Kara will be queueable

[BannedForViews]

Why would non-key turners need the mount out of hundreds of others?


Everyone is getting access to content, while keeping it in original form should people chose to do so that way.

Sounds like everybody wins!

Your arguments are so played out. You are the mlg tictactoe cartoon, in real life. Nobody "needs" any of this, but the fact is it is an earned rewards based game. It is not, for example, a pay to win game (even though it is and will always be possible to pay others to do it for you, but not to pay the company itself). There are things in the gake you have to earn either through a repetitive grind, and marginal knowledge of game mechanics and your class, luck, or even a lot of skill relative to other players, or just the game itself. Gladiator mounts arent given out to random bg'ers. Khthic dungeon mounts arent given out in looking for raid. Even heroic dungeon (now mythic) mounts from old expansions are not given to runs of the normal version, even after that xpac is 8 years old, looking at you anzu from tbc. Why would they dumb down the relatively easy requirements to get nightbane mere months after it came out? They of course can, and might, but it would be foolish and insulting to anyone who earned this meager accomplishment.

Things dont just come free in the game because you pay a monthly sub. You still have to play the game and not be terrible at it.

[SirCowdog]

How is me saying that you should have to do the content yourself to see the rewards the same as me saying you can't play the game at all?

What the hell is wrong with you?

/facepalm


People who play at lower difficulties ARE doing the content themselves. You seem to be operating under the flawed assumption that anyone who doesn't play at the same level as you isn't still struggling, or trying to complete the content. You're asking for people who play at lower difficulties to be completely denied completion of content and lore and experiencing the game at all unless they play at the same level as you.

The entire concept of different difficulty settings on videogames is SPECIFICALLY there to allow people of all skill ranges to play the game. I don't have any problems with the suggestion of a "true ending" on the highest difficulty. WoW already does that in raids. It's cool! It's awesome! But you're saying that only a single difficulty, the "true" difficulty, should be the only one AVAILABLE, and if people can't play at that level then they need to GTFO.

I'm sorry, that just doesn't work. If WoW did that it would fail and go F2P within a year, top. Elite players who can complete difficulty at that level simply aren't a large enough customer base to support the continued development of a game which would operate ONLY at that level. That's just simple math.

[grandgato]

In a way I am glad they let the cat out of the box early. Time to move on.

I am curious why them adding an easier version with inferior rewards would somehow detract from your enjoyment of working towards or completing the more challenging and better rewarding version? Was your fun derived from others not having fun?

[Deleted]

It means finding 4 people and doing the dungeons. You need to put in effort because it is a game not a toy. If you go to play soccer with a team and refuse to do anything but sit in the center of the field it isn't much of a game.

Yet you can join a group of random people kicking a ball and play a little nice game of football. You don't need to act like fricking Ronaldo to enjoy it.

[mysticx]

I get the feeling that a lot of people here haven't even attempted any difficulty outside of heroic dungeons, which makes me quite sad. Blizzard should be trying to incentivize that instead of knocking the game down to fit inside the bubble of queuing for heroics ad infinitum.

Blizz tried to incentivize running dungeons in mythic with mythic-exclusive dungeons, that seems to have failed in an exceptionally spectacular fashion, given the speed of the U-turn they're making on the whole thing, as it turns out you can nudge a person to mythic, but you can't force them to run it.

[Darkeon]

Your arguments are so played out. You are the mlg tictactoe cartoon, in real life. Nobody "needs" any of this, but the fact is it is an earned rewards based game. It is not, for example, a pay to win game (even though it is and will always be possible to pay others to do it for you, but not to pay the company itself). There are things in the gake you have to earn either through a repetitive grind, and marginal knowledge of game mechanics and your class, luck, or even a lot of skill relative to other players, or just the game itself. Gladiator mounts arent given out to random bg'ers. Khthic dungeon mounts arent given out in looking for raid. Even heroic dungeon (now mythic) mounts from old expansions are not given to runs of the normal version, even after that xpac is 8 years old, looking at you anzu from tbc. Why would they dumb down the relatively easy requirements to get nightbane mere months after it came out? They of course can, and might, but it would be foolish and insulting to anyone who earned this meager accomplishment.

Things dont just come free in the game because you pay a monthly sub. You still have to play the game and not be terrible at it.

Thank Metzen we still have Mythic+ for all your difficulty needs

[Deleted]

This mentality in WoW ONLY surfaced when LFR and LFD became a thing, and it's absurd and terrible game design.

Before LFR/LFD:
- you had to spend consistent time to form a party
- you had to move to dungeon entrance, this can took some time also
- on pvp servers you actually had to make it until there cos was no flying
- losing a member from dungeon pretty much ended your adventure
- there was a SINGLE difficulty and the rewards was blue, with a few exceptions 0,01% of epic
- ninja need was also a thing
- world was huge
- dungeons was more to explore the content and lore first, then gear (imo)

I only miss huge world and adventure, rest was lost time.

[BannedForViews]

People running -any- difficulty are already putting time and effort and getting rewarded accordingly. Sorry, champ!

You have a very weak understanding of what effort and rewards mean, seeing as how you just argued that nightbane should spawn in random repeatsble heroic kara.

[SirCowdog]

I am curious why them adding an easier version with inferior rewards would somehow detract from your enjoyment of working towards or completing the more challenging and better rewarding version? Was your fun derived from others not having fun?

I'm pretty sure this is EXACTLY what's going on for a lot of people, even if they didn't realize it. Being part of a special, exclusive group can be an intoxicating feeling.

[Scottyjscizzle]

When it comes to difficulty there is zero difference in NM and HM. Its not hard to reach ilvl 820 even on a fresh 110 or even more so on a alt. So yes do WQ's and NM dungeons to gear up into Heroic+ Dungeons.

Heroic's are clearly not fine and is why they are tuning them. Heroic's should be a stepping stone into mythic's and they are not. The difficulty spike from heroic to mythic is massive and barely any from NM to Heroic.

I didn't notice any real increase in difficulty until i did a mythic+, regular mythic just feels like an old heroic. Heroics just feel like normal and normal i don't even know why they require groups or exist at this point.

[Boogums]

and also archway and cos becoming available in queue, finally they acknowledge the error.

Making it queueable isn't necessarily acknowledging an error. It's very possible this is the trend. Even numbered patch brings new mythic only dungeons, subsequent odd numbered patch gives those mythic onlys a heroic option.

[Darkeon]

You have a very weak understanding of what effort and rewards mean, seeing as how you just argued that nightbane should spawn in random repeatsble heroic kara.

And why would that be a bad thing? Lots of really prestigious mounts were previously locked behind Heroics. Attach a timer to it's farming and make a vine out of it!

[primalmatter]

It's both, game and toy. And despite your soccer metaphor which bears no relationship to any sort of reality that I'm aware of, if you choose to sit out of group content you won't "sit in the center of the field", you can do a variety of other things.

I am afraid I am missing the point you are trying to make...

Blizzard has struggled to make rewarding five man content since cata. They tried challenge mode but time attacks just don't appeal to a lot of people. Now that they made a successful system we are seeing a repeat of jealous players demanding it be brought down to their level. This mentality killed heroic dungeons until they just became normal mode with a new name.

Why is it in their minds its fine if people who are enjoying the content will need to get to 10+ stones in order to enjoy what they had before?

We have seen this happen over and over again and they are never even satisfied when they do get what they want they simply want a Ballon because someone else has one.

[Deleted]

You still have to play the game and not be terrible at it.

Who said that?

We did 40 man raids WITH "terrible" peoples by your standards, but great and helpful friends, and a few wifes/womens/girls who did not excel to much at dps or tactics, but dude, was epic from start to end, you can't understand this, because your kind of mentality made ilevel and dps metter a thing and totally ignored the whole point of community and having real fun.

[Deleted]

Now that they made a successful system we are seeing a repeat of jealous players demanding it be brought down to their level. This mentality killed heroic dungeons until they just became normal mode with a new name.

What's with strawmans and this thread? No one is demanding anything, the mythic versions aren't going away, they will just add a lower difficulty and making queueable so everyone can enjoy the content at their intent.

[BannedForViews]

How is me saying that you should have to do the content yourself to see the rewards the same as me saying you can't play the game at all?

What the hell is wrong with you?

This just proves the point of raiders. Pve wow is all about raiding. People who dont want to "git gud" and raid complain they are being denied the game, even though that part of the game serves no purpose to them. The simple fsct it exists and they know it does, but they havent stepped foot in it irks them to hell. Its just pure envy, nothing more. I didnt hate other people because tyey cleared sunwell and i didnt, but now we have this mentality that if it exists, i want it, even if i cant esrn it, so you need to dumb it down for me so i can feel special for doing it. I mean lfr xavius is basically the same as mythic xavius right???

[SirCowdog]

This was literally how the game was it's entire peak, only after it started to do what you are suggesting did it start to tumble.

I'm not saying there is a correlation necessarily, but that doing what they did with Vanilla, BC, and WOTLK would completely destroy the game is ridiculous and demonstrably untrue.

Here's a reality check for you: It's not 10 years ago.

Sorry, the gaming and MMO environment have changed. What was acceptable back then when many of the concepts were still new, simply isn't feasible NOW. Specifically, Blizzard has built WoW by catering more and more to ALL ranges of players. If they had not, WoW very likely would have already declined even MORE.

But that's all speculation. Even TBC and WotLK had normal modes for almost all of their content. IIRC WotLK was the expansion that first started using hard modes on raids specifically to give players more options. The game has evolved to the state it's in now, and so have the players. Trying to go backwards to only creating content for a tiny portion of the playerbase isn't a feasible option.

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Making it queueable isn't necessarily acknowledging an error. It's very possible this is the trend. Even numbered patch brings new mythic only dungeons, subsequent odd numbered patch gives those mythic onlys a heroic option.

I'm actually ok with that, in the same way I'm ok with delaying LFR content in a staggered release behind higher raid difficulties.

- - - Updated - - -

I am afraid I am missing the point you are trying to make...

Blizzard has struggled to make rewarding five man content since cata. They tried challenge mode but time attacks just don't appeal to a lot of people. Now that they made a successful system we are seeing a repeat of jealous players demanding it be brought down to their level. This mentality killed heroic dungeons until they just became normal mode with a new name.

Why is it in their minds its fine if people who are enjoying the content will need to get to 10+ stones in order to enjoy what they had before?

We have seen this happen over and over again and they are never even satisfied when they do get what they want they simply want a Ballon because someone else has one.

Except that CMs only had a single setting. Mythic+ scales up with your group's skill and gear. It's a self-correcting system. However much it gets nerfed, the system will still provide progressively harder and harder difficulty. It actually makes nerfing it pointless.

[BannedForViews]

/facepalm


People who play at lower difficulties ARE doing the content themselves. You seem to be operating under the flawed assumption that anyone who doesn't play at the same level as you isn't still struggling, or trying to complete the content. You're asking for people who play at lower difficulties to be completely denied completion of content and lore and experiencing the game at all unless they play at the same level as you.

The entire concept of different difficulty settings on videogames is SPECIFICALLY there to allow people of all skill ranges to play the game. I don't have any problems with the suggestion of a "true ending" on the highest difficulty. WoW already does that in raids. It's cool! It's awesome! But you're saying that only a single difficulty, the "true" difficulty, should be the only one AVAILABLE, and if people can't play at that level then they need to GTFO.

I'm sorry, that just doesn't work. If WoW did that it would fail and go F2P within a year, top. Elite players who can complete difficulty at that level simply aren't a large enough customer base to support the continued development of a game which would operate ONLY at that level. That's just simple math.

They did it in tbc and had their highest subs from it. There were still guilds trying to clesr t5 when we were in sunwell. It was wonderful actually. It showed perseverance. Many other video games have only had one difficulty and are viewed as iconic and wonderful. Seeing content isnt what is important. Defeating the challenge is. Only losers dont get this.

[mysticx]

Because the only incentive was gear. They should add random mounts and pets or some shit casuals like. If a casual isn't doing mythics they aren't going to suddenly start because they can get mythic gear XD

Well, the main incentive i meant was the mythic exclusivity of the two Suramar mythics and the marquee-feature of 7.1: Karazhan, a place with a big place in many players' hearts, i expected Blizz to somehow budge on the mythic-only status of such a big-name place eventually, but for them to do a 180 so very quickly after releasing it means that despite the big name, storied history and (What i could see from the preview shots) awesome design, means that participation figures must be extremely low...

[primalmatter]

Here's a reality check for you: It's not 10 years ago.

Sorry, the gaming and MMO environment have changed. What was acceptable back then when many of the concepts were still new, simply isn't feasible NOW. Specifically, Blizzard has built WoW by catering more and more to ALL ranges of players. If they had not, WoW very likely would have already declined even MORE.

But that's all speculation. Even TBC and WotLK had normal modes for almost all of their content. IIRC WotLK was the expansion that first started using hard modes on raids specifically to give players more options. The game has evolved to the state it's in now, and so have the players. Trying to go backwards to only creating content for a tiny portion of the playerbase isn't a feasible option.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm actually ok with that, in the same way I'm ok with delaying LFR content in a staggered release behind higher raid difficulties.

- - - Updated - - -



Except that CMs only had a single setting. Mythic+ scales up with your group's skill and gear. It's a self-correcting system. However much it gets nerfed, the system will still provide progressively harder and harder difficulty. It actually makes nerfing it pointless.

What if I told you the idea of getting a 20+ keystone to start where I was before it became a queue isn't exactly appealing to me?

You can try to say they won't be nerf ed that hard but my memory of doing a normal dungeon in wod on a alt still sends a shiver down my spine.