Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Bellabel]

You misunderstand. He is not against people posting numbers to support their claims. He's against people making up false numbers and claiming them as factual. For example, as he mentioned, the guy from several pages ago that claimed Final Fantasy XIV had less subscribers than than Nostalrius had.

Ah thanks for the clarifiction.

[Deleted]

When Blizzard implement Legacy servers, I hope they speak to the developers of Jagex about their own experiences, could probably learn something useful. Now Oldschool is doing better than their main game. I wonder if it would be the same for WoW.

[Relapses]

And they say only pro legacy people are toxic.

Yeah, because using the F-word on a message board with adults makes me "toxic."

Excuse my French but get the fuck over yourself.

[Ielenia]

You can't subscribe to Nostalrius though? Doesn't everyone know that?

Don't be daft, please.

[Deleted]

Don't be daft, please.

You genuinely can't subscribe to Nostalrius, it was a non profit organisation. This has been known from the beginning.

[Gilthresa]

When Blizzard implement Legacy servers, I hope they speak to the developers of Jagex about their own experiences, could probably learn something useful. Now Oldschool is doing better than their main game. I wonder if it would be the same for WoW.

This just isn't true, they are both practically even in terms of player base and player concurrency and without RS3 and it's treasure hunter you wouldn't even have your old school runescape servers.

[Deleted]

This just isn't true, they are both practically even in terms of player base and player concurrency and without RS3 and it's treasure hunter you wouldn't even have your old school runescape servers.

Maybe so, but even still. Considering they are that close is incredible considering people like others in this thread said that the game would be dead in a year. Kind of throws the whole Nostalgia theory out the window too. "Don't release an OSRS, it will die, people will leave after a month and their nostalgia wears off" OK sure. Meanwhile it's got a bigger twitch/youtube community than it's main counterpart and has beaten it in player count, if only just.

[Vichan]

A lawsuit is a huge cost for Blizzard. Firstly they will expect a huge protest, and secondly a huge bill. It makes no economic sense. And Blizzard think only about numbers last 6 years.

And if hosting is not going to cooperate, then they will have to look for a completely new reason for a lawsuit. It is also a huge cost. Therefore, they are usually restricted to threats. They won't sue if it does not bring a huge benefit to them.

blizzard has the money for it,some dudes that could barely pay the host for a private server don't though. and it makes perfect sense why blizzard would, blizzard has to protect their IP

[Gilthresa]

Maybe so, but even still. Considering they are that close is incredible considering people like others in this thread said that the game would be dead in a year. Kind of throws the whole Nostalgia theory out the window too. "Don't release an OSRS, it will die, people will leave after a month and their nostalgia wears off" OK sure. Meanwhile it's got a bigger twitch/youtube community than it's main counterpart and has beaten it in player count, if only just.

Nah I get what your saying and your right, but the only reason the game isn't dead is because it has had consistent updates ever since release, and a lot of the people playing osrs hate treasure hunter so they stay away from rs3 because of that. The difference with legacy servers being run by blizzard if they use a skeleton team like they do for osrs is that once naxx is released and finished it will just be the same content forever.. nothing new unless they completely destroy the lore like osrs did.

[Fenixhart]

So they just did a hop skip and a jump to a new platform?

Guess we'll be seeing this same scenario play out again in a few years.

Then again With the Content Train Legion is putting out it might not get as big as Nost got in Warlords. That's really the only reason it got big in the first place.

[Bellabel]

So they just did a hop skip and a jump to a new platform?

Guess we'll be seeing this same scenario play out again in a few years.

Then again With the Content Train Legion is putting out it might not get as big as Nost got in Warlords. That's really the only reason it got big in the first place.

That is a good observation but how good can that content be if Blizzard is doing the once a year expac game?
Edit;
If they do stick to the once a year expac game, how hollow will content be especially in the volume they claim will come?

[Fenixhart]

That is a good observation but how good can that content be if Blizzard is doing the once a year expac game?

They aren't.

That mindset ended with Warlords's abysmal failiure. They're focused on delivering regular content now but the actual time span of expansions isn't being aimed at.

[Bellabel]

They aren't.

That mindset ended with Warlords's abysmal failiure. They're focused on delivering regular content now but the actual time span of expansions isn't being aimed at.

Ah that is good to hear.

[Vineri]

Invent facts. Please ELABORATE!. It's really easy to bring such words into play, but you may already know it's hard to put them into context.

Figures too! Please include examples to support your thesis.

I cut your quote because I think Mark Twain is above your argument. I don't think he would approve. Twain is a notable figure in American Literature; above our disputes. Leave him out.

That's cute. I guess then he's kind of like Peter the Great, your shitty roleplaying alt?

Once you disrespect people acknowledged by educational groups, it does not shine upon yourself, whatever argument you had. It makes you look bad.

[Triks]

Once you disrespect people acknowledged by educational groups, it does not shine upon yourself, whatever argument you had. It makes you look bad.

The man has a point. I have been reading this thread for the past two days (mostly because I have nothing better to do) and some of the shit I have read makes me want to jump off a bridge.

[PeterTheGreat]

blizzard has the money for it,some dudes that could barely pay the host for a private server don't though. and it makes perfect sense why blizzard would, blizzard has to protect their IP

It will never happen under these circumstances. You don't understand how big business operates.

[Nehezbegar]

Well on the other hand, free market works. There is a demand and there are servers that provide this service to supply the demand.

Too bad its not Blizz that does provide it :'(

[Relapses]

Interesting. You even credit them with forming an argument. Good for you to rise to that level.

It's a loose definition of the word but credit where credit is due, there are a few interesting angles to argue for Legacy. But even the best arguments have played themselves out so we're left with constant repeats of the same circular, frequently disproven nonsense.

[Dormie]

It's a loose definition of the word but credit where credit is due, there are a few interesting angles to argue for Legacy. But even the best arguments have played themselves out so we're left with constant repeats of the same circular, frequently disproven nonsense.

Almost none of the arguments are "disproven", you just don't agree with them.

[Relapses]

Almost none of the arguments are "disproven", you just don't agree with them.

What I don't agree with is people making shit up to support their argument. But honestly that doesn't happen often and the most common tropes in this thread are incredibly weak. Just a few off the dome (long post ahead):

• The "untapped audience" fallacy - Completely speculative in nature, there's no rock solid proof the audience for Legacy would be interested in the game long term. While very few people doubt that Legacy would bring some of the currently unsubbed demographic back, there's no conclusive evidence to support how many of them would pay for the service nor whether the servers would maintain a sustainable audience when faced with the possibility of an indefinite content drought.
  
  
• Nost did it for free, why can't Blizzard? - One of the single weakest arguments in favor of Legacy as it completely ignores the fact that Nost is an emulation and Blizzard would use their source if they were to ever release the servers. It also often greatly downplays the innumerable programming challenges which adapting Legacy to the current B.net framework would entail while simultaneously ignoring the fact that there would need to be a customer support team as well as part time developers on hand for bug fixes and maintenance.
  
  
• Retail WoW loses subs while Vanilla WoW gained them - An argument which might seem strong on the surface yet holds little to no water when you apply critical thinking to the subject. The conditions for WoW's breakout popularity were exclusive to the climate of gaming when it was released. Its earliest iterations heavily borrowed many tried-and-true concepts from the previous king of MMO's, EverQuest. From 2004 until 2010, the MMO market was incredibly popular and WoW enjoyed its most rampant success in this timeframe. However, after WotLK, the gaming environment began to shift away from MMO popularity and more towards eSports such as MOBAs (DotA, LoL, HoN) and FPS games (CS:GO, Halo, OverWatch). Because of this shift, the conditions for a return to Vanilla WoW's popularity will likely never happen again and certainly relaunching it will not bring upon the Renaissance many pro-Legacy players seem convinced it will. Additionally, WoW's current model supports a sudden rise then fall of subscribers at the start of every expansion. I believe Blizzard realizes the conditions which made WoW an unstoppable juggernaut have long since subsided but they're a company adaptive enough to keep it profitable without relying on consistently high subscriber numbers.
  
  
• Blizzard has no right to protect their IP - This is one of the most infuriating arguments brought forth by the pro-Legacy group. There are so many countless arguments to be made in favor of a company protecting its IP that it's almost mind-boggling that there are people out there who would prefer to live in a world where they didn't. It's an old, boring and shitty game that isn't around anymore but this doesn't give you a free pass for piracy just because you want to have the implicit right to "enjoy Legacy" without Blizzard's legal team holding a proverbial axe to your favorite private server's throat. Blizzard doesn't take down private realms because they hate people having fun, they take them down because a perceived weakness against outright IP theft is a slippery slope which leads to the overall quality of WoW's brand being cheapened.

There are some other tropes which crop up from time to time but most of them are inconsequential anecdotal claims like, "I know 5 people who quit retail to play Nost" or "Vanilla WoW was better because {insert stupid fucking opinion}." I don't mind arguing the merits of this discussion but I haven't seen anything new posted in over 1,000 pages. The reasonable portion of my brain tells me I should just ignore this thread but I enjoy posting here because I find entertainment in the debate. I really wish there were more credible counter-arguments and I can already hear the pro-Legacy folks typing furiously in response to each of the above points, but I know in the end nothing new will be gleamed and the nature of the discussion will go back to its usual "ambassadors of Legacy" circlejerk after a page or two.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯