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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Only go as a guild group.
    I was a the pugger with a 4 man guild group in a +5 Arcway. Ran out of time on 2nd to last boss. Their monk (a Pandaren ironically) decided at that point, his time was better spent to having dinner so he left. We 4 manned and finished the run. The lesson? Sometimes even your guildies are shit and will fuck you over. I certainly hope they pruned him from their roster.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    get a DC once, rip M+ for a week

    and if you say "only if you leave and not DC" then they'Ll just plug their routers.

    if there was a way to fix the leaver problem without leaving room for a lot of abuse it'd be in already
    RIP M+ for a week? You can just join another pug group. I pug 6/7+ all the time without issue. Enough with the bullshit whining. The system is never going to be perfect but as they've already commented on the matter there is no perfect system or fix that can be implemented to avoid abuse. Only thing they could do is give the leaver a debuff that stops them from queuing for 30 minutes or whatever it is now.

  3. #83
    Scarab Lord TwoNineMarine's Avatar
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    Like others have said: Your best chance is to find a guild that does that stuff so you don't need to pug. People are assholes. Always have been. Always will be.

    Nothing to be done about it.

    About your suggestion though. No we should not ban people from dropping groups. Shit comes up. Banning them for a week for that is silly.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.” - General James Mattis

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehr View Post
    I think it's ridiculous that you can't just reset the dungeon and restart. Blizzard says that such resets would take away from the perceived difficulty of the dungeon, but I think that's just a cop-out. This game basically revolves around different ways to sink your time, and resetting a dungeon multiple times is just another way. It would only affect the people who are looking for a "perfect" run, as those who are just trying to finish the dungeon for their reward (i.e. doing their single M+10 for the week) wouldn't care about the efficiency of the run or lack of errors.

    Look at Karazhan and the dungeon crawl to get Nightbane to spawn; players are MORE than willing to reset a dungeon in order to complete it within time, without regard for their lack of loot and time otherwise wasted.
    If you could reset the dungeon, you would see alot of people at +6 resetting on their group if they are doing just a bit badly. When you can't reset, you are kind of forced to complete it, even if you get 1 or 2, which makes it much safer to pug. I will agree, that you should have the freedom to reset if all players in the group agree, but other then that, then i think it is good things are the way they ere
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  5. #85
    Deleted
    Last night went for ''just wanna finish my key for weeklys chest'' with pubs cuz no friends feelsbadman (key 8 CoS). Aaand at like ~27% and 2 wipes trash one dude left (last week dude left at like 10% so thats progress right there ). Was mad, cuz when you say gonna stay till the end no matter what, you should keep your word. Afterall that ended up in doing other ppl keys and geting even better chest than expected. Personally adding the ''quiters/morons'' into personal BL so never gonna play with them again. But Im against big punishments cuz DC might happen or smtng that we cant control. I would be happy with some ''debuff'' saying that the player left mythic + in the last week (lasting 1 week for example) and if that player try mythic + again, the rest of the party can decide if they wanna risk it with him(her).

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by adventurer View Post
    According to the largest study ever conducted on personality disorders (PD) by the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH), 5.9% of the U.S. population has BPD (Grant et al. 2008) and 6.2% has NPD (Stinson et al. 2008). As some people fit both diagnoses, about 10 percent of the U.S. population has BPD and/or NPD.

    Only BPD and NPD are 10% of the population of USA and there are many other disorders which mean you inevitably meet a lot of assholes in the game.

    As those people mostly care only about themselves introducing personal punishment (event light) could significantly correct their behavior in the game.

    For example, I believe, account wide ban for a week from m+ for people that manually leave m+ or are reported for bad behavior can significantly improve social environment of the game and make the World better place again.

    Any other ideas?
    /discuss

    UPD: Actually I think better solution would be is to provide more information for PUG leader about people that want to join:

    - like how many m+ PUG groups they MANUALLY left recently
    - What they typed in PUG group chats recently (especially before they left and in failed PUG groups)
    - possibility to inspect person in-game before an invite
    - maybe something else
    Banning people for a week when it could be by mistake would at least happen once which isn't fair. You can't put manually because people would just cause chaos in groups till the dungeon fell apart or they get kicked, maybe they DC and just wait to get automatically kicked from group.
    This ban would cause more issue then it would solve.
    You could put a rating system but people would still troll others, what if I got a piece of gear and didn't want to give it to the PuG leader as it was better for me, you then talk to the PuG leader and he tells you I am an asshole and shouldn't run with me.


    The best way I could think of to solve the PuG leaving issue is stop cross realm interaction, when a realm only deals with people on that realm it becomes more challenging to become an asshole as you would get a bad rep, you need to play nice because you play with the same groups of people all the time. Server Community before cross realm was amazing for weeding out these people. The issue here is that cross realm has already been put in game, we are use to it and some servers are empty, cross realm is a necessary evil.

    So that leaves you with the next best way of solving the issue, don't take the chance and find a group you run with all week every week. A guild group for mythic+!!

  7. #87
    Deleted
    I actually think the best way really would be a "reputation system" like proposed in one of the first posts here:

    Show for people signing up for your group (or for the people you sign up with)
    - how often they have manually left an m+ before defeating the final boss
    - Total number of m+ done, possibly split out into 2-5, 6-9, 10+
    - In case the player has been reported, what were the last 3 chat statements before the report was registered

    According to these 3 statistics, I would be pretty sure which people I would and would not accept to my group and which groups I would or would not join.

    Edit: I've not done many m+ PuGs so far, because I have a really good & active guild, but the few ones I have been in went rather smoothly and I've never had anyone leave an m+ so far. I'm basing my suggestions purely on my good faith in that the people here are telling the truth about being stood up during an m+ regularly.

  8. #88
    Deleted
    If the majority of us don't get to do a whole bunch of quests with the dungeon finder, then you people running mythic+ get to live with your runs being screwed when someone leaves. Flip side of the development direction being what it is.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Socronoss View Post
    I actually think the best way really would be a "reputation system" like proposed in one of the first posts here:

    Show for people signing up for your group (or for the people you sign up with)
    - how often they have manually left an m+ before defeating the final boss
    - Total number of m+ done, possibly split out into 2-5, 6-9, 10+
    - In case the player has been reported, what were the last 3 chat statements before the report was registered

    According to these 3 statistics, I would be pretty sure which people I would and would not accept to my group and which groups I would or would not join.

    Edit: I've not done many m+ PuGs so far, because I have a really good & active guild, but the few ones I have been in went rather smoothly and I've never had anyone leave an m+ so far. I'm basing my suggestions purely on my good faith in that the people here are telling the truth about being stood up during an m+ regularly.
    I'm really happy to see this discussion taking place. I've been thinking what WoW needs is a rating/ranking system.

    Like all rating systems though I saw users like bubbadudda being fearful that players can use the system vindictively. Like all rating systems, yes, some people won't be happy with everyone all the time. Its why you keep doing the best possible job you can do so that others rate you positively. You can put systems into place where people can upvote/downvote comments that others make. That way if you get that guy who says, "Tank sucks. Doesn't pull fast enough", others who review you can agree/disagree. Enough disagrees and the comment grays off/goes off the record unless it gets a lot of upvotes. Small things like that can easily prevent blatant vandalism of one's ratings. The best way though to maintain that positive rating though is to simply be courteous, polite, and do the best you can and be willing to learn. Follow those principals and you'll be successful the majority of the time. (Not all the time because you will run into silly gooses out there that cannot be reasoned with)

    I also do agree with the other posts I saw about players leaving if the Plus doesn't go perfectly that they should be punished. I did an EoA last week where we had a bad pull, (Druid Tank had a hiccup). We as a result weren't going to get +3 chests anymore. Our Warlock then decided that the, "Mythic was not worth his time", and bailed on the spot. I talked to him shortly after he left to why he left and his reason in summary was "God Complex". I do feel that players who did quit like that should get some sort of punishment. I like the idea that you get a week long debuff that prevents you from completing Mythic+. It gets the point across. In addition to that, if you're afraid of DCs happening just program the system that if you DC the group gets a say in your decision to leave and if they vote positively for you leaving, you don't get the debuff.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelin View Post
    RIP M+ for a week? You can just join another pug group. I pug 6/7+ all the time without issue. Enough with the bullshit whining. The system is never going to be perfect but as they've already commented on the matter there is no perfect system or fix that can be implemented to avoid abuse. Only thing they could do is give the leaver a debuff that stops them from queuing for 30 minutes or whatever it is now.
    that's literally what i said

    my "dc once rip m+ for a week" comment was for OP

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Waffen View Post
    I'm really happy to see this discussion taking place. I've been thinking what WoW needs is a rating/ranking system.

    Like all rating systems though I saw users like bubbadudda being fearful that players can use the system vindictively. Like all rating systems, yes, some people won't be happy with everyone all the time. Its why you keep doing the best possible job you can do so that others rate you positively. You can put systems into place where people can upvote/downvote comments that others make. That way if you get that guy who says, "Tank sucks. Doesn't pull fast enough", others who review you can agree/disagree. Enough disagrees and the comment grays off/goes off the record unless it gets a lot of upvotes. Small things like that can easily prevent blatant vandalism of one's ratings. The best way though to maintain that positive rating though is to simply be courteous, polite, and do the best you can and be willing to learn. Follow those principals and you'll be successful the majority of the time. (Not all the time because you will run into silly gooses out there that cannot be reasoned with)

    I also do agree with the other posts I saw about players leaving if the Plus doesn't go perfectly that they should be punished. I did an EoA last week where we had a bad pull, (Druid Tank had a hiccup). We as a result weren't going to get +3 chests anymore. Our Warlock then decided that the, "Mythic was not worth his time", and bailed on the spot. I talked to him shortly after he left to why he left and his reason in summary was "God Complex". I do feel that players who did quit like that should get some sort of punishment. I like the idea that you get a week long debuff that prevents you from completing Mythic+. It gets the point across. In addition to that, if you're afraid of DCs happening just program the system that if you DC the group gets a say in your decision to leave and if they vote positively for you leaving, you don't get the debuff.
    I totally support this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Orionmnt View Post
    Last night went for ''just wanna finish my key for weeklys chest'' with pubs cuz no friends feelsbadman (key 8 CoS). Aaand at like ~27% and 2 wipes trash one dude left (last week dude left at like 10% so thats progress right there ). Was mad, cuz when you say gonna stay till the end no matter what, you should keep your word. Afterall that ended up in doing other ppl keys and geting even better chest than expected. Personally adding the ''quiters/morons'' into personal BL so never gonna play with them again. But Im against big punishments cuz DC might happen or smtng that we cant control. I would be happy with some ''debuff'' saying that the player left mythic + in the last week (lasting 1 week for example) and if that player try mythic + again, the rest of the party can decide if they wanna risk it with him(her).
    Yes DC might happen but also it is possible to track when user MANUALLY select option to leave m+ group. Personally I NEVER LEFT m+ dungeon first or even second.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Most key owners are also the group creators. It's simply shitty to join a group where you don't need to use your own key and then rage quit, which causes the key owner to have to join another group to get his / hers charged again.

    If you're a tank / heals, sure.... you basically have your pick of groups, never having to bother using your own key.
    there are people with bad mood or super bad day, but there are people which are permanent assholes. They enjoy fuc_ing some one else lives because it makes them feel better.

  12. #92
    Could something akin to the system one of the MOBAs uses (not sure which one) that basically flags someone each time they drop, and after a certain number they get put into the Bad Kid pile, work? With an appeals process of course.

  13. #93
    High Overlord
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    At what point do you stop suffering the bad?

    The tank dying 4 times before reaching the first boss in Maw (Yes, Maw. The shortest boss run ever.)?
    The tank dying in HoV repeatedly because he stands in the lightning breath on first boss causing the healer to oom?
    A hunter causing wipes pretty much everytime barrage is off cooldown in Arcway (6 wipes, not even reaching first boss)?
    A tank too stupid to stay alive but brags about his dps by posting the meter in party chat and having used up all battle reses in a fight (a dk, a lock and two druids)?

    So if I drop out of one of theses groups, I should be penalized?


    Riiight...
    Last edited by Mil Mascaras; 2016-11-02 at 08:07 PM.

  14. #94
    Holy Priest Saphyron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goblingirl View Post
    I really, really miss the heyday of Openraid (MoP).

    Openraid allowed you to find people to run CMs and raids and do weird achievements with... AND because of its feedback and ratings system, abusive people didn't last long on the site.

    Blizzard's Group Finder killed Openraid, which I still don't quite understand because it's so freaking toxic (Group Finder that is).

    For me, the true appeal of Openraid was a self-policed society where verbally abusive people and gear thieves were banned. I found a lot of good groups there, and raided with some people who are still on my friends list 4-5 years later. I made my first "learning" CM group there when MoP released and we spent a few weeks getting our Golds together in all the MoP dungeons, all of us from different servers. Had a lot of fun.

    For most others, it must have been purely just a way to "find a group regardless of quality", because most people seem to have abandoned it for grouping with total strangers in WoD (and making countless threads about raid leaders ninja'ing all the loot).

    As a former openraid raid leader.
    Blizzards group finder did not kill openraid. the staff behind openraid killed openraid.
    I was part of the mvp program.

    And the leadership was more focused on making money and selling the company than trying to make openraid progress.
    Most raid leaders have left openraid due to the leadership.

    Now I agree openraid was great and I wish that more people used it. But nothing new is coming out for it and it was sold to another company who don't see the value in it.

    Though I agree a bit with OP. Personally, I wish there was a feedback system in the game. where you could report each person.
    While in the start it might not be as useful. But if a person has gotten 2-3000 negative votes it's easy to see he is a arsehole.
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  15. #95
    Stood in the Fire Tehr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    If you could reset the dungeon, you would see alot of people at +6 resetting on their group if they are doing just a bit badly. When you can't reset, you are kind of forced to complete it, even if you get 1 or 2, which makes it much safer to pug. I will agree, that you should have the freedom to reset if all players in the group agree, but other then that, then i think it is good things are the way they ere
    You were able to reset Challenge Modes, which were essentially the same thing except for scaling differences (Gold is 3chest, Silver is 2chest, Bronze is 1chest).
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  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Raamul View Post
    sorry,were_you_talking_to_me?
    Yes, I was. How do you deal with the situation I quoted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waffen View Post
    I also do agree with the other posts I saw about players leaving if the Plus doesn't go perfectly that they should be punished.
    I like the idea that you get a week long debuff that prevents you from completing Mythic+
    People won't leave, they will just afk/wipe the group until they get what they want (kick, which is punishment free leave).

    Also, as I already said earlier in the topic, what about this situation?
    you do a +15 dungeon with some friends, you are maybe a bit undergeared, but you figure you might try it out. You get to the 2nd boss and you just can't kill it with your ilvl. You wipe 12 times, all happily agree to give up and try another players +6 key instead, no problem here.
    Now one of your friends (or you) have to take the week long ban.

    What if you are in a group that just can't finish? You spend 2 hours on the first boss and don't even get him below 70 %, what then? All 5 get a ban for a week? Or just one of you? How do you choose her?



    As for your voting system ideas, there are two possibilities:
    a) complicated system that takes various issues into account and prevents abuse
    b) quick upvote/downvote system, vote on dc players etc. (done with 1 click)


    a) already exists (openraid.eu for example). You can get good groups there where people behave and everything is great. I recommend it for more serious content, like mythic raids (if you want to pug it).
    Very few people use it though and that's not going to change because the effort is usually not worth it for most content (such as dungeons). Just like it would not be worth it if it was implemented in-game, 99 % of players would just ignore it.

    b) would work the same way it works in MOBAs.
    Enemy killed me? Report for ability abuse.
    New player doing their best but low gear? Report for intentional feeding/wiping.
    Someone took "my" item? Report.

    Just watch any stream from DOTA2, this happens every other game even when players are streaming and are supposedly on their best behaviour. I have never seen actual legitimate report for any of these things.

    The only time I have seen reports for leaving was when it was the opponent player who left in a clearly decided game when the winning team wanted to kill him 20 more times before completing the objective.

    These experiences made me wary of how similar systems work.
    Also, MOBAs have by far the worst communities I have seen. Trying to imitate their "solutions" might not be the best idea.

  17. #97
    They should just make it pause the timer, and freeze the minions in the dungeon until a 5th person enters.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by adventurer View Post
    According to the largest study ever conducted on personality disorders (PD) by the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH), 5.9% of the U.S. population has BPD (Grant et al. 2008) and 6.2% has NPD (Stinson et al. 2008). As some people fit both diagnoses, about 10 percent of the U.S. population has BPD and/or NPD.

    Only BPD and NPD are 10% of the population of USA and there are many other disorders which mean you inevitably meet a lot of assholes in the game.

    As those people mostly care only about themselves introducing personal punishment (event light) could significantly correct their behavior in the game.

    For example, I believe, account wide ban for a week from m+ for people that manually leave m+ or are reported for bad behavior can significantly improve social environment of the game and make the World better place again.

    Any other ideas?
    /discuss

    UPD: Actually I think better solution would be is to provide more information for PUG leader about people that want to join:

    - like how many m+ PUG groups they MANUALLY left recently
    - What they typed in PUG group chats recently (especially before they left and in failed PUG groups)
    - possibility to inspect person in-game before an invite
    - maybe something else
    No, the system works well as it is right now. Do mythics with friends/guild mates if it's an issue for you.
    If I join a group that sucks, I want to be able to leave.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    They should just make it pause the timer, and freeze the minions in the dungeon until a 5th person enters.
    Okay, now the high level mythic+ strats involve swapping out players for bosses and trash. Who gets the achievement? The person there for just the boss kills, or the person there for trash? Both?

    Also, does the same thing happen if you get kicked? Because then I can get my group of 4 guildies, pug some guy to do a +10 with us, kick him before the last boss, invite someone else who paid us and have him just in for the last boss.

  20. #100
    I love this thread for its entertainment value.

    Its a great way to have a few laughs and giggles watching people embarrass themselves presenting 'ideas' - without realising the even-worse can-of-worms and huge levels of abuse that'd also come with their special snowflake suggestion.

    Thankyou to all contributors so far.

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