Brexit - UK Parliament to vote on Article 50

[dribbles]

my newest info is the court argued: parliament was instrumental in entering EU (ok, it's former version), so it has to be instrumental in the brexit.

And by fair guess parliament will aim for soft brexit. If government wants a hard brexit and cannot convince parliament, it could lead to general elections ahead of time.
The ball is now in the field of the Supreme Court; december is the time for their verdict.

Anyone wants to bet on their voice ?

It is this that was used in court https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689 against the PM.

The supreme court will hear the case in december but the verdict won't be delivered until January, likely reinforcing the High court because of the Bill of Rights.

[ranzino]

It is this that was used in court https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689 against the PM.

The supreme court will hear the case in december but the verdict won't be delivered until January, likely reinforcing the High court because of the Bill of Rights.

PM May never saw that coming ? Bill of Rights is the bread and butter of UK.

[Weinstein]

Let us hope that the government votes to remain in the EU and defies the will of the people.
Let us hope there is a uprising and we become a absolute monarchy again!

[ranzino]

Let us hope that the government votes to remain in the EU and defies the will of the people.
Let us hope there is a uprising and we become a absolute monarchy again!

Government is adamant on Brexit, only parliament can intervene by now.

[Weinstein]

Government is adamant on Brexit, only parliament can intervene by now.

Government is parliament? I was only taking the piss anyway..

[Dhrizzle]

Yes, it is if they didn't vote against it.

If you don't want something to happen then you vote against it. You don't sit at and don't even care to go vote.

Okay let's accept this as a "majority," the question really is what did those people vote for?

It was only a majority of English and Welsh people who voted for the exit, NI and Scotland voted to remain so there's a constitutional crisis brewing. Would the exit voters still want to leave the EU if it means breaking up the UK, or reigniting the Troubles in Northern Ireland?

A popular promise from the exit camp was £350m a week being pumped into the NHS, a blatant lie on several levels. If the government can not guarantee that money going to the NHS is it still the will of the people to leave the EU?

Finally, it's possible for the UK to negotiate a deal similar to Norway. We still have to pay the EU money (but we lose our rebate and investments,) we still have to obey EU regulations (but we don't get a say in making them) and we still have to accept EU migrants in exchange for accessing the free market. That would be following the result of the referendum, but would it be following the will of the people do you think?

Apologies if this has already been covered I haven't had time to look through all 18 pages.

Can somebody explain to me what this actually means. Does this mean that Parliament just have to vote to approve the invoking of A50? Or does this mean that the Government has to set out in detail to Parliament what it hopes to achieve in the exit negotiations before they will approve A50

Technically it means that Parliament just have to vote to approve the invoking of A50.

In practice there's a good chance that the Government will have to explain their negotiating strategy to get that approval, Labour in particular are unlikely to vote for A50 without knowing what the Tories are trying to get out of it, the SNP are definitely going to be against it and it's uncertain how the Conservatives will line up.

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My guess is that Liberals will fight tooth and nail to nix the democratic will of the masses and work hard to keep the people out of decision making from here on out. Since it has become apparent that the "Proles," don't have any interest in willingly building their little New Jerusalem.

Do you mean the Lib Dems because it's going to be a long time before they have any power to do anything (if at all.)

Or are you using "Liberals" to refer to any left-leaning party, because the EU-exit issue went across party lines. In fact our main left-wing party leader was a euro-sceptic, whilst our right-wing government is largely pro-Europe.

Also what do you mean "New Jerusalem," is this some sort of anti-semitic/Nazi thing?

[edw]

First of all the people of UK voted to leave, it dose not matter if few people voted, or if politicians lied ... they have to assume it and take action on what they voted.
In my opinion UK should leave sooner rather then later, it's not and it never wanted to be part of the EU family.
Now this subject is getting sad and funny at the same time, democracy needs to be carried out ... even if most of then had no idee on what they were voting for.

[Weinstein]

Why do people still go on about only England and Wales voted to leave the EU?
Scotland had their referendum vote on independence and they clearly voted against it.
The polling card clearly stated "DO YOU WANT THE UK TO LEAVE THE EU?"
Fuck off with the "Scotland and NI voted to stay" bullshit. There was still people in Scotland and NI who wanted to leave.

[THE Bigzoman]

Okay let's accept this as a "majority," the question really is what did those people vote for?

It was only a majority of English and Welsh people who voted for the exit, NI and Scotland voted to remain so there's a constitutional crisis brewing. Would the exit voters still want to leave the EU if it means breaking up the UK, or reigniting the Troubles in Northern Ireland?

A popular promise from the exit camp was £350m a week being pumped into the NHS, a blatant lie on several levels. If the government can not guarantee that money going to the NHS is it still the will of the people to leave the EU?

Finally, it's possible for the UK to negotiate a deal similar to Norway. We still have to pay the EU money (but we lose our rebate and investments,) we still have to obey EU regulations (but we don't get a say in making them) and we still have to accept EU migrants in exchange for accessing the free market. That would be following the result of the referendum, but would it be following the will of the people do you think?



Technically it means that Parliament just have to vote to approve the invoking of A50.

In practice there's a good chance that the Government will have to explain their negotiating strategy to get that approval, Labour in particular are unlikely to vote for A50 without knowing what the Tories are trying to get out of it, the SNP are definitely going to be against it and it's uncertain how the Conservatives will line up.

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Do you mean the Lib Dems because it's going to be a long time before they have any power to do anything (if at all.)

Or are you using "Liberals" to refer to any left-leaning party, because the EU-exit issue went across party lines. In fact our main left-wing party leader was a euro-sceptic, whilst our right-wing government is largely pro-Europe.

Also what do you mean "New Jerusalem," is this some sort of anti-semitic/Nazi thing?

When Theo uses "New Jerusalum", she means the vision that progressives have for society.

That's not a conspiracy. It's just a fancy way to describe the society the left--like any political instutution-- wants to bring to fruition.

[ranzino]

....

Also what do you mean "New Jerusalem," is this some sort of anti-semitic/Nazi thing?

My guess is on the hymn "Jerusalem" by Blake.



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Why do people still go on about only England and Wales voted to leave the EU?
Scotland had their referendum vote on independence and they clearly voted against it.
The polling card clearly stated "DO YOU WANT THE UK TO LEAVE THE EU?"
Fuck off with the "Scotland and NI voted to stay" bullshit. There was still people in Scotland and NI who wanted to leave.

It's a United Kingdom, not a monolith. And Scotland can speak for itself and majority of scots want to remain. So it begs the question to split the union if those 2 kingdoms cannot agree.

[Weinstein]

My guess is on the hymn "Jerusalem" by Blake.



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It's a United Kingdom, not a monolith. And Scotland can speak for itself and majority of scots want to remain. So it begs the question to split the union if those 2 kingdoms cannot agree.

Roughly two billion watched the royal wedding in 2011. I would love to see anywhere in Europe beat that number.

[Zarc]

So what was the substantive difference between this and Monarchy? If the only difference is "Knows how to run things," not what they will actually do, then what does it matter?

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Everyone is firmly convinced the other sides reasons for not agreeing with them are purely groundless, your thoughts are not all that original.

On the contrary. I am a social liberal. But I fully respect the disagreements I have with democratic socialists, social democrats, classical liberals, conservative liberals, christian democrats, liberal conservatives, traditional conservatives and others despite our political disagreements and different set of opinions. Here you have different thoughts, different ideologies, different ideas of public policies. We share the same facts, but not the same political views. With populists, alt-rightists and far-rightists we not only doesn't share the same political views, we live in different realities because they don't adhere to facts. Which also makes having arguments which such a person quite useless and boring, as it always ends up in discussions about what is true or false based on whatever shit they just read on Breitbart.com or whatever, rather than a spirited debate where our opinions, not facts, may differ but where we can agree to disagree.

[Weinstein]

It's a United Kingdom, not a monolith. And Scotland can speak for itself and majority of scots want to remain. So it begs the question to split the union if those 2 kingdoms cannot agree.

Scotland knew there was going to be a referendum before their vote of independence. Don't talk shit please. Sturgeon wants independence the rest of Scotland doesn't.

[Vivapin8]

Roughly two billion watched the royal wedding in 2011. I would love to see anywhere in Europe beat that number.

You know there is this place called the Vatican and evry time they change there monarch, billions watch it too !!!

[Rockyreg]

Technically it means that Parliament just have to vote to approve the invoking of A50.

In practice there's a good chance that the Government will have to explain their negotiating strategy to get that approval, Labour in particular are unlikely to vote for A50 without knowing what the Tories are trying to get out of it, the SNP are definitely going to be against it and it's uncertain how the Conservatives will line up.

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Great! So basically what I can see happening is it will get voted down until the Government has something resembling a 'soft Brexit' which is the worst of both worlds as it means we are not really leaving at all other than to give away our representation in the EU.

This would satisfy neither side of the argument, everyone will say 'whats the point' 2nd referendum will be called based upon the settlement Parliament has debated and remain will win easily.

Stitch-up complete

[Theodarzna]

Do you mean the Lib Dems because it's going to be a long time before they have any power to do anything (if at all.)

Or are you using "Liberals" to refer to any left-leaning party, because the EU-exit issue went across party lines. In fact our main left-wing party leader was a euro-sceptic, whilst our right-wing government is largely pro-Europe.

Also what do you mean "New Jerusalem," is this some sort of anti-semitic/Nazi thing?

New Jerusalem is an old as shit phrase that isn't anti-Semitic. Specifically in terms of British history its a reference to the beliefs of the Puritan's during their short lived rule of Britain and some of them also thought they were building a "New Jerusalem." It is a general term for building a "City on a Hill" or some other Utopian vision of the future.

As for Liberals, sorry I live in two places. I would say all the pro-EU people, whom are often Left Leaning or at least very Utopian in outlook.

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When Theo uses "New Jerusalum", she means the vision that progressives have for society.

That's not a conspiracy. It's just a fancy way to describe the society the left--like any political instutution-- wants to bring to fruition.

That is my meaning.

Though the phrase "New Jerusalem," is incredibly old now. In Britain its probably not in wide use, nor is it in America but it was last in major use by the Puritans in both Britain and America and during the English Civil War.

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On the contrary. I am a social liberal. But I fully respect the disagreements I have with democratic socialists, social democrats, classical liberals, conservative liberals, christian democrats, liberal conservatives, traditional conservatives and others despite our political disagreements and different set of opinions. Here you have different thoughts, different ideologies, different ideas of public policies. We share the same facts, but not the same political views. With populists, alt-rightists and far-rightists we not only doesn't share the same political views, we live in different realities because they don't adhere to facts. Which also makes having arguments which such a person quite useless and boring, as it always ends up in discussions about what is true or false based on whatever shit they just read on Breitbart.com or whatever, rather than a spirited debate where our opinions, not facts, may differ but where we can agree to disagree.

So as long as everyone agrees with you on stuff that you consider important, THEN their vote matters. Substantively you haven't really refuted what I have said, only clarified what positions you consider a MUST.

[THE Bigzoman]

New Jerusalem is an old as shit phrase that isn't anti-Semitic. Specifically in terms of British history its a reference to the beliefs of the Puritan's during their short lived rule of Britain and some of them also thought they were building a "New Jerusalem." It is a general term for building a "City on a Hill" or some other Utopian vision of the future.

As for Liberals, sorry I live in two places. I would say all the pro-EU people, whom are often Left Leaning or at least very Utopian in outlook.

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That is my meaning.

Though the phrase "New Jerusalem," is incredibly old now. In Britain its probably not in wide use, nor is it in America but it was last in major use by the Puritans in both Britain and America and during the English Civil War.

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So as long as everyone agrees with you on stuff that you consider important, THEN their vote matters. Substantively you haven't really refuted what I have said, only clarified what positions you consider a MUST.

You could say New Portland.

[Theodarzna]

You could say New Portland.

Eh, its not as evocative to me. I've never been to THAT Portland.

I do like the Portland in Maine though.

[AeneasBK]

it dose not matter if few people voted, or if politicians lied

Specifics of this situation aside, do you actually believe the bolded?

Just curious

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You know there is this place called the Vatican and evry time they change there monarch, billions watch it too !!!

The royal wedding wasn't changing a monarch though. Stay tuned for when ol' Lizzy croaks and we can see how many tune in.

[Shadowmelded]

Scotland knew there was going to be a referendum before their vote of independence. Don't talk shit please. Sturgeon wants independence the rest of Scotland doesn't.

This is a flat out lie that gets repeated way too often. The EU Referendum was only put into the Tory Manifesto AFTER the 2014 Referendum and was dependent on a Tory Majority that not even the Tories expected to happen even after the polls had closed.