Demon Hunters are fine ~ Blizzard

[Anbokr]

Demon Hunters are fine.
Immense AoE burst, decent sustained.
Close to good ST, sustained and consistent.

Every spec in the game is "fine" under this definition since the last set of hotfixes and 7.1. That doesn't mean nothing can be improved, especially with regards to QoL or talent choices.

What we have to hope for is that "fine" to Blizzard doesn't equate to let's just ignore this spec/class especially with regards to talents. When 7.1.5 goes up; I'm hoping to see every spec get some talent redesign and iteration.

[Bad Management]

Every spec in the game is "fine" under this definition since the last set of hotfixes and 7.1. That doesn't mean nothing can be improved, especially with regards to QoL or talent choices.

What we have to hope for is that "fine" to Blizzard doesn't equate to let's just ignore this spec/class especially with regards to talents. When 7.1.5 goes up; I'm hoping to see every spec get some talent redesign and iteration.

I disagree.
Blizzard tend to fuck things up more in their "fixes" than actually fixing.

If it ain't broke, why fix it.

[Anbokr]

I disagree.
Blizzard tend to fuck things up more in their "fixes" than actually fixing.

If it ain't broke, why fix it.

The talent balance is pretty broke. I'd love to take demonic or any of the myriad of utility talents spattered throughout the tiers, but you can't really do so w/o willingly amputating a foot.

But I guess we disagree on that front.

[Violent]

Blizzcon quote,

"Demon Hunters are doing well in Legion. Havoc has their niche and is strong in dungeon groups. For Vengeance, skilled ones do well in dungeons, but Blizzard is looking at inexperienced tanks being hard to heal, as well as the survivability difference when Dämonenstachel is up and not."

Don't expect any buffs because we are strong in dungeons. lol

You are.. Just like in Wrath with DKs.. The last fuckin thing any DHs need is some type of "buff"... Have you played Priest lately? They are horrendous.

[therayeffect]

Demon Hunters are fine.
Immense AoE burst, decent sustained.
Close to good ST, sustained and consistent.

These are simple facts, supported by logs, if you've even bothered looking at them.

If you're struggling, I suspect the problem is individual, and if DH is too hard, then this game is not for you.

They're fine if you have the gear. Without the ring, without the haste to go with Demon blades, they're pretty bad tbh. WITH great gear, they're pretty good but Demon Blades aren't supposed to be our best ST. Demon Hunters are garbage ST if they don't have specific gear and okay with it where as others with the same luck destroy fights. Logs are normally really good but there's just SO much RNG that it's hard to see things on an equal level.

[Anbokr]

You are.. Just like in Wrath with DKs.. The last fuckin thing any DHs need is some type of "buff"... Have you played Priest lately? They are horrendous.

Priests aren't horrendous at all. Nor are demon hunters.

There isn't a single "horrendous" spec in the game post-7.1 right now. Even brewmaster is an OK tank right now. The major problem with plaguing every spec is talent balance limiting playstyle and variability. There are far too many awful talents, and a few tiers that just don't make sense (i.e. 2 utility talents on a tier with 1 straight throughput talent - i.e. what is master of the galive).

While the game generally always has superior talents, that doesn't mean the devs should stop trying to numerically tweak what we have and redesign what obviously isn't working. It's always a process with tons of iteration and it can always be made better.

[Dire]

Can we all please stop assuming if its broken or not. The fact remains that those that spent real time building their toon properly and learning to play the class are doing well, and everyone else is posting on these forums complaining about it not doing well with their ilvl 820. Lets just accept it.

[Violent]

They're fine if you have the gear. Without the ring, without the haste to go with Demon blades, they're pretty bad tbh. WITH great gear, they're pretty good but Demon Blades aren't supposed to be our best ST. Demon Hunters are garbage ST if they don't have specific gear and okay with it where as others with the same luck destroy fights. Logs are normally really good but there's just SO much RNG that it's hard to see things on an equal level.

The exact effect of RNG is PURELY equal.. That is like a "Law of RNG" It makes everything equal.

Luck of the draw.

- - - Updated - - -

Priests aren't horrendous at all. Nor are demon hunters.

There isn't a single "horrendous" spec in the game post-7.1 right now. Even brewmaster is an OK tank right now.

I take it you don't or haven't had any pvp experience with playing priests (besides maybe token shadow).

Healing Priests are NO where near "fine". I've played Priest since TBC.

[sajin001]

Blizzcon quote,

"Demon Hunters are doing well in Legion. Havoc has their niche and is strong in dungeon groups. For Vengeance, skilled ones do well in dungeons, but Blizzard is looking at inexperienced tanks being hard to heal, as well as the survivability difference when Dämonenstachel is up and not."

Don't expect any buffs because we are strong in dungeons. lol

There proof of this quote anywhere because I'm not buying that

[Anbokr]

I take it you don't or haven't had any pvp experience with playing priests (besides maybe token shadow).

Healing Priests are NO where near "fine". I've played Priest since TBC.

OK, so we're talking PvP, then? http://www.arenamate.net/region=&realm=&rating=2200&ladder=3v3&faction=.

So priests are horrendous, but demon hunters are fine right . I thought we were talking about PvE in which case I'd absolutely say DH is solid with respect to raw numerical balance and what we CAN do (not fine with respect to talent variability). As far as PvP is concerned? Havoc is the worst pvp spec (among damage specs) in the game right now IMO, and the numbers support it. Shadow and Disc are both very much viable (just because Disc isn't the de facto best healer in PvP doesn't mean it's bad), but Holy could definitely use some PvP love.

Just brings very little to the table when it comes to competitive PVP -- tis the trouble with designing damage bots with little else. If you don't overtune their damage excessively, they are weak (see Frost pre-7.1). If you tune their damage excessively, they are OP (see arms/dh at launch or 7.1 frost dk).

[Bad Management]

They're fine if you have the gear. Without the ring, without the haste to go with Demon blades, they're pretty bad tbh. WITH great gear, they're pretty good but Demon Blades aren't supposed to be our best ST. Demon Hunters are garbage ST if they don't have specific gear and okay with it where as others with the same luck destroy fights. Logs are normally really good but there's just SO much RNG that it's hard to see things on an equal level.

You don't need ring or haste (!?) to do dps.
Demon Blades and Prepared aren't that far apart, Demon Blades just scales better.
And ofc you need gear to do dps, so does every other class, DH's need far less than most others though.

[Perovano]

Blizzard said a couple weeks ago that a lot of Dh talents were going to be revised. Where did you guys take that quote from?

[Kithelle]

Blizzcon quote,

"Demon Hunters are doing well in Legion. Havoc has their niche and is strong in dungeon groups. For Vengeance, skilled ones do well in dungeons, but Blizzard is looking at inexperienced tanks being hard to heal, as well as the survivability difference when Dämonenstachel is up and not."

Don't expect any buffs because we are strong in dungeons. lol

Which is funny and a complete crock considering how much they love pushing raids on us...

[Zasriel]

Don't expect any buffs because we are strong in dungeons. lol

Because we really don't need any. I'm the lowest geared raider in my raid group, and I am consistently top 5 damage. In nearly everything m+ dungeon, I am #1 DPS or #2 if it's strictly ST damage.

[Violent]

OK, so we're talking PvP, then? http://www.arenamate.net/region=&realm=&rating=2200&ladder=3v3&faction=. So priests are horrendous, but demon hunters are fine right .

Ehhh. I don't believe in that shit, or take it very far. My view is completely dependent on my experience with playing the same damn Priest, and the 3 same damn specs since TBC, and actually SEEING, and FEELING the difference in game play.

Did you know Holy doesn't even have a bubble anymore? Or Fear? Or ANYTHING else defensive at all?

I don't equate my playing with someone who may have a guild FULL of help , and a day full of time, to my average playing.

I would image a professional race car drive could drive just about anything better than the average driver on the road. Does that mean anything the professional drives is completely 100%, capable of driving to the vehicles' limitations?

No.

I certainly may not be R-1, but that doesn't mean my view or my stance is "wrong". Just because someone whom IS r-1 can do better than me.

(Even on the first page of 3k and lower, there's not 1 priest of ANY spec up there. Holy doesn't even show up as top any-number.)
I did JUST fine last expack in PvP as Holy.. That is literally impossible to do now, just 1 expack later.

But there's nothing wrong, right?

[Perovano]

"Havoc Demon Hunter
Moving to the Demon Hunter forums.

I somehow missed part one of this thread, sorry for letting it cap out. I'll review this in the morning and get some questions out to the development team so we can share some insight on upcoming DH changes. Hopefully I will be able to help explain our thinking/philosophy here.

Thanks for all the patience! (Official Forums)"

And there was also another quote saying that the changes wont be in 7.1, but I cant find it.

[Anbokr]

Ehhh. I don't believe in that shit, or take it very far. My view is completely dependent on my experience with playing the same damn Priest, and the 3 same damn specs since TBC, and actually SEEING, and FEELING the difference in game play.

Did you know Holy doesn't even have a bubble anymore? Or Fear? Or ANYTHING else defensive at all?

I don't equate my playing with someone who may have a guild FULL of help , and a day full of time, to my average playing.

I would image a professional race car drive could drive just about anything better than the average driver on the road. Does that mean anything the professional drives is completely 100%, capable of driving to the vehicles' limitations?

No.

I certainly may not be R-1, but that doesn't mean my view or my stance is "wrong".

I'm not disagreeing with you on the Holy front -- Holy is not a good pvp healing spec (Disc is though).

I just find it a tad funny that you came over to the DH forums to exclaim that they are fine in PvP apparently, when they aren't, just like Holy. The two aren't mutually exclusive, you don't have to run around claiming every other spec is fine because yours isn't. We can both provide valuable feedback on our respective classes/specs.

As far as PvE goes though? Both Holy and DH are more than "fine" if we're only talking numbers, sure.

[Wolfheart9]

Havoc is fine only if you chose a certain build of talents, most of the tiers have only one viable option.

Feral druid says hi.

[Anbokr]

Feral druid says hi.

Every spec in the game says hi.

This is a problem with legion as a whole that they've admitted -- because they redesigned so many specs and talent setups, the balance isn't there because there hasn't been much iteration at all. Everything is fairly new. We can all hope that every spec and class gets solid attention and iteration on their respective talent trees, and it's not limited to a handful.

[Wolfheart9]

Every spec in the game says hi.

This is a problem with legion as a whole that they've admitted -- because they redesigned so many specs and talent setups, the balance isn't there because there hasn't been much iteration at all. Everything is fairly new. We can all hope that every spec and class gets solid attention and iteration on their respective talent trees, and it's not limited to a handful.

On the plus side though, they did say they're thinking of talents that people see as 'absolute must take', they may just bake into the spec and make a new talent