What's the deal with shamans?

[Mahourai]

Toxic is one of those buzz words ...

Holy fuck, please do not quote or reply to my posts in the future.

[Pantalaimon]

Holy fuck, please do not quote or reply to my posts in the future.

Last I checked this is a public forum. Thanks for the spam notification though.

[Mahourai]

You attempt to pass off "toxic" as a buzzword. Hmm, maybe the sense I'm using it is is obvious from the context of the post? Maybe I mean the deck is unhealthy in that it has 1 weak matchup against any other competitive deck, comprises almost 25% of the ladder as a whole as well as the high-end portion of ranked, and is the only tier 1 deck?

The rest of your post is just noise:

Midrange Shaman is strong because Blizzard has not released either individual cards that more evenly distribute power across a wider variety of decks and/or has not allowed enough opportunities for different synergies/combos for different plays.

Like, jesus. This sentence reads "Midrange Shaman is good because other decks aren't as good". This is the kind of shit a seventh grader would write to fill space on an essay. It's tautological and completely meaningless.

[Pantalaimon]

You attempt to pass off "toxic" as a buzzword. Hmm, maybe the sense I'm using it is is obvious from the context of the post? Maybe I mean the deck is unhealthy in that it has 1 weak matchup against any other competitive deck, comprises almost 25% of the ladder as a whole as well as the high-end portion of ranked, and is the only tier 1 deck?

The rest of your post is just noise:



Like, jesus. This sentence reads "Midrange Shaman is good because other decks aren't as good". This is the kind of shit a seventh grader would write to fill space on an essay. It's tautological and completely meaningless.

Do you always get this triggered by people who don't agree with you on forums?

Explain to me how the term 'toxic' in hearthstone is anything other than a buzz word. People throw the term around for pretty much anything they dislike or lose to. Aggro is toxic, C'Thun is toxic, OTKs are toxic, rng is toxic, freeze mage is toxic, CotW is toxic, etc, etc, etc. The term has no precise meaning so I feel it is very valid to question your use of it in the previous post in regards to what Midrange Shaman actually is. I for one do not consider it "toxic", while on the other hand I feel aggro shaman is the much bigger concern simply because in my opinion the over-prevalence the archtype has really hindered the game for a long time, even if aggro still serves a purpose in the game. Midrange on the other hand has been 'tier one' far less often than aggro has in comparison since HS beta. I'm not freaking out if it stays at the top for a little bit longer until we get new cards.

Not to mention the deck will be further weakened when the next rotation cycles cards out. I see no need for the incessant QQing. Some days your favored decks are on top and others the guy you hate swapped places with your deck and you're now on bottom. Sucks, but them's the rocks.

[Mahourai]

Do you always get this triggered by people who don't agree with you on forums?

Explain to me how the term 'toxic' in hearthstone is anything other than a buzz word. People throw the term around for pretty much anything they dislike or lose to. Aggro is toxic, C'Thun is toxic, OTKs are toxic, rng is toxic, freeze mage is toxic, CotW is toxic, etc, etc, etc.

You're not responding to people. You're responding to one person who outlined clear and specific reasons the metagame is currently unhealthy, which you didn't address.

I for one do not consider it "toxic", while on the other hand I feel aggro shaman is the much bigger concern simply because in my opinion the over-prevalence the archtype has really hindered the game for a long time, even if aggro still serves a purpose in the game. Midrange on the other hand has been 'tier one' far less often than aggro has in comparison since HS beta.

Aggro Shaman has already been nerfed - in fact one of the reasons Midrange Shaman is so prevalent is because the faster variants were deemphasized with the nerfs to Tuskarr Totemic and Rockbiter removing explosive early and mid-game swings. How the fuck can aggro still be a bigger concern? Because it went on for longer? And you're talking about "aggro shaman" like it's fucking synonymous with any other aggressive early game deck, like it's been good since beta.

I'm not freaking out if it stays at the top for a little bit longer until we get new cards.

What makes you think new cards are going to solve anything, any more than Karazhan's release or the nerf wave solved anything? Blizzard's last round of solutions quite literally created the problem.

[Pantalaimon]

You're not responding to people. You're responding to one person who outlined clear and specific reasons the metagame is currently unhealthy, which you didn't address.



Aggro Shaman has already been nerfed - in fact one of the reasons Midrange Shaman is so prevalent is because the faster variants were deemphasized with the nerfs to Tuskarr Totemic and Rockbiter removing explosive early and mid-game swings. How the fuck can aggro still be a bigger concern? Because it went on for longer? And you're talking about "aggro shaman" like it's fucking synonymous with any other aggressive early game deck, like it's been good since beta.



What makes you think new cards are going to solve anything, any more than Karazhan's release or the nerf wave solved anything? Blizzard's last round of solutions quite literally created the problem.

I don't necessarily agree that the meta is unhealthy right now. Imo there have been previous metas that have been much worse. Since there is not objective rubric for what a healthy or unhealthy meta should be I choose to approach it by comparing current metas to what we've ended up with prior to the current rendition of the game, hence by comparison it isn't unhealthy imo.

Perhaps I should have been clearer in my points about solving more of aggro shaman's problems. You're right it isn't the full entire aggro shaman deck that is the lingering problem now, but the aggro shaman plays, namely the large abundance of spells that can go face. I guess powered up Doomhammer swings could technically cause the same scale of problem as spells. The problem with that playstyle is that the opponent simply wins if they can apply enough pressure long enough to vomit their hand. Those are the aggro playstyles that should be addressed still.

Maybe because I am relatively optimistic about changes that the game can bring in the future? In addition, Blizzard can choose to make more cards like Healbot, Belcher, and Reno Jackson (or better) if they choose to. The game can wildly swing in any direction with any adventure or expansion that comes along. Just because so many players want to jump on the Sky is falling!/Blizzard white knight assault bandwagon because Karazhan wasn't BRM or LoE 2.0 doesn't mean I don't realize that we can still get very unexpected meta changing curveballs like Reno or N'Zoth in the future. It's simple really.

Plus I believe in card game companies producing new cards to play around existing metas and make players actually think, as opposed to crying about something until it gets the nerf/ban hammer.

[xenogear3]

Good shamans don't have "7/7 for 4 mana" in their decks.

[Blueobelisk]

Good shamans don't have "7/7 for 4 mana" in their decks.

I do because I don't have Harrison Jones or Ragnaros.

[Blueobelisk]

What are strong decks against people climbing ladder playing shaman?

I just looked at some statistics from my deck tracker. Went from rank 17 to rank 5 this season.



(Only like 3 or 7 games are missing that I played on my phone.)

I really only lost to Zoo. (Not Warlock in general, I beat that handlock (Renolock?) that called me an inbred faggot.)

68% is an okay win-rate. I feel like it's padded because I cruised through 17 to 13, which I don't consider to be good.

Although if I had fucking Ragnaros or Harrison Jones, as I complained before, we'd probably have an even better win rate.

[minteK917]

Shaman is retarded right now, this blizzcon will look like a complete joke, because shaman has 100% ban rate and the rest is made out of the same 4 decks. We are lucky someone had the balls to bring one paladin and priest deck (the same person). Ladder is also made of the same 4 decks as soon as you hit 5+ Shaman making up almost 40% of everything youll fight. The rest devided amoung druids, secret hunters, control warrior. This is by far the most shitty this game has been since its begining. Paladin, Priest, Rogue are literally gone from the game. The fact they had the balls to gut rogues board clear and leave shaman like this for all this time is ridiculous at this point.

If you play shaman 10 games in total, you already know why the class is currently retard proof and needs to be fucking nerfed already. Even the mid range deck has the early game to compete with a zoo deck, it can fill the board every fucking turn. 0 mana 5/5 taunt. Thunderbluff valian. Its a fucking aggro deck, with mutliple board clear, can spawn minions out of thin air, can buff minions out of thin air, has room for meta cards like Ragnaros and Harrison,

When im able to beat control warriors into fatigue as mid range shaman, you know the game is fucking dumb. The poor guy monkey was his last card, he cleared by board 6 times at least, too bad he only had 6 hp left when he monkied.

The only counter so to speak is freeze mage, if you can even call it a counter. Its just able to win if the shaman doesent draw well. If the freeze mage doesent find the cards it needs before turn 8-9 it probably already lost while it was trying to stall.

[HisDudeness]

Should have been around here when this forum was being lead by a cavalry of people, ill leave out names, who said standard is going to CHANGE!!!! this game for the GOOD!!! This is going to give us more selection and a wider variety. And then their was me going...nope..not a chance in hell. This game will always be the same. It was just plain ridiculous the amount of people who defended it blindly. Now watch! The same guys are going to come here with well you need to do this to counter it or do that or play this deck yadda yadda like you draw these cards in sync perfectly. The decks you mentioned don't need played good or even average to win.

Drives me absolutely nuts people coming here with hey you need to counter with this you need to do that. No fucking shit Sherlock. We all know this. It's Hearthstone. You gotta get lucky enough to draw into this stuff when trying different decks then the usual 80% of the community. My solution? Play arena and pull your hair out there against mages/pallies/rogues. At least there, sometimes, you face shitty versions of those decks from time to time.

[FobManX]

What makes midrange Shaman so good is that it can literally do everything at, at the very least, an above average level, if not amazing. It has efficient removal, AOE, card draw, burst, board presence, and tempo swingers.

Its made constructed unplayable for me.

[minteK917]

Should have been around here when this forum was being lead by a cavalry of people, ill leave out names, who said standard is going to CHANGE!!!! this game for the GOOD!!! This is going to give us more selection and a wider variety. And then their was me going...nope..not a chance in hell. This game will always be the same. It was just plain ridiculous the amount of people who defended it blindly. Now watch! The same guys are going to come here with well you need to do this to counter it or do that or play this deck yadda yadda like you draw these cards in sync perfectly. The decks you mentioned don't need played good or even average to win.

Drives me absolutely nuts people coming here with hey you need to counter with this you need to do that. No fucking shit Sherlock. We all know this. It's Hearthstone. You gotta get lucky enough to draw into this stuff when trying different decks then the usual 80% of the community. My solution? Play arena and pull your hair out there against mages/pallies/rogues. At least there, sometimes, you face shitty versions of those decks from time to time.

If you go back in pages right before they made standard i said we were trading secret paladin for an even stronger, pants on head retarded and boring shaman dominated meta for a full year. People made fun of me and said i was a scrub lmao.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-idea-on-paper

My thread one day after the patch, when i made my run to legend and saw this garbage. lmao i love it. Then again these board are kind bad when it comes to understanding cards games and fps. That thread about overwatch fov slider was even more retarded, thank god overwatch team actually listened to player with reason. I mean look at you idiots, reno to counter shaman... What.

Infracted - Keep it Civil

[HisDudeness]

Lol thats good stuff. Man I can't stand Dannyl or Nikkaszal. They don't understand this game one bit. You can't blame them though. They remind me of someone who boasts about being the king of tic tac toe. You gotta counter this X with this O. Then you play brawl and clear all the X's and O's. Then you bloodlust and just go 3 straight X's in a row and you win! Duh!

[Vankrys]

68% is an okay win-rate.

68% is insane win rate. If you can maintain that winrate in legend rank and play enough game, you pretty much are insure a place in blizzcon for the world championship.

Not really true because to go to blizzcon, you need an excelent win rate with several deck, shaman only get you 1 win in qualifier, bu still, 68% is a very very good win rate.

[minteK917]

68% is insane win rate. If you can maintain that winrate in legend rank and play enough game, you pretty much are insure a place in blizzcon for the world championship.

Not really true because to go to blizzcon, you need an excelent win rate with several deck, shaman only get you 1 win in qualifier, bu still, 68% is a very very good win rate.

Actually shaman gets you zero win, other players just ban it. Something the regular players dont have the luxury of.

[Pantalaimon]

Lol thats good stuff. Man I can't stand Dannyl or Nikkaszal. They don't understand this game one bit. You can't blame them though. They remind me of someone who boasts about being the king of tic tac toe. You gotta counter this X with this O. Then you play brawl and clear all the X's and O's. Then you bloodlust and just go 3 straight X's in a row and you win! Duh!

I can't help, but make reference to one of Trump's videos versus control priest, it was either before WotOGs or soon after it released, idr. He was playing a control paladin, the one with loads of healing and Justicar, and he countered the priest by playing around Entomb entirely, for the entire game. He didn't lay down Tirion for the priest to instantly Entomb it & all he simply did was "push the button" in order to constantly spawn two 1/1 tokens each turn to win. Sometimes all you do need to do to win is play a certain way to counter the other guy. Trump did this by not idiotically laying down his best minions & just beat down the opponent with other threats to force spell/minion removal that didn't end up saving the priest player.

[PPN]

Should have been around here when this forum was being lead by a cavalry of people, ill leave out names, who said standard is going to CHANGE!!!! this game for the GOOD!!! This is going to give us more selection and a wider variety.

How could someone say something like that??? So variety increases when you decrease card pool...lol...

Tbh after like 2-3 weeks of playing standard when they introduced it, i was about to quit the game, what was kind of a surprise, since until then i liked it a lot. Same decks over and over...additionaly mainly decks which were boring as fuck. Only switching to wild made me stay in the game. Its not like the variety would be overwhelming, but every now and then you meet something you didnt expect.

Also, i dont know how blizzard does it to manipulate ppl like this, but basicly what they do:

1. Sell you expansions
2. Remove the cards from the game for standard
3. Tell you its better

I know you can chose what mode to play...but still...that logic.

[Mormolyce]

From the looks of the Blizzcon announcement, next season Priests will be the new Shaman, so don't worry! :P

[HisDudeness]

Priest is the only class not at 60 for me! Maybe I'll abuse it.