoW design now @Mafic?

I think you are just jaded and the game isn't what you are looking for anymore bud. Might want to move on from your ex-girlfriend.

[-Joker-]

Like I said, I was there and making arguments in defense of Blizzard and no-flight, making the same 'They aren't gonna change the game just because you don't like their decision' arguments.

And then weeks after their announcement, they retracted it completely and added Pathfinder. I don't think it's by virtue of their own kindness that they did it.

If you weren't there to witness it firsthand and only reading from 'historic data', I can see how this perspective can be lost on you.

I was there. I never unsubbed during WoD. As a casual, I was doing Archaeology, Pet Battles, Missions, leveling garrisons, gathering, fishing, crafting, playing the AH, and working on my achievements. When Pathfinder came available, I needed one rep to raise from Revered to exalted and bam, I had flight 3 hours after the patch went live.

Unlike those who were unsubbed, or did not purchase WoD, but came here to complain about it, I was live and watching it happen. Blizz gave us a dozen different appeasements INCLUDING pathfinder. Lack of flight was not the primary factor, otherwise flight would have showed up long before 6.2.2. So many people grasping at straws. Must be a challenge to figure out what actually happened, and how it was experienced by those of us who were logged in and playing at the time.

[Deadite]

Normal people who are dissatisfied with a game simply unsub and walk away. People who make a topic their sole purpose for playing a game usually have some questionable qualities about them. As for your personal attack, it is off topic.

You are the one that thinks how many people on this forum complain about no flying is a metric for the whole player base. Most of the player base don't visit web sites about the game. So when they leave we don't know if they are for or against flying.

[Thimagryn]

Unlike those who were unsubbed, or did not purchase WoD, but came here to complain about it, I was live and watching it happen. Blizz gave us a dozen different appeasements INCLUDING pathfinder. Lack of flight was not the primary factor, otherwise flight would have showed up long before 6.2.2. So many people grasping at straws. Must be a challenge to figure out what actually happened, and how it was experienced by those of us who were logged in and playing at the time.

it's good to know WoW will have players who will sub regardless of what the content they put in, as little as it may be. Unfortunately, if everyone were to play that way, WoW could very well go into 'maintenance mode' with no new content. The Legacy crowd seems perfectly fine with that concept.

I'm legitimately happy that people complained about WoD and its lack of content. The results show in Legion having corrected many of its mistakes. Had everyone just brushed it off as 'there's still stuff to do, no reason to complain', we could easily have gotten another WoD, with fewer resources put in it than there are now. Blizzard actively added more resources to Legion's development and abandoned their 1-yr expansion ideas because they realized it wasn't working for them. The catalyst for change only comes when people are outwardly unsatisfied.

Flight didn't show up before 6.22 because of their development process. Even turning a decision like no-flight could take months to re-implement since it has to go through numerous meetings, internal testing, even corporate approval. Even if it's an easy patch, it can't just be added in without going through all the systems. They've communicated this process before, especially when people are asking for simple bug fixes that get overlooked. Priority takes precedence and like you said, flight is low on Blizzard's development/patch priority. This does not equate to being low priority for players.

[-Joker-]

You are the one that thinks how many people on this forum complain about no flying is a metric for the whole player base. Most of the player base don't visit web sites about the game. So when they leave we don't know if they are for or against flying.

You have captured the essence of what I have been saying is wrong about the pro-flight extremist point of view. Doesn't matter which of them it is. They make a generalization and use opinion as fact when we both know that only Blizz will ever know:

- why players left Cata
- why players left MoP
- why players left WoD
and of those
- how many players actually used lack of flight as their reason

So sitting here and claiming no flying is bad for the game and is the video game equivalent of Armageddon is really just sensationalism and hyperbole at its best.

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it's good to know WoW will have players who will sub regardless of what the content they put in, as little as it may be. Unfortunately, if everyone were to play that way, WoW could very well go into 'maintenance mode' with no new content. The Legacy crowd seems perfectly fine with that concept.

I'm legitimately happy that people complained about WoD and its lack of content. The results show in Legion having corrected many of its mistakes. Had everyone just brushed it off as 'there's still stuff to do, no reason to complain', we could easily have gotten another WoD, with fewer resources put in it than there are now. Blizzard actively added more resources to Legion's development and abandoned their 1-yr expansion ideas because they realized it wasn't working for them. The catalyst for change only comes when people are outwardly unsatisfied.

Flight didn't show up before 6.22 because of their development process. Even turning a decision like no-flight could take months to re-implement since it has to go through numerous meetings, internal testing, even corporate approval. Even if it's an easy patch, it can't just be added in without going through all the systems. They've communicated this process before, especially when people are asking for simple bug fixes that get overlooked. Priority takes precedence and like you said, flight is low on Blizzard's development/patch priority. This does not equate to being low priority for players.

It's players like me that pay for new content. People who swallow content whole and unsub til the next patch are what is wrong with this game. Even worse are those who never paid for the expac, or a sub, and continue to trash it from a hyperbolic standpoint since they have no relevant experience with the newest content. I am happy people unsubbed with 6.2 as well. It forced Blizz to wake up and realize the lack of content, apexis grind, and World of Garrisoncraft isolated a lot of players and discouraged them.

As for what is important to players, we'll never officially know since only Blizz can poll actual players, but your statement is an interesting one, so I am off to build a thread and a poll.

[Thimagryn]

It's players like me that pay for new content. People who swallow content whole and unsub til the next patch are what is wrong with this game. Even worse are those who never paid for the expac, or a sub, and continue to trash it from a hyperbolic standpoint since they have no relevant experience with the newest content. I am happy people unsubbed with 6.2 as well. It forced Blizz to wake up and realize the lack of content, apexis grind, and World of Garrisoncraft isolated a lot of players and discouraged them.

I might need some clarification because it literally sounds like a contradiction here.

You say people who sub-for-content/unsub-when-there-isn't are a problem. But you're happy that they unsubbed because it made Blizzard react to the lack of content. They are a problem yet you are happy that they are a problem? Am I missing something here?

[-Joker-]

I might need some clarification because it literally sounds like a contradiction here.

You say people who sub-for-content/unsub-when-there-isn't are a problem. But you're happy that they unsubbed because it made Blizzard react to the lack of content. They are a problem yet you are happy that they are a problem? Am I missing something here?

People who SPEED CONSUME good content and unsub are the problem.

People who unsub because the content is bad or lacking and wishes to see it improved are just fine.

[oraz4000]

Think it was a big mistake not allowing flying it could of eased the grind and transition of alts.

[Thimagryn]

People who SPEED CONSUME good content and unsub are the problem.

People who unsub because the content is bad or lacking and wishes to see it improved are just fine.

Why would they be different? They are one and the same. I don't believe there is mutual exclusivity between people who speed consume content and those who perceive content as bad or lacking. If anything, those who speed consume are simply the ones who can recognize 'bad' or lacking content sooner than those who come into that realization over a longer period of time. The amount of content remains the same, mind you. If we're talking about people playing the same game, then the content will be either good or bad regardless of how fast anyone actually does it.

Content is and always has been gated. That is the reason why continuation of subs exists. You can only raid once a week and get only so many drops in that duration. You can farm only so much rep per day. If there isn't enough content to keep subs as quickly as it is consumed, then that tells me there isn't enough (relative) content to keep people interested. To me, that brings pacing and gating into question. Blizzard can't create content fast enough for people to consume, but that doesn't excuse a general lack of content (ie 1yr deadzones).

[quras]

And I doubt Blizzard wouldve withheld flight (such as now) and repeated Pathfinder (again, for legion) iif sub loss was actually a genuine factor to consider.

Aka - its not a factor, and thats why they've withheld flight again. Much to the delight of many.

The difference being, flight this time around is a carrot on a stick VS WoD where they said flight would not be back. (along with flop flopping a few times later as well) blizzard used up all their BS cards and gamers left.

No flight was a very big deal and you can bet your ass sub loss contributed to it coming back as pathfinder.

You see, this time it's a carrot on a stick from the start and thats a big thing for gamers. Especially so when the carrot is something like flight that so many want. They can tolerate not having it for a while as they continue to chase the carrot but it does eventually get old should the carrot not actually be obtained.

You're not so ignorant to not see the difference from last time and why no flying hurt the game and made blizzard change their minds to what is going on now and just how different it is.

[Lane]

The proof is in the pudding. 10.1M players at the start of Legion according to Tom Chilton in the Gamescom interview, yet 10 or fewer people are actually upset enough to visit a forum about it. Seems to me the pro-flight extremists are just dismissing any logical statements that don't mesh with their narrative.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you somehow missed Blizzard issuing a statement denying that report. "This was a misquote, or some kind of misunderstanding on the part of the journalist," a rep said. "Our policy for almost a year now is that we do not talk about subscriber numbers, and Tom did not do that with this publication."

I understand that WoW fans wanted it to be true and, worse, that it fueled arguments such as these, but given the amount of subscriber loss in WoD combined with the sales of Legion that number didn't add up in the first place.

[satimy]

You have captured the essence of what I have been saying is wrong about the pro-flight extremist point of view. Doesn't matter which of them it is. They make a generalization and use opinion as fact when we both know that only Blizz will ever know:

- why players left Cata
- why players left MoP
- why players left WoD
and of those
- how many players actually used lack of flight as their reason

So sitting here and claiming no flying is bad for the game and is the video game equivalent of Armageddon is really just sensationalism and hyperbole at its best.

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It's players like me that pay for new content. People who swallow content whole and unsub til the next patch are what is wrong with this game. Even worse are those who never paid for the expac, or a sub, and continue to trash it from a hyperbolic standpoint since they have no relevant experience with the newest content. I am happy people unsubbed with 6.2 as well. It forced Blizz to wake up and realize the lack of content, apexis grind, and World of Garrisoncraft isolated a lot of players and discouraged them.

As for what is important to players, we'll never officially know since only Blizz can poll actual players, but your statement is an interesting one, so I am off to build a thread and a poll.

comparing people leaving cata, mop and wod are false equivalencies. Wod was an exodus

[Lei]

I was there. I never unsubbed during WoD. As a casual, I was doing Archaeology, Pet Battles, Missions, leveling garrisons, gathering, fishing, crafting, playing the AH, and working on my achievements. When Pathfinder came available, I needed one rep to raise from Revered to exalted and bam, I had flight 3 hours after the patch went live.

So. What you're basically saying is that you got flying when you completed basically all content on Draenor. Grats.
I remember when I got flying I was like FUCKYEAH, then I realized I finished everything in WoD and the bitter taste it caused didn't go away ever since. There was no place to fly to. Surely I flew couple of laps around Shadowmoon and Nagrand, checked out Auchindoun, but other than that? Oh yeah, took 2 pictures in the air in SMV of Invincible (finally got it), and the Azure Cloud Serpent.
I never thought about it but Blizz basically shoved whole WoD down on our throats from start to finish without giving us flying. When we finally got it, there were no further patches (the polygon article about 6.2 suggested there would be more content patches, as Ion had said "We have plenty more stories to tell" when the interviewer asked him about further WoD patches), and 6.2 was completed. Meh.

Slightly offtopic but seems like with 7.1 Blizz even had the time to nerf/break/fuckup (interpret as you wish) the water strider and basically nobody cares anymore...... It's too suspicious to be a bug tbh...

[Thra]

My water strider still works?

[Mafic]

Think it was a big mistake not allowing flying it could of eased the grind and transition of alts.

This is what we have been arguing. Legion would still throttle players with artifact knowledge gating, but you would still feel like you are progressing on alts by being able to do all world dalies, not the one in closest proximity to a flight path to utilize a flight whistle. Or even to use alts to work on professions or even archaeology.

Progress in a MMO doesn't have to be instant but it has to be consistent. Flying provides that level of consistency that is needed for a MMORPG.

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The difference being, flight this time around is a carrot on a stick VS WoD where they said flight would not be back. (along with flop flopping a few times later as well) blizzard used up all their BS cards and gamers left.

No flight was a very big deal and you can bet your ass sub loss contributed to it coming back as pathfinder.

You see, this time it's a carrot on a stick from the start and thats a big thing for gamers. Especially so when the carrot is something like flight that so many want. They can tolerate not having it for a while as they continue to chase the carrot but it does eventually get old should the carrot not actually be obtained.

You're not so ignorant to not see the difference from last time and why no flying hurt the game and made blizzard change their minds to what is going on now and just how different it is.

The WoW devs have left little leeway if they do not meet the mid expansion mark to deliver flying to Legion. And then the comparisons of the failed promise of epic flying quest chain to unlock flying in patch 6.1 will come back to the surface once more.

Seeing that many players are implying that flight should come with patch 7.2 shows that players are sensing that mid expansion is near and WoW devs are running out of time to meet that intended "deadline". Same thing happened when they announced all of sudden that flight would not happen in patch 6.1.