Do you think physical discipline on a child ever teaches anything good?

[May90]

Just adding my 2 cents here... as I've outlined my position pretty well in previous posts.

(1) It absolutely matters what society believes. Society believes that murder is wrong. Just because an individual has some crazy view on the world and that under certain circumstances murder is justifiable, doesn't make it so.

(2) You can't claim that everyone knows that, by their own experience; with the caveat that if your experience means you can justify spanking then it doesn't matter. People are telling you their experience is different from your own, and you flat out disregarding it. Unfortunately... you are the minority. Change the world... its a noble effort. As of this moment, you are outnumbered.

Discipline in general regardless of method is a conditioning tool. As far as spanking being a form of coercion... lol good luck supporting that argument, lol.

What I'm saying is society's opinion doesn't affect the reality, such as whether hitting someone has negative effects or not. Just like society believing Earth is the center of the Universe doesn't make it so, the society believing that hitting a child has no negative effects doesn't make it so.

And spanking, of course, is coercion, pretty much by definition. The very idea is: "He will be afraid of being spanked for doing something, so he won't be doing that." What is coercion, if not this? Again, it doesn't matter what the society thinks about it, it is just how language works.

[Karaoke]

It doesn't matter what the society believe; the fact that hitting someone has negative effects doesn't need to be explained, everybody past age of 6 or so knows that well, by their own experience.

It is not a learning tool at all. It is a conditioning tool, coercing tool. I can't take someone's parenting skills seriously, if they believe that coercion is an integral component of parenting.

Just curious, were you spanked as a child and felt like it has left long term negative effects on your life?

I haven't read every post in this thread but in general it seems people who are stating that 'physical discipline' had a long term negative effect on their lives either mention 'physical abuse' (which I would classify in as different category as physical discipline) or had non-loving/non-compassionate/another deficiency) parents.

Maybe confirmation bias on my part, but would love to hear from those who were physically disciplined that truly felt it had a negative long term effect on their lives and not from research/study.

[Fabinas]

There's a huge difference between child abuse and physical discipline. When my daughter was 1 year old and was crawling around the house she tried to insert stuff in an electric plug. I could have let her try and fail, since every plug in the house was tapped, but instead, i let her try to do the movement, and then slapped her hand and started shouting angrily at her "NO, you will NEVER do that again". She didn't even show a remote interest in plugs again.

Was i harsh, over the top? Did i mentally abuse my child, striking fear to her? For some retard SWJ's here, probably. But, even if those people have a hold on the truth, i prefer that and have her kept safe through her small years, than not break an abstract principle "never strike/cause fear to a child". I do think that i used the most effective weapon to my father arsenal. I have never hit her again (not because i felt guilty or something, i just don't believe in hurting people).

As an answer to OP, i feel sorry for you and your family troubles and experience. But you experienced abuse, not discipline (if what you describe is true). Physical discipline makes a child understand some hard learned truths in life. There's always someone superior than you that can affect your life. Cause and effect. Think before you act.

[May90]

Just curious, were you spanked as a child and felt like it has left long term negative effects on your life?

I haven't read every post in this thread but in general it seems people who are stating that 'physical discipline' had a long term negative effect on their lives either mention 'physical abuse' (which I would classify in as different category as physical discipline) or had non-loving/non-compassionate/another deficiency) parents.

Maybe confirmation bias on my part, but would love to hear from those who were physically disciplined that truly felt it had a negative long term effect on their lives and not from research/study.

I've never been physically disciplined on purpose, aside from one event when my dad intended to spank me, but turned out it was just an intimidation with no real action. I have been disciplined by other means in many ways though. All it taught me was that my parents had pretty disgusting sides of their character (which I think they improved on much later, but still), and that I shouldn't let someone's authority dictate how I live - so I just did things they punished me for more and more, until they gave up. In a sense, those punishments made me a worse person - although, again, in the end I grew out of petty grudges.

It doesn't matter though. The fact that beating someone has negative effects doesn't need to be explained, and it is just a vile thing to do. Regardless of whether it has positive benefits and how big, it is a disgusting way to do parenting, in my opinion.

[Karaoke]

I've never been physically disciplined on purpose, aside from one event when my dad intended to spank me, but turned out it was just an intimidation with no real action. I have been disciplined by other means in many ways though. All it taught me was that my parents had pretty disgusting sides of their character (which I think they improved on much later, but still), and that I shouldn't let someone's authority dictate how I live - so I just did things they punished me for more and more, until they gave up. In a sense, those punishments made me a worse person - although, again, in the end I grew out of petty grudges.

It doesn't matter though. The fact that beating someone has negative effects doesn't need to be explained, and it is just a vile thing to do. Regardless of whether it has positive benefits and how big, it is a disgusting way to do parenting, in my opinion.

If I'm understanding you, it sounds like there were other methods of discipline outside of physical discipline that left negative long-term effects for you personally.

Is it that audacious to think that the manner in which the discipline was carried is what left the long-term effects? Poorly executed discipline, physical or not, is truly the issue?

edit: I don't equate 'beating' with 'physical discipline'. If that's what you're arguing then I agree completely.

[Shadowferal]

o great...people without children are talking shit again...it must be a wonder to them that society has come about as it has today since disciplining a child has been a thing for centuries.

[A dot Ham]

What I'm saying is society's opinion doesn't affect the reality, such as whether hitting someone has negative effects or not. Just like society believing Earth is the center of the Universe doesn't make it so, the society believing that hitting a child has no negative effects doesn't make it so.

And spanking, of course, is coercion, pretty much by definition. The very idea is: "He will be afraid of being spanked for doing something, so he won't be doing that." What is coercion, if not this? Again, it doesn't matter what the society thinks about it, it is just how language works.

A prime example of the intellectual dishonesty that is rampant through this thread.

You claim to know the definition of coercion which means you either own a dictionary or know how to use google. But in the same breath you ignore both the law's and the dictionary's distinctions between spanking and hitting(assault).

Where you are wrong in your application of the coercion definition is the timing, of the attempt to influence or change behavior.

As an aside I'd love to know how you manage to not apply other forms of discipline as they are all behavior modification techniques.

[Bapestar]

No, and there's a great deal of research that already proves this as fact.

There isn't, stop lying.

[May90]

If I'm understanding you, it sounds like there were other methods of discipline outside of physical discipline that left negative long-term effects for you personally.

Is it that audacious to think that the manner in which the discipline was carried is what left the long-term effects? Poorly executed discipline, physical or not, is truly the issue?

edit: I don't equate 'beating' with 'physical discipline'. If that's what you're arguing then I agree completely.

I don't think whether there are long-term negative effects is important, really. A person shouldn't hurt others "for their own good", in my opinion. It is just wrong. It is not up to them to decide what is the "greater good" for the other person, even their kid.

A prime example of the intellectual dishonesty that is rampant through this thread.

You claim to know the definition of coercion which means you either own a dictionary or know how to use google. But in the same breath you ignore both the law's and the dictionary's distinctions between spanking and hitting(assault).

Where you are wrong in your application of the coercion definition is the timing, of the attempt to influence or change behavior.

As an aside I'd love to know how you manage to not apply other forms of discipline as they are all behavior modification techniques.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/coercion

coercion
[koh-ur-shuh n]
noun
1.
the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.
2.
force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force.

You don't the like the word, fine, but it means what it means. And sure, you probably have to modify children's behavior on purpose - but not through coercion. If you have to make someone fear something to deliver a point, then you are pretty terrible at delivering a point.

As for the difference between spanking and hitting, well...

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hitting?s=t

1.
to deal a blow or stroke to:

o great...people without children are talking shit again...it must be a wonder to them that society has come about as it has today since disciplining a child has been a thing for centuries.

So has been extreme racism, sexism and religious totalitarianism. Nice argument.

[Masark]

o great...people without children are talking shit again...it must be a wonder to them that society has come about as it has today since disciplining a child has been a thing for centuries.

Yeah, many countries experiencing the lowest crime rates ever, a total lack of globe-spanning wars. Utterly horrible.

[Elegiac]

Physical discipline does teach you one good thing: that your parents are lazy and abusive assholes.

Anyone who has studied behavioural psychology understands why physical discipline is useless when it comes to teaching moral lessons; there is no justifiable reason to use physical violence against a child simply because you find their behaviour undesirable.

[Zodd]

I was spanked very rarely and it was for one of two reasons. 1. My actions would lead to hurting myself and I was not responding to verbal communication, 2. My actions would lead to hurting others and I was not responding to verbal communication. It was never anything I kept with me; I am not traumatized by it, and I do not remember specifically any instances. What I do remember is that if I deliberately did something I knew I should not that fell into those two categories I would probably regret it.. this kept me from doing whatever I was contemplating in my childhood mind 99% of the time.

[Deleted]

Physical discipline does teach you one good thing: that your parents are lazy and abusive assholes.

Anyone who has studied behavioural psychology understands why physical discipline is useless when it comes to teaching moral lessons; there is no justifiable reason to use physical violence against a child simply because you find their behaviour undesirable.

But there are non moral questions, and behavior that is dangerous.
It might be appropriate to swat your child instead of trying to explain to a 6 year old how electricity works.

[Violent]

You all do realize that 99.9% of you came from parents/families whom ALL were familiar with and DID spank, correct?

I mean, I see people in this thread saying "omg studies this, anecdote that, psychology says:"

You do realize that literally EVERYONE, for THOUSANDS of years, not only spanked, but did a whole lot worse, right?

Now look where WE, the products of ALL of history, are.. Some of you were so pampered and are now pansies that you are now trying to debate the validity of physical punishment.

WAKE UP!


You can go ahead and try and talk your 5 year old out of bad behavior. But people whom do that usually end up as even worse adults, or adults who are only willing to "give a talking to" say, a rapist, or child molester. Rather than jail time or, castration. (that last one would be my preferred punishment for said crimes)

[Masark]

You all do realize that 99.9% of you came from parents/families whom ALL were familiar with and DID spank, correct?

They also didn't have the internet or electricity or modern medicine or any number of other things.

Do you propose getting rid of all that stuff? Obviously we don't need it.

[Blur4stuff]

Physical violence obviously works. That shouldn't be what the debate is about. The right question to ask is, "is violence the best way?". The answer is no, of course.

Yes, you can train your child by hurting them. You could do all sorts of cruel things that would force them to behave a certain way. That doesn't mean you should. Also, just because past generations did something doesn't mean its the best way. That shouldn't have to be said at this point.

[Ragnarocket]

Yes there is a difference. The difference is one of degrees. And degrees only. You're still hurting a child.

Restrain a child who's endangering themselves or someone else? Sure.

Put them in their room ( which has been stripped of everything but their clothes and a bed) for an hour and lock it from the outside (and obviously securing any windows)? Absolutely. Kids hate being bored.

Hurt a child even a little bit? Those who do so are sick p.o.s. and deserve a pile of karma on their head.

I like how you imply my parents are "sick p.o.s." because I got the occasional spanking. That's nice.

As I stated. my parents never enjoyed spanking me or my brother. As they told me later in life they only used it as a last resort, when I was being too stubborn that other measures were not working or too disruptive and something needed to be done immediately. Eventually they were just able to use the threat of "someone sounds like they want a spanking now" and I'd usually chill out.

It's all about how you use it. It's probably not effective for every child, but for me, my cousins, my cousin's kids, etc...it's worked for all of us. We're all fully functioning members of society. We even love our parents who used this punishment on us.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

mkay, pumpkin. It's been fun, but I'm gonna put you on ignore now. See, that's the way I deal with people like you. You're an insignificant little person trying to hype up your ego on an internet forum where you can hide behind your anonymity. I don't believe any of your pretense alpha bullshit. Being all pretense badass? That's usually the sign of a very weak person, if not physically, then certainly mentally. Good luck in life, you're gonna need it, buddy.

lol all that time for little old weak me? you sure have shown me you twink

[Arunu]

There's a huge difference between child abuse and physical discipline. When my daughter was 1 year old and was crawling around the house she tried to insert stuff in an electric plug. I could have let her try and fail, since every plug in the house was tapped, but instead, i let her try to do the movement, and then slapped her hand and started shouting angrily at her "NO, you will NEVER do that again". She didn't even show a remote interest in plugs again.

Was i harsh, over the top? Did i mentally abuse my child, striking fear to her? For some retard SWJ's here, probably. But, even if those people have a hold on the truth, i prefer that and have her kept safe through her small years, than not break an abstract principle "never strike/cause fear to a child". I do think that i used the most effective weapon to my father arsenal. I have never hit her again (not because i felt guilty or something, i just don't believe in hurting people)

cool, meanwhile the retard SJW as i apparently am by your words managed to get his daughter to stop from doing that with talking and just removing them from that situation.
yes that means you actually have to put some effort into it ! shocking i know.
or you could just keep on hitting them, don't call it spanking or disciplining so it doesn't sounds as bad, you are hitting them.. simple as that.

what you taught your 1 year old was that you will hit her when she comes in certain situations she doesn't understand.
but your "logic "says while she doesn't understand talking and reason, she is perfectly able to understand why you hit her. good show

[LanToaster]

Physical discipline makes a child understand some hard learned truths in life. There's always someone superior than you that can affect your life. Cause and effect. Think before you act.

This is one of the most reasonable things I read here.

I have been disciplined by other means in many ways though. All it taught me was that my parents had pretty disgusting sides of their character (which I think they improved on much later, but still), and that I shouldn't let someone's authority dictate how I live - so I just did things they punished me for more and more, until they gave up. In a sense, those punishments made me a worse person - although, again, in the end I grew out of petty grudges.

To be honest, if thats your reaction on punishment, i wouldn´t see how less punishment would have made you a better person. I serously doubt that a: "No kid, you cant do that because its bad" would have any effect.
Sounds like a: "I do what I want, and nobody has the right to stop me"
Problematic thing with that mindset is that it doesnt fit very well in society.

I don't think whether there are long-term negative effects is important, really. A person shouldn't hurt others "for their own good", in my opinion. It is just wrong. It is not up to them to decide what is the "greater good" for the other person, even their kid.

Thats actually a Problem. Because if you dont "decide" as a Parent what is good for your kid, it might think its a good Idea to burn down your house. Because, you know, Fire is fun.
There are Plenty of things that are fun, but if taken just a bit to far quite problematic.

Yeah, many countries experiencing the lowest crime rates ever, a total lack of globe-spanning wars. Utterly horrible.

And the sole reason of that is because some people believe a slap to the bottom is a vile thing to do. Sure. I buy that.

Hitting your wife has also been a thing for centuries.
Lately we decided that they should have the right to vote and can no longer be considered as property.

That again? You know, a wife is vastly different from a kid.