Il'gynoth as BM

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

Why play hunter at all? You are sabotaging your raid for not playing better ranged class.

[sionus]

This is wrong.

MM cleave can easily wipe the raid on mythic. I do quite well as BM on this fight. I don't run blink strikes. The trick is knowing the timers for the tentacles and pulling your pets over in advance.

Remember, in mythic it's not about the meters, it's about the team objective.

This is really naive. Many encounters, especially those such as Ursoc, are very much about the meters. Some are much more about knowing mechanics than a DPS check.

MM cleave, as well as any other DPS can cause too many stacks if AOE isn't controlled. You make it sound as if MM AOE is impossible to keep in check. As a MM main who has cleared Mythic Il'gynoth, that can't be further from the truth.

[Dracodraco]

Why play hunter at all? You are sabotaging your raid for not playing better ranged class.

Because the only other ranged mail user is elemental shamans. We can't all be shadow priests and mages. Wouldn't be enough loot to go around, and rather a hunter than a boomkin/warlock/elemental (not that warlock is terrible as-is, but it's a cloth spec that's competing with mages and spriests, so eh).

This is really naive. Many encounters, especially those such as Ursoc, are very much about the meters. Some are much more about knowing mechanics than a DPS check.

MM cleave, as well as any other DPS can cause too many stacks if AOE isn't controlled. You make it sound as if MM AOE is impossible to keep in check. As a MM main who has cleared Mythic Il'gynoth, that can't be further from the truth.

It's sort of hilarious though, isn't it? Fire mages can't control their cleave at all apart from... Simply not hitting stuff, because ignite burns everything that goes close to the target they're hitting with their spells - yet they are assumed to be better. They can't even HIT the bloods without aoeing. The only reason they do well is because they are left to do what they do well, or they get to whore. Seems odd you wouldn't do the same for the hunters, who at the very least have surgical singletarget burst with windburst/aimed shot, and minimal cleave with sidewinders to keep up vulnerable. Does it hurt not being able to press marked shot? Sure, but that's not really dps you need anyway. Is marked shot fucking sick when you gotta cleave down tentacles and burst corrupters? Fucking aye it is.

[Deleted]

You find MM boring, yet you somehow find BM exciting...? What the actual fuck

I never said that? But I do find it more fun than MM.

I'm playing Survival actually, really like it.

[RyanEX]

How do you tell a good hunter from a bad hunter?

The good hunters give actual advice and tips.

The bad hunters only talk dps.

[Aggrophobic]

How do you tell a good hunter from a bad hunter?

The good hunters give actual advice and tips.

The bad hunters only talk dps.

Good advice is: Go MM.

[Deleted]

Good advice is: Go MM.

So good advice is giving money for a game on a monthly bases and play something you don't want to play?

Good advice....

Did you even read what OP said?

Thanks, I don't give a shit about MM.

[Azortharion]

Why play hunter at all? You are sabotaging your raid for not playing better ranged class.

Nevermind that Hunters are like the best ranged in the instance LUL.

[Aggrophobic]

So good advice is giving money for a game on a monthly bases and play something you don't want to play?

Good advice....

Did you even read what OP said?

Sadly, yes. Blizzard seems to have given up when it comes to balancing the other two specs.
BM works ok for dungeons but they are simply really far behind MM and most other specs for raiding. You're hurting your raid team playing BM.

[Deleted]

Nevermind that Hunters are like the best ranged in the instance LUL.

Knowing you(it takes like 5 seconds looking at your posts in this thread) the only thing you care about is being highest on dps.

With that in mind your statement is factually wrong.

They are the easiest class to play, by far, but not the best ranged class at all.

[Dracodraco]

Knowing you(it takes like 5 seconds looking at your posts in this thread) the only thing you care about is being highest on dps.

With that in mind your statement is factually wrong.

They are the easiest class to play, by far, but not the best ranged spec at all.

Hunters are the best ranged for progress, because they shit all over mechanics, target switching and brief periods of burst when played correct. Hunters are (probably) the worst ranged for farm, because their sustained singletarget damage is weak to combat their other strengths. Which ranged class(es) do you consider to be better than hunters, and why specifically? I can give you detailed reasonings as to hunters various strengths on the bosses. I'd like to see if you can argue the same for whatever class(es) you pick, or if it's just "LOL MORE BOSS DMG!".

[Deleted]

Hunters are the best ranged for progress, because they shit all over mechanics, target switching and brief periods of burst when played correct. Hunters are (probably) the worst ranged for farm, because their sustained singletarget damage is weak to combat their other strengths. Which ranged class(es) do you consider to be better than hunters, and why specifically? I can give you detailed reasonings as to hunters various strengths on the bosses. I'd like to see if you can argue the same for whatever class(es) you pick, or if it's just "LOL MORE BOSS DMG!".

Obviously you didnt read my post. My post was directed specifically at Azorwhatever who pretty much only care about high rankings on warcraftlogs. With that in mind shadowpriest are by far the best ranged spec.

You listed a specific requirement where hunters are the best if played by someone who would otherwise stand in shit. I listed one before that where they arent.

Before you start talking about how detailed your reasonings are maybe you should read the post you are quoting.

Also male pandas are gay

[Deleted]

Don't worry everyone, Azortharion is just butthurt from not being a top hunter anymore. Get off your high horse already, HFC is long gone. Getting kicked from Danish Terrace for failing basic raid mechanics due to dps whoring says it all.

Lol'd

>.>

[Dracodraco]

Obviously you didnt read my post. My post was directed specifically at Azorwhatever who pretty much only care about high rankings on warcraftlogs. With that in mind shadowpriest are by far the best ranged spec.

You listed a specific requirement where hunters are the best if played by someone who would otherwise stand in shit. I listed one before that where they arent.

Before you start talking about how detailed your reasonings are maybe you should read the post you are quoting.

Also male pandas are gay

1: Azor plays to rank during farm. Azor also plays to kill bosses during progress. I've had him in my guild, I should know. There's a difference between wanting to perform well (which during farm means high parses), and just coasting by.

2: I didn't "list a specific requirement where hunters are the best if played by someone who would otherwise stand in shit". In all honesty I don't even understand what that sentence means. Can you elaborate a bit on it?

3: I did read the post. You claimed hunters are the easiest class to play, but not the best ranged. I disagreed and said I could elaborate to you why they beat whichever class you decide to champion, during progress. During farm, yea, it's a lost cause, because singletarget boss dmg > all.

4: Who's playing a male panda? I'm certainly not.

[ydraw]

I can see why you'd think hunters are the best ranged on bosses that have high priority spread cleave, but do honestly think they're the best ranged on bosses like Nythendra or Ursoc where they're in the bottom third for damage?

Granted a lot of ranged DPS specs are in a similarly poor position on these fights but Fire Mages and Shadow Priests seem to be chugging along pretty well.

[Stupud]

Imagine that BM and MM were very far apart on certain fights in terms of DPS output and that it was well known that you should switch to the preferred spec that matches the needs of the fight. Suppose that the Il'gynoth fight preferred BM, you would stay BM right? Now suppose that Cenarius was just total trash for BM and that you do 500,000 less dps as BM. Would you still stay as BM? You probably will say that you would, but honestly you would get benched for being suxxor. Of course you could switch to the "preferred spec" and play to actually help your other 19 members who are trying to clear the boss... but f-them, MM is boring. Am right?

[Makro]

This is wrong.

MM cleave can easily wipe the raid on mythic. I do quite well as BM on this fight. I don't run blink strikes. The trick is knowing the timers for the tentacles and pulling your pets over in advance.

Remember, in mythic it's not about the meters, it's about the team objective.

You are most definitely not going to kill extra blobs with only MM cleave.
If more than one blob are that low at the same time, it means someone nuked the wrong target.

[jaym]

Probably. You know what would be even better? MM.

if you don't have any thing to say to to help with his post other then derail the post by turning this into a dumb BM vs MM, then shut the heck up, don't post troll. he asked about BM on Ilgynoth and only that. He did not ask anything about MM.

[Dracodraco]

I can see why you'd think hunters are the best ranged on bosses that have high priority spread cleave, but do honestly think they're the best ranged on bosses like Nythendra or Ursoc where they're in the bottom third for damage?

Granted a lot of ranged DPS specs are in a similarly poor position on these fights but Fire Mages and Shadow Priests seem to be chugging along pretty well.

First off; Nythendra was fairly fucking awesome for hunters first week considering trueshot lined up perfectly with the "big" mc wave after the first Swarm phase if you had 1 relic or 1 point in quick shots (which, considering it took 25 points to get, was about right) allowing 1-2 people to break everyone out despite 12 people being MC'd) . The mage "lucked out" and got a dragons breath legendary crown. Sadly burst bracers weren't a thing back then (they weren't dropping till 7.1), so who knows how it'd look with those.

With that said, you can't expect to be topping EVERY fight. That's asinine. You need to bring enough utility on each fight to be worth taking (which hunters certainly DO), or you need to be so overpowered that it's worth taking you for fights you do shit at in order to let you carry other fights (See: Top end guilds in the past taking a single rogue/plate user to various bosses to make sure loot isn't being wasted because melee sucked, but carrying them was better than losing out on gear). For some fights, geared hunters absolutely break encounter mechanics, so I'd say "check" on that as well.

I will as I've said multiple times concede that hunters aren't topping any boss damage. But you have to get into your heads that we don't NEED to be top to be good. We can be good despite being on the bottom, because the fights you care so much about are tuned around having no legendaries, which makes them a fucking joke to get through, and even while being *bottom* dps, we still push out enough damage to meet the minimum requirement. Why would you care about fights that you could use pretty much ANY setup for and still kill, when we're pretty much carrying on fights like Cenarius/Ilgy?

[Agallion]

Congratulations! I too cleared Naxx 40 when it came out, 10 years ago... I'm not sure what that has to do with current raids.

If you don't understand how 30-60 million extra damage over a 5-10 minute encounter matters, then no amount of conversation is going to help you see it.

P.S. - Your "20-25man raid" statement demonstrates how out of experience you are with raiding.

Irrelevant, how long is it going to take the raid to make up that damage? The answer is "not long"

People do mythics all the time with varying numbers of people in raid. Dont give me that.

The only reason I mentioned old raid experience is because you decided that my mindset of "why does it matter" implied I have no experience with high end raids. Weve established thats not true.

What your stance is implying, is that should one of your dps in the raid be replaced with a healer that does no damage, then you would be unsuccessful. Do you see how silly that is? As if one suboptimal position will wipe the raid. Please.