Do you think Sylvanas vs Genn conflict is over in Legion?

[Mehrunes]

You are being flamebaited into discussing this.

It is the same people posting over and over again just to trigger others into discussion their perception.

Funny, the same could be said about you, M-Ra and Highwhale posting the same inaccurate nonsense in most Sylvanas related threads. And to call MikeBogina a common participant in threads on this topic is simply false.

Yeah because the dead edgy elf neckbeards fap at the sight of is so amazingly deep amirite.

I have to wonder if the people eternally triggered by Sylvanas aren't simply projecting their own fetishes when they vomit out this regurgitated nonsense year after year.

[Traveler Voltin]

Did this devolve into another sylvanas bash thread?

[Leyre]

the stupid conflict should have ended once genn took an arrow to the chest, lorna being able to develop an antitoxin for a poison wich, as far as we know, could have been made with sylv piss and crap its bullshit

[anaxie]

We're going to tomb of Sargeras in 7.2 not 7.1.

But no I think awhile ago they said somewhere that 7.1 (I think it was 7.1 they said) or a future patch would put some focus on Genn vs Sylvanas.

They mentioned trial of valor would bring closure to svanas legion story if I recall. Well see what happens because it looks like Helya is dying. If sylvanas plays a part in it Odyn may grant her some valkyr favors

[Friendlyimmolation]

Broken Shore just show us again what Horde is weak and you can't rely on them in serious battles. If something goes wrong they will save their own asses first and will not help their allies.

"how dare the Horde not jump off a cliff to get to the Alliance and die with them"

Stop being omnipotent. A/H DIDN'T KNEW ABOUT PILLARS AND THEY DID KNEW IT WAS A TRAP. They believed what if they kill Gul'dan they could close portal. It was NOW OR NEVER moment - when you sacrifice all for victory and pay bloody price. Horde wasn't ready to pay and prefered to save their sorry asses. Alliance retreated because Horde did - Varian and Co was making progress toward Gul'dan and had real chance to kill bastard.

There was never a chance to Kill Gul'dan there. In this situation did you forget the whole gaze of Sargeras?

Honor. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it. I believe true Horde died at Broken Shore with Varian. Its so ironic what Varian hated orc so much but he was the only one who followed their code. Now we have faction of cowards and backstabbing scum with hypocrite in charge.

there is no honor in dying for nothing, which would have happened if the Horde decided to stay. Gul'dan wasn't going to die there.

You DON'T know it for sure. Besides in opening cinematic Varian says what he SEE the possibility of his dying. Sylvanas? Nah she cares about her "life" too much. Thats why she executed last Vol'jin order without hesitation.

you mean the part where she looks down, closes her eyes, is still for a couple of seconds and then takes out the Val'kyr Horn?

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I have to wonder if the people eternally triggered by Sylvanas aren't simply projecting their own fetishes when they vomit out this regurgitated nonsense year after year.

Honestly you might be on to something, Its kinda odd to constantly bring that one point up. Its like the kid who calls people gay when he can't think of anything else during recess.

[pateuvasiliu]

I have to wonder if the people eternally triggered by Sylvanas aren't simply projecting their own fetishes when they vomit out this regurgitated nonsense year after year.

Whatever denial you need to engage in to get you through the lonely nights, bub.

[Mehrunes]

Ally who's actions always bring more deaths than main enemy do? Look it from Alliance perspective - Horde's members fucked up Wrathgate (yea i know it was renegades but still it's Sylvanas's fault if she can't keep her dogs on leash), they attacked Alliance at Broken Front (Icecrown). Now Broken Shore - i know Horde had struggles and was fucked up. But Genn/Jaina didn't knew that. In Genn/Jaina Horde is faction you can't rely on and they will betray you.

And it's Malfurion's fault Fandral attacked Thrall's wedding Broken Front happened after Varian declared war in Undercity so calling the factions allies at that point is yet another lie in your track record already well versed in that. And Horde actions didn't bring more deaths at Broken Shore than the Legion, claiming so it outright moronic. The Fel Reaver that caused most deaths wasn't even present when the Horde retreated. As for Genn and Jaina, the Fel Carriers that forced the Horde to retreat are visible from Alliance position at Broken Shore. They had all the information needed available to them, they just ignored because of their confirmation bias. You know, like you.

Broken Shore just show us again what Horde is weak and you can't rely on them in serious battles. If something goes wrong they will save their own asses first and will not help their allies.

Again? And when was the last time it happened? Besides, Horde had to fight more enemies and on two fronts, one of them babysitting the Alliance and depriving the Horde of their own anti-air support because Varian was too stupid to bring his own casters/rangers and to summon the gunship from the get go, and still managed to pull their weight until the Fel Carriers warped in and bombed their positions. If anything was weak and unreliable at Broken Shore it was the Alliance.

Stop being omnipotent. A/H DIDN'T KNEW ABOUT PILLARS AND THEY DID KNEW IT WAS A TRAP. They believed what if they kill Gul'dan they could close portal. It was NOW OR NEVER moment - when you sacrifice all for victory and pay bloody price. Horde wasn't ready to pay and prefered to save their sorry asses. Alliance retreated because Horde did - Varian and Co was making progress toward Gul'dan and had real chance to kill bastard.

They knew immediately after the fact though. And the poster Friendly was replying to wasn't even arguing from IC perspective making your "counterargument" meaningless. Plus their post was full of inaccurate information and nonsensical premise.

Honor. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it. I believe true Horde died at Broken Shore with Varian. Its so ironic what Varian hated orc so much but he was the only one who followed their code. Now we have faction of cowards and backstabbing scum with hypocrite in charge.

Saving the Horde wasn't particularly dishonorable. Also, faction of cowards and backstabbing scum? Let's see, Alliance retreated even though nothing really changed for them since they got anti-air covered once the gunship arrived. As for backstabbing, Battle for the Undercity, Night Elves breaking the trade treaty with Orgrimmar, Northwatch attack on Barrens shortly prior to the Cataclysm, Purge of Dalaran. And Jaina, the Sha of Hypocrisy, is one of the leaders. Now be a dear and give examples of this Horde backstabbings you conjured up in your mind. Or Sylvanas' hypocrisy.

This. Its the reason why Jaina was so pissed. The ally who you can't rely on is not ally at all.

Except coordinating a retreat wasn't feasible at all.

You DON'T know it for sure. Besides in opening cinematic Varian says what he SEE the possibility of his dying. Sylvanas? Nah she cares about her "life" too much. Thats why she executed last Vol'jin order without hesitation.

0:31-0:45 in Horde cinematic. No hesitation whatsoever on Sylvanas' part /s

Whatever denial you need to engage in to get you through the lonely nights, bub.

Again, given how your main contribution to Sylvanas' threads for years has been either spewing nonsense or spewing dogshit of "hurhurhur, the people who don't dislike the character that triggers my feeble sensibilities (and correct me on my conjured up pathological nonsense) must jack off to said character", I'd say things indicate a problem, and as such, also denial, on your part and your part only.

Honestly you might be on to something, Its kinda odd to constantly bring that one point up. Its like the kid who calls people gay when he can't think of anything else during recess.

Now if only there was an explanation to their victim complex.

[steelballfc]

Did this devolve into another sylvanas bash thread?

magnificent isn't ?

[3DTyrant]

The only way I can foresee the Sylvanas vs Genn thing will end (and this is only for between them two) is if one of them dies.

[Heladys]

Did this devolve into another sylvanas bash thread?

Every thread needs to be a Sylvanas bash thread.

[Magical Mudcrab]

I feel like something big will happen in this xpac but it won't end

I wouldn't get my hopes up yet. I'm currently betting on an rage-inducing Sargeras redemption storyline.

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And it's Malfurion's fault Fandral attacked Thrall's wedding

You can't blame Fandral for trying, he was just trying to save us from the horrors of Dragon Soul.

Broken Front happened after Varian declared war in Undercity so calling the factions allies at that point is yet another lie in your track record already well versed in that.

To be fair, you aren't free of liability because you can't control your people. Not so much the Horde's fault, as it is solely the Forsaken's fault for a string of very bad decisions and poor internal oversight.

And Horde actions didn't bring more deaths at Broken Shore than the Legion, claiming so it outright moronic. The Fel Reaver that caused most deaths wasn't even present when the Horde retreated. As for Genn and Jaina, the Fel Carriers that forced the Horde to retreat are visible from Alliance position at Broken Shore. They had all the information needed available to them, they just ignored because of their confirmation bias.

I still say that the Horde is partially to blame for doing an immediate withdrawal from the ridge, leaving the Alliance's flank open and requiring them for immediately retreat as well -- giving their backs to the enemy. However, I think everyone is pretty firmly set in their stances on what happened on the Broken Shore, so nothing productive will be gleamed from going over it again.

[Verdugo]

Yeah because the dead edgy elf neckbeards fap at the sight of is so amazingly deep amirite.

Why do you fap at a corpse you sicko.

[Highwhale]

"how dare the Horde not jump off a cliff to get to the Alliance and die with them"

Remember Hyjal Battle back in W3? Jaina made comes back to Thrall and teleported them away. Said Jaina help Thrall and Co found Ogrimmar (I mean killing her own father for Horde sake). Horde have debs to pay.

There was never a chance to Kill Gul'dan there. In this situation did you forget the whole gaze of Sargeras?

Did you saw "dont be omnipotent"? Like i said A/H when attacking Broken Shore saw opportunity to end it NOW and THERE. But there was price to pay. Vol'jin pissed his pants and was afraid of the losing Horde when it was about saving whole Azeroth.

you mean the part where she looks down, closes her eyes, is still for a couple of seconds and then takes out the Val'kyr Horn?

This hesitation was about to spend Valkyries for saving Horde or not. Its oblivious. Its also fun to see how Sylvanas runs away on horse with half dead Vol'jin ahead of everyone.

Broken Front happened after Varian declared war in Undercity so calling the factions allies at that point is yet another lie in your track record already well versed in that.

Then why people say what Genn is idiot for attacking Horde in Stormheim? I mean if Horde attack Alliance during war with LK at Broken Front it ok. But if Alliance attack Horde in Stormheim during war with Legion its bad and stupid?

Besides, Horde had to fight more enemies and on two fronts, one of them babysitting the Alliance and depriving the Horde of their own anti-air support because Varian was too stupid to bring his own casters/rangers and to summon the gunship from the get go, and still managed to pull their weight until the Fel Carriers warped in and bombed their positions. If anything was weak and unreliable at Broken Shore it was the Alliance.

Fun to read. Because if use your logic (gameplay logic) Horde are damn scrubs who wiped on trash when Alliance fought several Raid Bosses.

Now be a dear and give examples of this Horde backstabbings you conjured up in your mind.

Ashran. Broken Front (Horde attacked Alliance from back when Alliance fought Scourge). Wrathgate (Sylvanas can't keep her dogs on leash). Terrorists in Stonetalon Mountains that nuked CIVILIANS. BELFs in Dalaran what helped Garrosh back in MoP. I can continue if you want.

Or Sylvanas' hypocrisy.

Before ICC Sylvanas - We will kill Arthas who damned us to undead curse. After ICC Sylvanas - lets rise every body we can/found.

Except coordinating a retreat wasn't feasible at all.

Was or wasn't its doesn't matter. You work with someone who you call ally. You must.

[Zyky]

So as we know in patch 7.1 we're going to Tomb of Sargeras and in patch 7.2 we're going to Argus.

Might want to fix your numbers, 7.2 is Tomb and 7.3 is Argus.

On topic I'm sure we'll see little bits here and there during 7.2 on the Broken Shore. Its also possible that it'll be forced to be over. The story as of now is that Anduin never ordered Genn and the Grand Admiral(whatever her name is) to go to Stormheim. Originally it was going to be a different group of Alliance. What happened is that the fake Mathias Shaw, who was a dreadlord in disguise(you learn he was a dreadlord in the rogue campaign), took the orders and gave different orders that ended up sending Genn and the Admiral instead of the force Anduin wanted. The dreadlord knew that Sylvanas was going to Stormheim and took the chance to cause conflict between the factions to help further the Legion's agenda.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Remember Hyjal Battle back in W3? Jaina made comes back to Thrall and teleported them away. Said Jaina help Thrall and Co found Ogrimmar (I mean killing her own father for Horde sake). Horde have debs to pay.

again dying for nothing serves no purpose, no matter which way you try to spin it.

Did you saw "dont be omnipotent"? Like i said A/H when attacking Broken Shore saw opportunity to end it NOW and THERE. But there was price to pay. Vol'jin pissed his pants and was afraid of the losing Horde when it was about saving whole Azeroth.

Vol'jin saw that the Horde was going to lose if they stayed, the Horde couldn't help anymore if they stayed, not enough to turn the battle.

This hesitation was about to spend Valkyries for saving Horde or not. Its oblivious. Its also fun to see how Sylvanas runs away on horse with half dead Vol'jin ahead of everyone.

You know aside from your own imagination, nothing confirms that. Should she have had her horse trot away instead? You don't even have a argument here, you are just blabbering.

Then why people say what Genn is idiot for attacking Horde in Stormheim? I mean if Horde attack Alliance during war with LK at Broken Front it ok. But if Alliance attack Horde in Stormheim during war with Legion its bad and stupid?

People have been calling Garrosh and his super orcs idiots since Northrend.

Fun to read. Because if use your logic (gameplay logic) Horde are damn scrubs who wiped on trash when Alliance fought several Raid Bosses.

Pretty sure the broken shore cinematics made it quite clear that the average fel guard is more than capable of killing a guy, they dont need to be a raidboss, now give never-ending waves of demons and maybe you will start to understand that the Horde had to leave.

Ashran. Broken Front (Horde attacked Alliance from back when Alliance fought Scourge). Wrathgate (Sylvanas can't keep her dogs on leash). Terrorists in Stonetalon Mountains that nuked CIVILIANS. BELFs in Dalaran what helped Garrosh back in MoP. I can continue if you want.

Again, blaming Sylvanas for Wrathegate is just as stupid as blaming Maulfurion for Staghelm or Varian for the defias. The guy in stormtalon commited treason and killed Horde as well he wasnt Horde, even by Garrosh's standards. A belf, A single blood elf in Dalaran helped Garrosh. Continue if you want, your argument still has nothing to stand on and falls apart at the first prod.

Was or wasn't its doesn't matter. You work with someone who you call ally. You must.

And this is why you would be one of the absolute worst military commanders in history with this line of thinking. getting half your army killed for sure to potentially save the other half which is also being overwhelmed is stupid, not beating around the bush.

Before ICC Sylvanas - We will kill Arthas who damned us to undead curse. After ICC Sylvanas - lets rise every body we can/found.

Its interesting that the Forsaken would have to replenish its numbers after Garrosh tried to kill them all + the Alliance trying to take over Lordaeron. I would have never guessed that's what they would have had to do!

[McFrotton]

So as we know in patch 7.1 we're going to Tomb of Sargeras and in patch 7.2 we're going to Argus.

So does that mean Sylvanas vs Genn conflict is over in Legion? Or are they going to jump at each other again?

Imagine that instead of fighting demons on Argus, Alliance and Horde for some reason start conquering this planet for themselves.

Do you think something like this is possible?

7.2 it is the Tomb, 7.3 is argus

[Combatbutler]

Remember Hyjal Battle back in W3? Jaina made comes back to Thrall and teleported them away. Said Jaina help Thrall and Co found Ogrimmar (I mean killing her own father for Horde sake). Horde have debs to pay.

Entirely different situations, since the assault on Hyjal was meticulously planned by the Alliance Horde and night elves, before the legion even began its assault. The broken shore was an immediate response by both sides, with no coordination whatsoever.

And now that you mention it Jaina, failed the most from all the well known lore characters on the broken shore, she has a history of teleporting many troops around, but failed miserably at the broken shore itself.

Did you saw "dont be omnipotent"? Like i said A/H when attacking Broken Shore saw opportunity to end it NOW and THERE. But there was price to pay. Vol'jin pissed his pants and was afraid of the losing Horde when it was about saving whole Azeroth.

Yes they saw an opportunity, which did not exist, the legion played them like fools and both factions got butchered like the idiots they were, for storming in without a plan, that they got out of this with so little casualties is pure luck.

This hesitation was about to spend Valkyries for saving Horde or not. Its oblivious. Its also fun to see how Sylvanas runs away on horse with half dead Vol'jin ahead of everyone.

Pure speculation, Sylvanas is a selfish bitch, but unlike most people she had a horse, so why not use it?

Then why people say what Genn is idiot for attacking Horde in Stormheim? I mean if Horde attack Alliance during war with LK at Broken Front it ok. But if Alliance attack Horde in Stormheim during war with Legion its bad and stupid?

You might not know, but the horde and Alliance are not at war in legion. Tension are very high though.

Fun to read. Because if use your logic (gameplay logic) Horde are damn scrubs who wiped on trash when Alliance fought several Raid Bosses.

You do know the leaders on the horde side were the world bosses that set the zones on fire in the legion pre event.

Ashran. Broken Front (Horde attacked Alliance from back when Alliance fought Scourge). Wrathgate (Sylvanas can't keep her dogs on leash). Terrorists in Stonetalon Mountains that nuked CIVILIANS. BELFs in Dalaran what helped Garrosh back in MoP. I can continue if you want.

Kul'tiras invasion of Durotar, Night elf spies in Quel'thalas, Dwarven incursion into the Barrens and Mulgore, attempted ghenocide of the goblin refugees etc. both sides do shit from time to time, what a surprise.

Was or wasn't its doesn't matter. You work with someone who you call ally. You must.

A horn of retreat was sounded, it was immediately understood and then their own retreat was ordered, that is cooperation. Had the horde withdrawn without sounding their horn then by all means you would have a point.

[Highwhale]

again dying for nothing serves no purpose, no matter which way you try to spin it

It not about dying together - its about help to retreat your allies and not thinking about only yourself.

Again, blaming Sylvanas for Wrathegate is just as stupid as blaming Maulfurion for Staghelm or Varian for the defias.

Its not the same. Difference is what Sylvanas was stupid enough to set Dreadlord in charge.

And this is why you would be one of the absolute worst military commanders in history with this line of thinking. getting half your army killed for sure to potentially save the other half which is also being overwhelmed is stupid, not beating around the bush.

Please dont be so sure and stop playing I KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF. Like you said You know aside from your own imagination, nothing confirms that.

Its interesting that the Forsaken would have to replenish its numbers after Garrosh tried to kill them all + the Alliance trying to take over Lordaeron.

I don't know maybe they should just simple die off? Look at Worgens - curse gives them alot of pluses and advantages but they don't trying to spread it on everyones. Like Forsaken do.

Pure speculation, Sylvanas is a selfish bitch, but unlike most people she had a horse, so why not use it?

Why not use it to charge for Alliance position and make things clear? Hell Horde don't even send diplomats to explain Alliance what happened and why they needed to retreat.

You might not know, but the horde and Alliance are not at war in legion. Tension are very high though.

They are after Broken Shore. Even Vol'jin/Sylvanas (i dont remember exactly who) said Alliance will wanted revenge for what they did at Broken Shore.

Kul'tiras invasion of Durotar

Alliance and Horde wasn't allies at this moment. Only Jaina forces and Thralls. Ah and yea its before WoW events also.

Night elf spies in Quel'thalas

It was before Blood Elves joined Horde. And they didn't attacked first - Blood Elf PC did.

A horn of retreat was sounded, it was immediately understood and then their own retreat was ordered, that is cooperation. Had the horde withdrawn without sounding their horn then by all means you would have a point.

Look at my first quote in this post.

[steelballfc]

@Highwhale
whatever happen in broken shore, IT WAS YOU ALLIANCE SPY WHO FAILED BOTH FACTION with faults information

[Combatbutler]

Why not use it to charge for Alliance position and make things clear?

There was no connection between the two sides, there is a steep cliff otherwise the island is separated by fel chasms, not to mention a horn is more than sufficient in such a extremely fast degrading situation.

Hell Horde don't even send diplomats to explain Alliance what happened and why they needed to retreat.

Quite simple the head of stormwind intelligence service is a dreadlord at the moment, who pushes for war, the rogues sets things right and avert a horde alliance war.

They are after Broken Shore. Even Vol'jin/Sylvanas (i dont remember exactly who) said Alliance will wanted revenge for what they did at Broken Shore.

No they are not, which is the entire point of the rogue class hall, to prevent war between the horde and Alliance.

Alliance and Horde wasn't allies at this moment. Only Jaina forces and Thralls. Ah and yea its before WoW events also.

Jaina had signed a treaty with thrall, which her father and the troops he took from her(Theramore) broke.

It was before Blood Elves joined Horde. And they didn't attacked first - Blood Elf PC did.

They sabotaged their sanctums, which were crucial for the defense of the city and the sustenance for the general population. Not to mention it doesn't change the point that the Alliance can do despicable things all the same if they deem it necessary.

Look at my first quote in this post.

That is not how military retreats worked communication in medieval times was done with horns and if a line was broken a retreat was necessary. Besides they couldn't help each other out, since they were separated by a cliff and a pool of fel.