[TV] Westworld

[ItachiZaku]

Yes pardon me. I meant one season only. If that is the case then every episode from now on should be really meaningful without boring fillers.

The plan was 5, I'm curious as to the contingency plan for an early cancellation. Would they have something in place at the end of each season, if they got punted mid season? HBO is much more apt to sign a 5 year contract, given some of their successes, but they didn't even give Game of Thrones that type of lead.

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Also why doesn't Robert just retire Dolores considering she's going nuts. Oh and speaking of which, this has to be the shittiest company to work in. 0 communication and everyone is a dickhead.

She is his pet project. Without her, his job and life are boring. And yeah, this company seems to run off a skeleton crew staff and everyone seems to hate each other. Well, aside from Beetee and that old executive chick he's banging. Yet, even they don't seen to overly like each other either.

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So if they really are in the past with the William scenes, what's going on with Delores back then? It looks like she's being infected by the reverie code but if that's the case William can't be the man in black

I love the thinking game with shows like this, so maybe D is in the beginning stages of "WTF" as Arnold has an open source out on her to gather and interpret and soon we'll have the "Delores kills williams asshole coworker" as being the accident 30 years ago. She doesn't get retired, but completely wiped and in modern time, old man in black william is trying to get that original D back, since that's the one he fell in love with. Beetee is going down the rabbit hole as D's original programming is peeking through and he's on the hunt for it.

Tons of what if's 5 weeks into a 5 year journey. I like it.

[Deleted]

Also why doesn't Robert just retire Dolores considering she's going nuts.

She is his pet project. Without her, his job and life are boring.

Well... As we learned in the latest episode, Dolores is actually Arnold's creation, and as we learned from Ford's conversation with Dolores, she's the last link to Arnold that Ford has. She still has memories - which may even be in the form of video and audio, who knows - of Arnold, locked away in her head. Whether Ford could access those or not is unsure, and somewhat irrelevant, as it's clear he'd still rather hold on to them.

[Frankminimia]

1. The Man in Black is William (who we're seeing the 'origin' story of in his scenes).
2. His goal is to "free" the hosts so that Delores -- who he's loved all these years -- will finally be able to love him back.
3. Everything else he says about the game is just a ruse to himself; his actual end-game is to win Delores... or at least set her free because he loves her that much.

Chances are he's probably also dying of some terminal disease, which is why he's going all-out on this trip to the park. Which would make the latter part of #3 above the most likely desire.

Didnt the man in black drag her into the barn to assault her?

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Well, what it doesn't is make it anything more than someone's theory. Also, it doesn't make sense in a few ways, plus it would be a bit too convoluted the way they've made it. So, yeah... Almost certainly not correct, and if it is, then it's horribly bad writing.

There's far more evidence for it than there is against it (different logos for him vs. the current time frame; why the subway station was clean and new and bright when he arrived but the other time we've seen it was worn down and all but abandoned; how Lawrence magically teleported from being badly damaged, dead, and miles and miles away from Pariah to being 'alive' and well and in an ongoing storyline IN Pariah for a story that's been running for at least several hours; why they're keeping the Man in Black's name a secret despite people having already recognized him and having ZERO other reason of keeping it a secret, etc.).

So if they really are in the past with the William scenes, what's going on with Delores back then? It looks like she's being infected by the reverie code but if that's the case William can't be the man in black

One word answer: Arnold.

The so-called "reverie" code is just what they think was causing the problem. But they were clearly wrong as despite having the code rolled-back, the issues are still coming to a front. Arnold is the one responsible, and the various hosts that are awakening are doing so do to whatever it was he originally did to allow them to awaken "naturally" over time as they evolve rather than artificially through a few lines of code. Or something along those lines.

Didnt the man in black drag her into the barn to assault her?

That was implied, but not shown (and keep in mind this show has no issue showing sex scenes; benign or otherwise). She was reacting that way because it was part of the storyline. We have no idea what he did inside the barn, and I'm sure we'll find out in a future flashback at some point.

[cyberglum]

There's far more evidence for it than there is against it.

Well, in the last episode we had 2 seperate scenes; one with the Man in Black in and one with William in. In both scenes the "events of 30(34) years ago" were mentioned.

This would indicate that the Man in Black and William are not the same person from 2 different time frames.

Thats pretty solid evidence against the theory.

[melodramocracy]

William is fucking mental, no seriously. He lets Logan gets beaten up and captured, which probably means nothing tbh because they can't kill him, (even so, wtf) but William already doesn't see this as a game since he said earlier he doesn't want to take part in all of the gory stuff (has this guy never played a video game in his life? probably not tbh) but he just lets his brother in law get captured?

Another thing I dont get, is the guy in black a douchebag irl too? He really sounds like a psychopath too, yet he owns a medical corporation? What the fuck?

Also why doesn't Robert just retire Dolores considering she's going nuts. Oh and speaking of which, this has to be the shittiest company to work in. 0 communication and everyone is a dickhead.

William isn't mental at all, he just doesn't see the point of inflicting violence on anything else just because he can. As far as Logan, he's a cunt, and I'd have let him get his ass kicked as well.

The guy in black probably is a sociopath, and uses the park to let loose. Robert won't retire Dolores because her ties to Arnold are important to him on some level. He's not driven merely by money, as some of the others in the company are.

This man in black theory is weak, and it will be a terrible let down if it's true. I'm guessing that there are / were 2 Lawrence's simply because MIB is causing storylines to spin a bit out of control (hence the meeting between MIB and Ford in the first place).

I'm still wondering how the logistical stuff gets pulled off. Hosts can be retrieved / repaired / sent back rather quickly, but to imply that this sort of thing happens without guests stumbling upon it is hard to believe. Also, guests injuring / killing each other isn't a risk?

[Arrowstormen]

Two Lawrences is not too hard for me to believe either, since the first Lawrence dies before the next one pops up. There's nothing that indicates that these two aren't part of the same loop, the one with the Man in Black was just at the end of his loop while the one with William and Logan is at the start.

[Xilurm]

I'm not sure what playing a video game has to do with anything. I've played plenty of video games, some very gory. That's just pixels though. I wouldn't want to partake in something like that in real life, even if they are just AI.

What about virtual reality then, because that would more or less be the same case.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Well, in the last episode we had 2 seperate scenes; one with the Man in Black in and one with William in. In both scenes the "events of 30(34) years ago" were mentioned.

Feel free to quote the ones from William's scenes. (Hint: Revelations will be had when you do.)

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This man in black theory is weak, and it will be a terrible let down if it's true.

No it's not. You're just upset that you didn't realize it on your own and are pissy because you realized that people on the Internet pay better attention than you do.

I'm guessing that there are / were 2 Lawrence's simply because MIB is causing storylines to spin a bit out of control (hence the meeting between MIB and Ford in the first place).

<huge buzzer sound> Wrong for so many reasons.

1.) They don't replace them that quickly; Lawrence was severely damaged even before he was killed, and they've shown that it takes quite a bit of time to retrieve, repair, clean, and replace them. 2.) There are no multiple copies of the same 'model' of host (else they would have simply rolled in a proper replacement for Delores' father). 3.) The storylines that both Lawrences were in were drastically different. 4.) Both storylines took place in drastically different areas of the park. 5.) They don't switch host storylines on a whim, only when something has severely gone wrong which wasn't the case here.

And that's just off the top of my head. I can probably go on if need be.

I'm still wondering how the logistical stuff gets pulled off. Hosts can be retrieved / repaired / sent back rather quickly, but to imply that this sort of thing happens without guests stumbling upon it is hard to believe.

No, it doesn't happen quickly. We've seen that it takes some time, and we've seen that they do it when guests have moved on to other locations in the park (occasionally creating a new event nearby so to draw them there).

Also, guests injuring / killing each other isn't a risk?

Do you really pay that little attention? That was the point of Teddy's presence in this last episode; to show us that the hosts have a Good Samaritan safeguard in place to intervene when they detect something exceeding a certain threshold of danger for a guest. (I'm sure that's going to be another "weak letdown" for you, though, since you didn't comprehend that yourself without having someone tell it to you, too.) But yes, there's still a risk despite that. But it's also one of the things you simply have to accept about the show for the premise to work. In reality, neither hosts nor guests would ever have live ammunition and real knives wouldn't be an option.

[melodramocracy]

No it's not. You're just upset that you didn't realize it on your own and are pissy because you realized that people on the Internet pay better attention than you do.

Because all fan theories are correct theories. And I'm not the one being pissy here. Carry on.

[Dasffion]

What about virtual reality then, because that would more or less be the same case.

VR as it is now? That's not even close to the same thing. If some kind of super advanced VR then yes it would be the same case and wouldn't be cool with it. Funny you mention VR though because I'm currently rereading the otherland series and several of the characters feel the same way, shocked and disgusted by the things that some people do in the virtual environment even though it's really all just code

[cyberglum]

Feel free to quote the ones from William's scenes. (Hint: Revelations will be had when you do.)

Actually you're right. I'm assuming we're talking about the same scene, when Logan and William first arrive at the sexytime town. They refer to the event but don't give a time frame indicating how long ago it happened.

Cheers for making me re-watch the scene. I'm not adverse to this theory tbh, I guess I was just fooled (as was the writers intent I assume) by the dialogue.

[Dasffion]

One word answer: Arnold.

The so-called "reverie" code is just what they think was causing the problem. But they were clearly wrong as despite having the code rolled-back, the issues are still coming to a front. Arnold is the one responsible, and the various hosts that are awakening are doing so do to whatever it was he originally did to allow them to awaken "naturally" over time as they evolve rather than artificially through a few lines of code. Or something along those lines.

So there you go, just another theory. One that pretty much hangs on this one point. You're making the assumption that it's Arnold and not the reverie code (which they didn't fully roll back btw). There's no evidence for it.

Feel free to quote the ones from William's scenes. (Hint: Revelations will be had when you do.)

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No it's not. You're just upset that you didn't realize it on your own and are pissy because you realized that people on the Internet pay better attention than you do.


<huge buzzer sound> Wrong for so many reasons.

1.) They don't replace them that quickly; Lawrence was severely damaged even before he was killed, and they've shown that it takes quite a bit of time to retrieve, repair, clean, and replace them. 2.) There are no multiple copies of the same 'model' of host (else they would have simply rolled in a proper replacement for Delores' father). 3.) The storylines that both Lawrences were in were drastically different. 4.) Both storylines took place in drastically different areas of the park. 5.) They don't switch host storylines on a whim, only when something has severely gone wrong which wasn't the case here.

And that's just off the top of my head. I can probably go on if need be.


No, it doesn't happen quickly. We've seen that it takes some time, and we've seen that they do it when guests have moved on to other locations in the park (occasionally creating a new event nearby so to draw them there).


Do you really pay that little attention? That was the point of Teddy's presence in this last episode; to show us that the hosts have a Good Samaritan safeguard in place to intervene when they detect something exceeding a certain threshold of danger for a guest. (I'm sure that's going to be another "weak letdown" for you, though, since you didn't comprehend that yourself without having someone tell it to you, too.) But yes, there's still a risk despite that. But it's also one of the things you simply have to accept about the show for the premise to work. In reality, neither hosts nor guests would ever have live ammunition and real knives wouldn't be an option.

I've seen 0 indications on exactly how long it takes for them to get a host back in the park. For all we know it could happen in a night, or it could take months. If you have support for it taking a long time please post it.

[ItachiZaku]

I've seen 0 indications on exactly how long it takes for them to get a host back in the park. For all we know it could happen in a night, or it could take months. If you have support for it taking a long time please post it.

It hasn't made indications that it's a 24/7/365 theme park either, can very easily be a Friday - Sunday place, to allow for maintenance.

[Xilurm]

VR as it is now? That's not even close to the same thing. If some kind of super advanced VR then yes it would be the same case and wouldn't be cool with it. Funny you mention VR though because I'm currently rereading the otherland series and several of the characters feel the same way, shocked and disgusted by the things that some people do in the virtual environment even though it's really all just code

I meant advanced VR. I doubt people would feel the same way when actual VR comes around tho.

[draynay]

MIB is causing storylines to spin a bit out of control (hence the meeting between MIB and Ford in the first place).

I found the meeting interesting, I see Ford as the gamemaster, trying to get a feel for what MIB is after. The storylines aren't really out of control, Ford is making efforts to give the MIB what he wants, he introduced Wyatt and then laid out the clues for MIB to go after him. MIB is a very creative player, his interests seem to differ from the other patrons, so perhaps the effort to get him out on his own doing his own thing are doubly beneficial in that way. What I don't know is Ford's interest in Arnold's mystery being unraveled, does Ford already know and need to protect the secret? does Ford want to know and has the instrument with which to discover it? does Ford want the world to know but doesn't want to let it out himself? Ford's motives are what I still feel in the dark about.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

I've seen 0 indications on exactly how long it takes for them to get a host back in the park. For all we know it could happen in a night, or it could take months. If you have support for it taking a long time please post it.

Anything more than half an hour or so is too long for the two Lawrences to work. Jesus Christ, the intentional obtusiveness of some of you people is amazing...

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Actually you're right. I'm assuming we're talking about the same scene, when Logan and William first arrive at the sexytime town. They refer to the event but don't give a time frame indicating how long ago it happened.

Cheers for making me re-watch the scene. I'm not adverse to this theory tbh, I guess I was just fooled (as was the writers intent I assume) by the dialogue.

Yes, they definitely keep adding in red herrings to throw people off the scent, that's for sure. The other big one was when they transitioned from the 'present' scene when Delores' farmhouse is being attacked and she "snaps" and rides away, followed with her showing up in the next scene with William and Logan. But if you pay close attention, you realize that when Delores snapped, she was having a flashback to (presumably) a past storyline that she was in amongst other things. So that transition makes perfect sense; we're seeing what Delores is remembering from that point forward. Intermixed with all the scenes of her simultaneously being interviewed despite still being in the field with William and Logan. Which is even more proof that they jump around in time quite a bit on the show.

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So there you go, just another theory. One that pretty much hangs on this one point. You're making the assumption that it's Arnold and not the reverie code (which they didn't fully roll back btw). There's no evidence for it.

Of course I am, because that's what the show has been saying for the last few episodes.

And yes, they did do a full roll-back of the Reverie code. They even complained about how after doing so they were still getting malfunctions. Try paying better attention.

[Immitis]

they certainly WANT US to think there is two timelines. and it certainly was my first thought but i dont think thats the case anymore but whatever is going on theres a reason why he and delores are so separate from everyone else and theres been zero intersection except for one scene that might have just been clever editing

something fishy is going on. but i dont think hes the man in black. if he was why are the hosts so advanced? if it were 30 years ago when the park first opened we should be seeing the junkbots who can only say a couple phrases and lack proper ai

[Doctor Funkenstein]

they certainly WANT US to think there is two timelines.

No, they WANT us to think there ISN'T two timelines. That's the entire point of all the red herrings they keep throwing at the audience. It's the gullible ones who think there isn't multiple timelines at play despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[Immitis]

No, they WANT us to think there ISN'T two timelines. That's the entire point of all the red herrings they keep throwing at the audience. It's the gullible ones who think there isn't multiple timelines at play despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

then why are the hosts so advanced?