Queue vs Non-Queue Content

[Deleted]

If you want the rewards that are tied to mythic dungeons, then you will fucking put in the minimal effort of joining a group using the group finder tool. Pretty fucking simple if you ask me.

Well, that's your own personal opinion, and you're surely entitled to it.

Not everything needs to be catered to your whims of wanting a button to shower free loot on you. So yeah, some effort is required if you want all the benefits the game offers.

So... The "effort" you're talking about is in forming the group, and not at all playing the game. That makes absolutely no sense. I have no problem putting effort into the game. The actual game. We already have the dungeon finder. There's no reason why the profession quests can't be in dungeons that are available via the dungeon finder.

As for the gear from mythics, I have no problem with people getting higher level gear from there. On my warrior, I've done 1 heroic with 0 loot, 0 mythics, 1 LFR (Xavius, for the achievement), and I'm sitting on average ilvl 857. I have no need for mythics. I would like to do the profession quests though, as well as the quests to the two Suramar dungeons, but I'm not going anywhere near the group finder, because the game is full of, well, you know, certain kind of people who yell at others about how they don't deserve anything, and so on.

The "fuckton" of quests that you cant queue for only offers you access to other mythic dungeons, and artifact appearance skins, and rank 3 professions (ie not required for character power). And yeah, if you want "any sort of useful ilvl gear" then you have to put in the minimal effort to get it and not just expect it to be handed to you by the click of a button.

Well, again, all of this is just your own personal opinion, to which you're surely entitled, but which in the long run means absolutely nothing to me.

Classic example of entitlement at its finest.

OK. Again, your personal opinion, and you're surely entitled to it, even if it is a personal attack which was completely uncalled for. What I am not, however, is an elitist, and of that I am proud.

Man, I can't believe I am backing jaylock here but on this one he is right.

You're free to share his opinion. I think you're both wrong, so agree to disagree.

[Deleted]

i agree with jaylock here. But they can never change this, wow was created for a certain audience back in the day and this audience grew up, got jobs and families. And the game changed with them, they made sure those people who now have little time can see all the content. Because those people are the ones with the nostalgia and experience and they think thats their largest playerbase and it probably is.

They should just make wow 2 for a younger audience (people who dont have jobs yet), and make a game that, like vanilla, is about the experience. 4difficulties is just bad, and a sightseeing mode in lfr/lfd takes away all the excitement of doing a real dungeon.

[burzian]

i agree with jaylock here. But they can never change this, wow was created for a certain audience back in the day and this audience grew up, got jobs and families. And the game changed with them, they made sure those people who now have little time can see all the content. Because those people are the ones with the nostalgia and experience and they think thats their largest playerbase and it probably is.

They should just make wow 2 for a younger audience (people who dont have jobs yet), and make a game that, like vanilla, is about the experience. 4difficulties is just bad, and a sightseeing mode in lfr/lfd takes away all the excitement of doing a real dungeon.

I quit in Cata and when I came back as a really casual player (half-played MoP and WoD by leveling to the cap over a period of months and then doing LFR when I was super bored), I always thought the "LFR is ruining the game!" people were nutjob elitists. This expansion though, I've had some time to join a guild and clear heroic EN, and I am so incredibly glad I did all that before LFR got released. I also hate the idea of LFD Karazhan. It's all about perspective.

I like the idea of there being modes for people like that to see content even if they can't do organized raids. But they should really only be for that tourism purpose, and introducing them in a way where they're actually part of progression is bad for the game.

[Propainn]

Well, that's your own personal opinion, and you're surely entitled to it.



So... The "effort" you're talking about is in forming the group, and not at all playing the game. That makes absolutely no sense. I have no problem putting effort into the game. The actual game. We already have the dungeon finder. There's no reason why the profession quests can't be in dungeons that are available via the dungeon finder.

As for the gear from mythics, I have no problem with people getting higher level gear from there. On my warrior, I've done 1 heroic with 0 loot, 0 mythics, 1 LFR (Xavius, for the achievement), and I'm sitting on average ilvl 857. I have no need for mythics. I would like to do the profession quests though, as well as the quests to the two Suramar dungeons, but I'm not going anywhere near the group finder, because the game is full of, well, you know, certain kind of people who yell at others about how they don't deserve anything, and so on.



Well, again, all of this is just your own personal opinion, to which you're surely entitled, but which in the long run means absolutely nothing to me.



OK. Again, your personal opinion, and you're surely entitled to it, even if it is a personal attack which was completely uncalled for. What I am not, however, is an elitist, and of that I am proud.



You're free to share his opinion. I think you're both wrong, so agree to disagree.

Hate to break it to you Champ, but it's also very clearly Blizzard's opinion as well.

[pmkaboo]

#2 - people who want to queue because they can't be arsed dealing with manual group formation, but have no problem with wiping on harder content

i bet these are the same people who love solving integrals but cant be arsed with additions and subtractions.

[Deleted]

Hate to break it to you Champ, but it's also very clearly Blizzard's opinion as well.

Yeah, their direction of development is horrible right now. Opinions, you know.

[Propainn]

Yeah, their direction of development is horrible right now. Opinions, you know.

It's not though. Glad you're nowhere near the dev team.

[grandgato]

Talking to people and forming a group the old fashioned way, then traveling to the dungeon is the proper way to play. It's good to see the devs finally remembering their roots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

The only "proper" way to do X is by Y.

Hate to break it to you Champ, but it's also very clearly Blizzard's opinion as well.

So what? You act as though Blizzard has never changed their mind, multiple times, within a single expansion regarding their stances or policies on content. Take a look at LFR being introduced in 4.3 if you need further proof of that.

[Propainn]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

The only "proper" way to do X is by Y.



So what? You act as though Blizzard has never changed their mind, multiple times, within a single expansion regarding their stances or policies on content. Take a look at LFR being introduced in 4.3 if you need further proof of that.

Here's hoping they learned from previous mistakes. They seem to be more firm this time around, as seen with the Ornyx post when everyone was whining about not being able to collect essences in LFR.

[Mykk]

I decided to make a list of all current content that is queable, and another list of non-queable content.

Queable content:

• Emerald Nightmare Raid
• Nighthold Raid
• Trial of Valor Raid
• Blackrook Hold Dungeon
• Maw of Souls Dungeon
• Halls of Valor Dungeon
• Neth's Lair Dungeon
• Eye of Azshara Dungeon
• Darkheart Thicket Dungeon
• Vault of the Wardens Dungeon
• Assault on the Violet Hold Dungeon
• All Battlegrounds
• All Arenas

Non-Queable Content:

• Court of Stars Dungeon
• The Archway Dungeon
• Karazhan Dungeon

As you can see, the list of non-queable content is minuscule compared to everything that you can queue for.

I often see people claim that Blizzard is catering to the hardcore, and that subs are going to fall, and yadda yadda yadda because they are excluding casuals from seeing or experiencing the content. I think that is simply flat out wrong. If anything, this expansion is the most inclusive and caters most to the casual playerbase than any other expansion. If you include world quests, even more so. They are trying to promote more smaller group progression based activities because that's what casual players have been asking for, for years (including myself).

Blizzard finally delivers in great style on that more casual small group content request and to some players its not enough? The whole "if its not on a queue I won't participate" attitude needs to just stop (fuck off). NOW.

Let the MMO retain some aspects of being an MMO. If not, it might as well be mario brothers with several Marios and Luigis running around in a sandbox.

Just because you can't queu to something does not mean its hardcore content. Suramar dungeons and karazhan are easy dungeons. Karazhan was fun on first time after that i don't want to enter place ever again but i have to due stupid design of loots which are forcing me to go there.

[xpose]

You are talking about difficulty levels. You can still see the dungeon by clicking on a queue, with the exception of the 3 I listed.

You probably were not around for this, but back in WoTLK, Blizzard fucked up by making their heroic dungeon content piss easy. Basically 15 min zerg fests that required no skill, no thought, no real required coordination, which was almost a 180 from the TBC heroic dungeons. They corrected their fail in Cataclysm heroic dungeons, but since they had implemented the LFD queue tool, all the "wrath babies" cried and cried and cried and whined and complained that the heroic dungeons were "too hard" primarily because they were queueing with randoms who didn't know eachother and had no reason to coordinate because they thought Cata dungeons would be 15 min zerg fests like they were in WoTLK. When they realized that they weren't and they actually had to put thought and a little effort into playing, thats when they started crying.

So having said that, the primary reason why increased difficulties are NOT on a queue is because of that very problem. Content that is queable is tuned for people who just want to faceroll their way to loot, and therefore the ilvl isn't as high as content tuned for more coordination. Blizzard has made it easier than ever to coordinate and find like minded players to do the higher difficulty dungeons and raids than ever before. You no longer have to spam just the players on your own server. You can now spam the players on your own server, AND find players from ANY server in the group builder tool.

In short, Blizzard doesn't want to have entitled players lash out at them because the content in the queue tool is "too hard" and call for nerfs. The content that is non-queable is specifically designed for people who want more coordination, and therefore gives those players better rewards. Pretty simple concept to grasp i would think.

Although I basically agree with you, mythic dungeons are about as difficult as cata heroics were at the start. There's no real reason to have normal mythic dungeons not on the LFD screen since there is no real changes to the mechanics of the dungeons involved.

[Belloc]

Consider these two groups of people:

#1 - "wrath babies" who want to queue for easy content and will cry if they can't
#2 - people who want to queue because they can't be arsed dealing with manual group formation, but have no problem with wiping on harder content

If someone is willing to grind their faces off in hard content, then they should be willing to spend a few minutes manually organizing a group (which is now easier than it's ever been).

Harder content has barriers to entry. If you aren't willing to cross that barrier, then you don't get the content. It's not unlike an advanced job: Don't have the degree? Don't get the job.

You have to want it. If you want it badly enough, you'll make it happen. If you don't want it badly enough, then you'll let something like an easily organized group stop you from accessing it.

[pmkaboo]

Although I basically agree with you, mythic dungeons are about as difficult as cata heroics were at the start. There's no real reason to have normal mythic dungeons not on the LFD screen since there is no real changes to the mechanics of the dungeons involved.

try creating a pug with no requirements besides 825ilvl and then inviting the first 4 people that sign up (with 1/1/3 setup in mind obviously), when done try running a mythic dungeon with these people. done? cool, now take into consideration that such group is still miles ahead of a LFD group because these people made the extra effort to join a pug, and also there is someone in charge who they have to listen to if they dont want to be replaced.

[Jaylock]

Well, that's your own personal opinion, and you're surely entitled to it.



So... The "effort" you're talking about is in forming the group, and not at all playing the game. That makes absolutely no sense. I have no problem putting effort into the game. The actual game. We already have the dungeon finder. There's no reason why the profession quests can't be in dungeons that are available via the dungeon finder.

As for the gear from mythics, I have no problem with people getting higher level gear from there. On my warrior, I've done 1 heroic with 0 loot, 0 mythics, 1 LFR (Xavius, for the achievement), and I'm sitting on average ilvl 857. I have no need for mythics. I would like to do the profession quests though, as well as the quests to the two Suramar dungeons, but I'm not going anywhere near the group finder, because the game is full of, well, you know, certain kind of people who yell at others about how they don't deserve anything, and so on.



Well, again, all of this is just your own personal opinion, to which you're surely entitled, but which in the long run means absolutely nothing to me.



OK. Again, your personal opinion, and you're surely entitled to it, even if it is a personal attack which was completely uncalled for. What I am not, however, is an elitist, and of that I am proud.



You're free to share his opinion. I think you're both wrong, so agree to disagree.

So basically your whole post equates to sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la la la la I can't hear you la la la la la".

Your skewed view of the players in the group finder tool is whats clouding your judgement of those players. There are several players who are just wanting to experience the content, nothing more. So they are willing to put in the effort to find like minded players.

Can I ask an honest question? Why do you feel that players who use the group finder tool are just a bunch of elitist assholes all out with the objective to be a prick to players like yourself? I can assure you, that we are not as bad as you think we are. We love the game just like you and we like playing with other players. Just because you see some groups requesting higher ilvl than what you think is appropriate, it doesn't mean they are elitists or exclusionary, or any other term you might use.

- - - Updated - - -

Just because you can't queu to something does not mean its hardcore content. Suramar dungeons and karazhan are easy dungeons. Karazhan was fun on first time after that i don't want to enter place ever again but i have to due stupid design of loots which are forcing me to go there.

Forcing you to play the game to improve your character power??! Oh the horror! Why would Blizzard ever force us to play the game to get rewards?!?!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Although I basically agree with you, mythic dungeons are about as difficult as cata heroics were at the start. There's no real reason to have normal mythic dungeons not on the LFD screen since there is no real changes to the mechanics of the dungeons involved.

So it shouldn't be hard to find a group for it then yeah?

- - - Updated - - -

try creating a pug with no requirements besides 825ilvl and then inviting the first 4 people that sign up (with 1/1/3 setup in mind obviously), when done try running a mythic dungeon with these people. done? cool, now take into consideration that such group is still miles ahead of a LFD group because these people made the extra effort to join a pug, and also there is someone in charge who they have to listen to if they dont want to be replaced.

This.

The people who sign up for a dungeon in the group finder tool actually WANT to be there. More often than not, they are doing that particular mythic or mythic+ dungeon for a specific purpose. So they actually try to perform, as opposed to someone who might nonchalantly press the LFD button, wait 30 mins and get auto matched with 4 other people who did the same. Those players are more prone to let the rest of the group carry them, or perform sub-optimally, because "hey, who gives a shit, its LFD / LFR, i'll never be expected to perform well, or do my best, I can just be mediocre and the dungeon will still get done"

Attitude is everything, and I think thats another great reason why Mythic and Mythic+ dungeons are left off the LFD queue. Blizzard doesn't want players queing and realizing that they actually have to pay the fuck attention to stuff / their performance, and then cry to Blizz when things aren't as faceroll as they were hoping it would be.

[kary]

Although I basically agree with you, mythic dungeons are about as difficult as cata heroics were at the start. There's no real reason to have normal mythic dungeons not on the LFD screen since there is no real changes to the mechanics of the dungeons involved.

There is a reason. Cata heroics got nerfed. They don't want to nerf M0. So they aren't making it queueable.
making something queueable means that any mongoloid should be able to complete it. Mongoloids wipe in mythic 0.

[Traveler Voltin]

play a class or spec that is crap but want to run mythic?
enjoy being declined for hours.

[kary]

play a class or spec that is crap but want to run mythic?
enjoy being declined for hours.

Make your own group. Voila!

[Traveler Voltin]

Make your own group. Voila!

people join. see the crap class or spec you are playing then leave.
over and over for hours.

[Deadite]

Make your own group. Voila!

Yeah healers and tanks are just clambering over themselves to join low geared groups when they can get 3 860+ dps in 4 seconds.

[Etrock08]

Yeah healers and tanks are just clambering over themselves to join low geared groups when they can get 3 860+ dps in 4 seconds.

I dont know what servers you are on but this is not true one bit. An 860 dps is not gonna want anything to do with a 830-840 tank whos running m0 and m2. So guess what, you put up that 830-835 ilvl min req and you will get the tanks that are geared for your content because an 850-860 dps group for m3,4,5 will not take a tank that cant survive in those dungeons.