Do you think physical discipline on a child ever teaches anything good?

[MasterOfNone]

Spanking, huh.

What about being grabbed by the collar and slammed into a wall while being psychologically probed?

yes because thats the same thing..../s

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cool, meanwhile the retard SJW as i apparently am by your words managed to get his daughter to stop from doing that with talking and just removing them from that situation.
yes that means you actually have to put some effort into it ! shocking i know.
or you could just keep on hitting them, don't call it spanking or disciplining so it doesn't sounds as bad, you are hitting them.. simple as that.

what you taught your 1 year old was that you will hit her when she comes in certain situations she doesn't understand.
but your "logic "says while she doesn't understand talking and reason, she is perfectly able to understand why you hit her. good show

and what you have taught yours is that there is no realistic consequence for stepping out of line. cops wont reason with your child when they get arrested for breaking the law. just sayin.

[Shiny212]

There isn't, stop lying.

It's a fact well known and just a google click away for people like you that negative reinforcement will not and never has worked on kids. Fear modifies behavior only if it's constant, no parent should keep their child in perpetual fear, and those that do so are guilty of abuse and the child will have emotional scars.

[MasterOfNone]

They also didn't have the internet or electricity or modern medicine or any number of other things.

Do you propose getting rid of all that stuff? Obviously we don't need it.

a bit of an extreme statement and reaction no? i had all those things as a child and im old enough to have a teenage child. just because you are a young pup finding things out does not mean the internet and electricity etc did not exist a while ago.

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It's a fact well known and just a google click away for people like you that negative reinforcement will not and never has worked on kids. Fear modifies behavior only if it's constant, no parent should keep their child in perpetual fear, and those that do so are guilty of abuse and the child will have emotional scars.

i dont. i am not the slightest bit bitter at my parents for physical discipline i received as a child. as an adult now, i actually appreciate it. it molded me into a very work driven and disciplined person. what you call a fact is hardly fact sir. analyzing 20 or so millennials and you saying its FACT across the board is hardly evidence to prove your point. you really need to talk to some older folks and different demographics to make that statement.

[Deleted]

If you put your hand in fire, you learn that fire burns you. I think this is a universally known fact. If someone smacks you over the head or on your ass, you learn that there are bigger, more powerful creatures in the world who have the ability to cause you pain. Not really hard to understand. The loudest, most arrogant people I have ever come across in my life have been those who have never been in a fight, and who also were never put in their place by their parents, and thus never learned any kind of humility. They never learned the consequences of acting like assholes.

None of that means that anyone should go around beating their children. But there are some completely hilarious claims in this thread about the use of any kind of physicality with children, even if that's simply picking them up or holding them in place or something.

[Shiny212]

a bit of an extreme statement and reaction no? i had all those things as a child and im old enough to have a teenage child. just because you are a young pup finding things out does not mean the internet and electricity etc did not exist a while ago.

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i dont. i am not the slightest bit bitter at my parents for physical discipline i received as a child. as an adult now, i actually appreciate it. it molded me into a very work driven and disciplined person. what you call a fact is hardly fact sir. analyzing 20 or so millennials and you saying its FACT across the board is hardly evidence to prove your point. you really need to talk to some older folks and different demographics to make that statement.

If you're so old and experienced, you should know that your ANECDOTAL evidence is hogwash. Anyone with a modicum of sense won't ignore virtually everything we now understand about behavioral psychology which clearly states to an undeniable fact that physical "discipline" is misguided and has longterm negative effects on children and adults alike; if you overcame your scars, congratulations, not everyone are as lucky.

[Keosen]

yes children need to be taught boundries. pain is a good teacher for humans. fear can be a good motivator.

Inspiring fear to your child as a parent is the worst thing you can do.

Also as a parent myself i can safely say that opinions for this matter from people who are not parents or who haven't involved with raising a kid have absolutely no value.

I have regretted for so many things i have said to parents when i was not a parent myself.

[MasterOfNone]

you talk bout a modicum of sense? you think a few kids who were really abused makes the statement for the world? thats the problem with YOUR line of thought. i know my experience is anecdotal. however, i know it as truth. i don't expect someone so like yourself to believe it, but i can guarantee you this. more than one person on these forums (might even be a dozen or even more) will have the same experience i had as a child. so that makes us all liars right? because its anecdotal, and because the sample size is literally just this discussion means we all collaborated and came up with the same thing to lie? open your eyes kid.

@Shiny

[Shiny212]

you talk bout a modicum of sense? you think a few kids who were really abused makes the statement for the world? thats the problem with YOUR line of thought. i know my experience is anecdotal. however, i know it as truth. i don't expect someone so like yourself to believe it, but i can guarantee you this. more than one person on these forums (might even be a dozen or even more) will have the same experience i had as a child. so that makes us all liars right? because its anecdotal, and because the sample size is literally just this discussion means we all collaborated and came up with the same thing to lie? open your eyes kid.

Great, so you know the "truth" which is objective analysis has yielded empirical proof with the results "physical discipline is an unfavorable method of raising children and will affect children negatively both physically and mentally"

[MasterOfNone]

You think that is an argument?
Loyalty to parents is always extreme. There are many cases of parents completely beating up, neglecting or sexually abusing their children and they are still loyal.


How come? One isn't a real human being?
One doesn't have the same rights as another?
I still miss the arguments as to why it's okay to hit another human being just because it happens to have your DNA.

i dont really like my parents as people dude. its not a loyalty thing. its an understanding. i know being a parent is tough. they disciplined in ways un-acceptable to many here with spankings. my understanding of why that discipline was needed at the time does not make me their biggest fan. you are trying to create absolutes just like the other poster shiny. in this case there really isnt any. you can make claims all you want but at the end of the day in his words, its "hogwash".

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Great, so you know the "truth" which is objective analysis has yielded empirical proof with the results "physical discipline is an unfavorable method of raising children and will affect children negatively both physically and mentally"

and your proof is based on how big of a study? what ages of people? what civilizations? thats what i thought....

[Nadiru]

Straight up hitting a kid? No. Poking him, or even giving him a little flick on the head to really get his attention? You bet.

[Arunu]

yes because thats the same thing..../s

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and what you have taught yours is that there is no realistic consequence for stepping out of line. cops wont reason with your child when they get arrested for breaking the law. just sayin.

i sincerely doubt cops find any need to reason with my 1 year old, she is 3 now but meh.
i guess you missed the "talking " part too, she is 3 now and still does not do everything i want at the time i want it.
if you want compliance by hitting them by all means go ahead, i will try doing it in another way , with reason, positive reinforcement, time outs and whatever else i think works.

[Shiny212]

i dont really like my parents as people dude. its not a loyalty thing. its an understanding. i know being a parent is tough. they disciplined in ways un-acceptable to many here with spankings. my understanding of why that discipline was needed at the time does not make me their biggest fan. you are trying to create absolutes just like the other poster shiny. in this case there really isnt any. you can make claims all you want but at the end of the day in his words, its "hogwash".

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and your proof is based on how big of a study? what ages of people? what civilizations? thats what i thought....

http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=ef...ne+on+children

[MasterOfNone]

http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=ef...ne+on+children

no sir. dont do that shit. you are making the claims, you provide the numbers and evidence. i will not do YOUR footwork for YOU to prove you wrong.

[Shiny212]

no sir. dont do that shit. you are making the claims, you provide the numbers and evidence. i will not do YOUR footwork for YOU to prove you wrong.

I just did that, that link provides you with a slew of scientific articles all concluding with what I've been trying to teach you. If you're too proud to even click them I can't help you.

but hell I'll try anyway:

from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/

Key points

Numerous studies have found that physical punishment increases the risk of broad and enduring negative developmental outcomes.

No study has found that physical punishment enhances developmental health.

Most child physical abuse occurs in the context of punishment.

A professional consensus is emerging that parents should be supported in learning nonviolent, effective approaches to discipline.

more specifically on "spanking"

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

the list goes on

https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-an...es114-127.html

These aren't hard to find.

[Deleted]

A lot of this "don't use physicality with your children" originates from people who a) don't have children and think that if they did, they'd be perfect parents, and they'd have perfect little angels as children, or b) who do have children but have yet to have gotten in a situation with their children where words just have no effect, and think that their perfect little angels will never do something so bad, because they're perfect parents themselves.

Then when those somewhat deluded people do get into these situations where they do have to restrain their children, or perhaps even tap them on the butt a bit, or give them a bit of a fillip, they've switched over to the other side, and suddenly their opinions no longer somehow matter, even though now they know better. It's always that group that has no experience of having to use any kind of physicality who thinks they're absolutely correct.

So when faced with a question like, "what would you do if your children had a tantrum" and did this and that, the answer is always "well my children would never!", or "well I'd use my magical words and magically calm my children down because I'm magical!"

[MasterOfNone]

I just did that, that link provides you with a slew of scientific articles all concluding with what I've been trying to teach you. If you're too proud to even click them I can't help you.

but hell I'll try anyway:

from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/

Key points

1. Numerous studies have found that physical punishment increases the risk of broad and enduring negative developmental outcomes.

2. No study has found that physical punishment enhances developmental health.

3. Most child physical abuse occurs in the context of punishment.

4. A professional consensus is emerging that parents should be supported in learning nonviolent, effective approaches to discipline.

no sir, you didnt. you linked shit for me to read which im not gonna do. if you are going to link something, link to me the numbers of children in these studies. their ages. their countries of origin and things of this nature which are ALL contributing factors. then you need to also research what discipline vs abuse is. you are making your search predicated on the word "abuse". you are essentially looking to find truth about abuse as you google it....well....DUH!! the same logic can be applied to mental abuse by being yelled at as discipline as opposed to spankings. do you not believe there is a study to prove that? by your logic no one should ever be disciplined because it could lead to a form of abuse whether it be physical or verbal.

1.where? links?
2.no study that you know of or would researching that not fit your agenda and narrative?
3. child abuse is wrong on any level see my post.
4.where is it at once again? link? numbers? proof?? all things that seem a reasonable request to make an outlandish claim

[Shiny212]

no sir, you didnt. you linked shit for me to read which im not gonna do. if you are going to link something, link to me the numbers of children in these studies. their ages. their countries of origin and things of this nature which are ALL contributing factors. then you need to also research what discipline vs abuse is. you are making your search predicated on the word "abuse". you are essentially looking to find truth about abuse as you google it....well....DUH!! the same logic can be applied to mental abuse by being yelled at as discipline as opposed to spankings. do you not believe there is a study to prove that? by your logic no one should ever be disciplined because it could lead to a form of abuse whether it be physical or verbal.

It said most child abuse occurs under the guise of "discipline", cmon read it at least. You going to discredit the articles without reading them? cool, the sources are sound btw, medical journals from the national library & university studies, and it's not just 1 or 2, you'll find an endless list.

And also might I say, you should look into what discipline really means, it has nothing to do with violence.

But really, I give up, the proof is there, take it or leave it. You can't expect to be taken seriously if you "refuse to read" the proof i provided you with.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

Born into (admittedly) irresponsible, hateful, self-centered parents within highly dysfunctional families, I have never known actual love or empathy, culminating in an incredibly neglectful childhood and adolescence devoid of self-awareness and real companionship. Such things coupled with inevitable divorce feuds and physical abuse from a father, whom I have since severed ties to, would destroy all chances of leading a normal life and cause me to become shy and unstable.

Throughout the harshest of years, animation and video games filled colors into my personality that was otherwise a submissive, blank slate. Even with limited internet access and little money, I deeply cherished what cartoons and games I could enjoy and these hobbies aided me in becoming slightly more expressive and immensely expanding my vocabulary to fill in for the education I never got.

To be honest, I've been seeking real help lately. The drama with my father is long over and done with and I will never see that person again but still, I like to think about how a lot of people in my childhood or long before claim they were hit by their parents. They even justify that such a thing made them "tougher" but it really didn't work out for me obviously (understatement).

It's illegal anyway now but still, do you think physical discipline teaches anything?

I'm sorry you grew up the way you did but physical discipline does have its appropriate applications. I believe it was Paracelsus who said “all things are poisons, for there is nothing without poisonous qualities. It is only the dose which makes a thing poison.” The same can be said for physical discipline. If utilized, it needs to be done in a controlled manner, for a specific purpose and in a way that does not cause real harm to the child. I spank my for offences that require immediate, and severe punishment, or in instances where they are ignoring or defying the instructions of their parents. It is useful when kids are young and have low attentions spans to a. get their attention, b. have them associate negative consequences to undesirable behavior, and c. establish clear dominance in the relationship on the part of the parents. I will do this less as they age and gain longer attention spans and enter phases of their lives where I want them less submissive and more independent. So far the result is I have five children who are well behaved, have good table manners, speak properly, and do well in school.

[LanToaster]

You think that is an argument?
How come? One isn't a real human being?
One doesn't have the same rights as another?
I still miss the arguments as to why it's okay to hit another human being just because it happens to have your DNA.

First: You cant really reduce individuals to just "Human beeings".

The Difference is: A "Wife" is (at least in most countries) an adult person. With an adult person comes certein "capabilities". For starters:
Understanding cause and effect when told. And a set of Knowledge to associate things.

For example:
You tell an Adult: "No, dont put your hand on the stove,electrical plug etc"
The Adult "should" understand that. Because he someday learned that fire is indeed hot and heat will definetly hurt like hell.
You tell a Kid the same thing. The kid might not understand that there is imidiate danger. Because how should he?
You might have the kid who takes anything for granted that you tell him. I for myself has as far as I can remember questioned stuff until I understood it and made sense. There are some things you only understand truly if you experience that.
I would hope my kid never experiences burn. So, if it would repeadetly try to light stuff on fire, or play with the stove, and dont stop when told. It gets a smack on the hand, or slap on them bottom.
I´d rather have my kid slight misconfort than bring it to the hospital.

My sister can´t have any candles in her House because of her children, and I heard similar stuff: "No we cant have such things in the house because of the Kids"

The Difference is:
Childs usually dont have the capacity to understand complex things. Hell even adults sometimes dont have the capacity to understand that when you drop heavy stuff out of the window, people can be hurt by that.

Also:

Inspiring fear to your child as a parent is the worst thing you can do.

I dont think the point is to inspire fear of the Parent itself. Sure, if you dont handle your punishments right, it can lead to that. But that can be with any Punishment. There are People who shit their pants if you just raise your voice. (Without prior abuse)

I think the "Fear" he´s talking about is rather: "I wont take 20$ of my moms purse to buy me something because I get grounded/spanked"
Or in Adults terms: "I wont rob the bank, because I probably go to prison for the rest of my Life"

Cause and Effect. If a child reacts to: "Go to your Room, you are grounded", thats nice. Some Kids dont care about that though.

Also as a parent myself i can safely say that opinions for this matter from people who are not parents or who haven't involved with raising a kid have absolutely no value.

I have regretted for so many things i have said to parents when i was not a parent myself.

I sort of agree on that point. I think my Opinion have less value for individual Parenting. But my Experiences from my Childhood should still be valid.
I got Spanked for some things I did. And I dont go around beating people. While there are people I know who never got Spanked, and have a criminal record.

I usually dont invole myself in individual parenting. But I really hate baseless preaching. And I dont take "Psychology research" for granted. As long as there are researcher there are people who "think" they know how people will act on certain triggers. They have several times proven to be wrong. And they will be proven wrong several times to come.

[MasterOfNone]

It said most child abuse occurs under the guise of "discipline", cmon read it at least. You going to discredit the articles without reading them? cool, the sources are sound btw, medical journals from the national library & university studies, and it's not just 1 or 2, you'll find an endless list.

But really, I give up, the proof is there, take it or leave it. You can't expect to be taken seriously if you "refuse to read" the "proof" i provided you with.

fixed. you, like many other posters here, find a source or two about a topic that fits your narrative and call it proof. this is a very very difficult subject. you cannot have even a dozen studies where 300 or hell even 3000 people agree to make a rule when there is 7 billion people on this planet. these studies are NOT proven and are def not the majority sir. you need to think a bit outside the box.