Leaving M+ punishment

[Tehr]

I think it's ridiculous that you can't just reset the dungeon and restart. Blizzard says that such resets would take away from the perceived difficulty of the dungeon, but I think that's just a cop-out. This game basically revolves around different ways to sink your time, and resetting a dungeon multiple times is just another way. It would only affect the people who are looking for a "perfect" run, as those who are just trying to finish the dungeon for their reward (i.e. doing their single M+10 for the week) wouldn't care about the efficiency of the run or lack of errors.

Look at Karazhan and the dungeon crawl to get Nightbane to spawn; players are MORE than willing to reset a dungeon in order to complete it within time, without regard for their lack of loot and time otherwise wasted.

[Meiffert]

For example, I believe, account wide ban for a week from m+ for people that manually leave m+ or are reported for bad behavior can significantly improve social environment of the game and make the World better place again.

Why do you assume that the leaving member is at fault? Maybe the other players in the groups were rude assholes or just trolls not actually doing the dungeon and waiting for you to leave?
The other night I was in a run that took almost two hours because the other players (3 of them from the same guild) were constantly afk. As in stopped moving, dying and not accepting ress for 10 minutes. We eventually finished the instance, but I can't see why a person leaving such a group should be punished.

It's hard to find a general solution because every situation is different, but sadly your solution makes as little sense as banning people for having someone else leave their group (based on the assumption that they are always at fault and cause them to leave). Either situation is possible and surely happens, but you can't be sure which one occurred unless you were there.

That being said it seems to me like you are making this a bigger issue than it needs to be. I only remember one group disbanding and that was a just a regular mythic dungeon, I don't think I had people leave in mythic+.
Granted I don't exactly spam them, but I run a couple every week and generally everything goes just fine.
Leaving a mythic+ run in the middle leaves you with no reward after all while you already spent half the required time to reach it. If people prefer to leave your group, find a new one and run an entire dungeon over finishing half of one with you, the situation must have been pretty dire.

[Narzok]

Whats the big deal about your key getting depleted?
I always run on other peoples keys, is there some special reward for using your key?

the problem is not that your key is special, the problem is that you have to run a "dungeon of shame" to remove the depleted status and level it further.
you lose an option. with a working key, it's either use your key, or find a random key, with depleted key, only the second option remains

[Zka]

Do we really need a new thread about punishing m+ deserters every fucking day?

[malgin]

HOTS devs made really good punishment for leavers. You leave ranked = u banned from it until you play several normal modes.

If someone leaves M+ he has to be punished. Period. Detention might be:

1. Running depleted dung with same difficulty for N times (if you're db and like drop groups often)
2. Banned from raid higher difficulty than LFR until you remove 'leaver debuff'

[Deleted]

Putting it as a visible thing would me absolutely great, that way the community can regulate themselves. Don't want to inv someone who's left 50 m+? Then the leader gets to decide. Desperate enough? Then invite.

[Meiffert]

If someone leaves M+ he has to be punished. Period.

Sounds good.
Next time I tank in a group with you, I will alt-tab to watch Netflix. You can sit in there with me for a few hours, or get banned from raiding.

[Deleted]

Sounds good.
Next time I tank in a group with you, I will alt-tab to watch Netflix. You can sit in there with me for a few hours, or get banned from raiding.

Situations like that rarely occur (probably never) but I mean situations when you really have to leave, baby pooped everywhere or you get an important call etc. So if it was just visible the amount of leaves you have it would still work. Say an average person would have between 1-5 M+ leaves they would still get invited. But 10, 20, 30 etc people be more sceptical.

[Sk3tz0]

It is annoying when you Pug a Shit group and someone leaves because they died while standing in fire and didnt get enough heals or what ever reason.

Week long ban from M+ would be fair in a perfect world. I just think they should disable the ability to leave the group during the time duration of said mythic+. if its an emergency to leave then leave and let ur toon get auto kicked for idling after the timer runs out. that way if they've fake an emergency they are still locked in the group when they return 5 mins later.

You people say don't pug some of us don't have any options. Guildies are offline aswell as friends. Some people dont even have 5 friends who are geared enough to run each role properly. unless they kids/ppl with plenty of free time i guess.

[rebecca191]

If they add a punishment for leaving, people who want to leave will either AFK or wipe the group on purpose.

[Sk3tz0]

If they add a punishment for leaving, people who want to leave will either AFK or wipe the group on purpose.

Some people are already doing that now. Some1 mentioned HotS ranking.. something like that might work..
I left a dungeon other day because i thought i Q'd for thicket and got Maw.. my bad i left I got the Dissertor 30min debuff i accepted it.. I don't see why if i leave a HC dungeon and get a 30min debuff why they can not put a debuff on ppl that leave a mythic +. Atleast if u get a person bailing on ur group in other dungeon difficuties u can get another.. But M+ someone leaves u fucked. thats unfair on everyone.

[Meiffert]

Situations like that rarely occur (probably never).

It might be rare now, but it won't be if you implement some of the proposed solutions.
Your idea is a lot milder of course, but it still has the same general issue.

This is a complex problem with many possible scenarios. Most people encountered one of those situations and they have a "clever" solution. I just want to point out that it would cause more harm than good.

If you add punishment for leaving, people won't leave, that's nice. They will instead afk, or intentionally wipe the group until they get what they want (a kick, which is just a punishment free leave).

What about when you do a +15 dungeon with some friends, you are maybe a bit undergeared, but you figure you might try it out. You get to the 2nd boss and you just can't kill it with your ilvl. You wipe 12 times, all happily agree to give up and try another players +6 key instead, no problem here.
Except now one of you have to leave first and get banned. Wonderful. (Or get +1 to their leave counter or whatever other punishment you have in mind.)

The point is that you can't add a serious punishment to leavers for the very simple reason that there are perfectly legitimate reasons for leaving.
There is a punishment for leaving some queued content and that is already slightly problematic, but it's mostly fine, because the punishment is very mild and specifically targeted to prevent only one exact scenario (leaving and immediately joining another group).

Atleast if u get a person bailing on ur group in other dungeon difficuties u can get another.. But M+ someone leaves u fucked. thats unfair on everyone.

The difference is that you don't queue for mythic+. You know what dungeon you are entering and what players are in your group. That's why there doesn't need to be a protection against bad players or the possibility to replace them.

[SirCowdog]

According to the largest study ever conducted on personality disorders (PD) by the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH), 5.9% of the U.S. population has BPD (Grant et al. 2008) and 6.2% has NPD (Stinson et al. 2008). As some people fit both diagnoses, about 10 percent of the U.S. population has BPD and/or NPD.

Only BPD and NPD are 10% of the population of USA and there are many other disorders which mean you inevitably meet a lot of assholes in the game.

As those people mostly care only about themselves introducing personal punishment (event light) could significantly correct their behavior in the game.

For example, I believe, account wide ban for a week from m+ for people that manually leave m+ or are reported for bad behavior can significantly improve social environment of the game and make the World better place again.

Any other ideas?
/discuss

UPD: Actually I think better solution would be is to provide more information for PUG leader about people that want to join:

- like how many m+ PUG groups they MANUALLY left recently
- What they typed in PUG group chats recently (especially before they left and in failed PUG groups)
- possibility to inspect person in-game before an invite
- maybe something else

Some form of DOTA2's low priority queue system would work. Although since Mythic+ isn't in the matchmaking system there would need to be some other way to apply the debuff to the account. Maybe flag a person's name in the LFG listing? It wouldn't prevent them from using the LFG tool, or forming their own groups, or even from joining groups. It would just let people know that they've recently quit enough runs to flag them as a high-risk group-member.

Once a person completes enough runs the flag goes away, and they're back to normal.

[Flurryfang]

Hmm i really think that one of the possible fixes to having people leave a mythic+ group should be that there is more reward in igniting a depleated keystone. Right now, nobody wants to help reignite it, because it gives no progress.

Make it better and more rewarding to do depleated key runs and people won't find it super punishing to have a leaver in their groups. The perfect situation would be, that if you have a leaver, you can just go out, find a new player and start from the beginning. It might hurt to lose a player halfway in, but its the best you can get from a feature which has a timer.

- - - Updated - - -

True story here, sometimes just for kicks, after I completed all 10 normal mythic dungeons, ill queue up for another of the same, and leave after the first boss.

I'm not proud of it, but sometimes I get some good whispers after I leave, which is what amuses me.

Sometimes i forget why you are so disliked on these forums m8... Undtil you come up and say something like this.

This is openly ruinning someones day, which is psykotic to say the least.

I don't in anyway condone what you are doing m8 and i hope that you stop your actions for the better of the game.

[Deleted]

-snip-
For example, I believe, account wide ban for a week from m+ for people that manually leave m+ or are reported for bad behavior can significantly improve social environment of the game and make the World better place again.

Any other ideas?
/discuss

UPD: Actually I think better solution would be is to provide more information for PUG leader about people that want to join:

- like how many m+ PUG groups they MANUALLY left recently
- What they typed in PUG group chats recently (especially before they left and in failed PUG groups)
- possibility to inspect person in-game before an invite
- maybe something else

Last night I left a pug because the healer/leader consistently wiped the entire group by ignoring mechanics. We had around 7 wipes total on something that should be trivial, 5 times from that specific person just not being aware of anything. She said she didn't do the instance before, which is fine because we all have to start somewhere. Apparently also didn't bother to read on what the mechanics are which is less excusable. Even after being told what to do she continued to make the same mistake, apologize, and make the same mistakes some more.

So yeah, I just left. Not worth the time/frustration/gold costs at all. Do I deserve an account wide weekly ban for this?

And like others pointed out, the reporting system allows for abuse, especially with the loot-being-tradeable idea/addon.

But the ability to check armory/inventory before inviting would be a welcome addition.

[cFortyfive]

As those people mostly care only about themselves introducing personal punishment (event light) could significantly correct their behavior in the game.

Wasting the time of others in that particular manner should come with a punishment. I would guess though the math is pretty simple here and they are losing less customers over the behaviour of those retards than they'd lose handling those retards in the correct manner. Pretty much the same way it goes for botters.

[Meiffert]

Just put a deserter de-buff on the person leaving by themselves. But the duration should me far more than 30 min. say like 1 day. he can't participate in M+ dungeon for 24 hours. that should be good.

What about when you do a +15 dungeon with some friends, you are maybe a bit undergeared, but you figure you might try it out. You get to the 2nd boss and you just can't kill it with your ilvl. You wipe 12 times, all happily agree to give up and try another players +6 key instead, no problem here.

Except now one of you have to leave first and can't enter the +6 dungeon for 24 hours.

[Deleted]

the problem is not that your key is special, the problem is that you have to run a "dungeon of shame" to remove the depleted status and level it further.
you lose an option. with a working key, it's either use your key, or find a random key, with depleted key, only the second option remains

Still dont get why is your key so important.
I had my key depleted, I deleted it and played on other peoples key. No "shame" run.
Next week I get new one from chest anyway.

[melodramocracy]

This is the big thing I don't understand about people so up in arms about M+ leavers. There is no special reward for using your key- unless you're getting carried, in which case, you'll get a higher level key to hopefully get another carry with.

If you're actually doing Mythics at a level that you are skilled and geared enough for, you can run without your own key as much as you want- your weekly order hall reward chest, after all, is based on the highest difficulty M+ you have cleared, not on the level of the key in your bags.

Most key owners are also the group creators. It's simply shitty to join a group where you don't need to use your own key and then rage quit, which causes the key owner to have to join another group to get his / hers charged again.

If you're a tank / heals, sure.... you basically have your pick of groups, never having to bother using your own key.

[Hyve]

I've left Mythic+ runs after being abused because I wasn't pulling fast enough, despite the DPS only pulling around ~200K while I am on ~160K. Do you really want me to sit through ~30 minutes of being abused by assholes who can't play, just to avoid being punished by your foolish system?

I've left some Mythic+ runs because something has come up, or someone else needs my help. You know what, it sucks, but deal with it. It'll get depleted, but get a friendly / guild group together, run it, re-activate it and go again.