Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

The bottom line is Vanilla WoW is cool and you know it

[Deleted]

The bottom line is Vanilla WoW is cool and you know it

So after @otaXephon typed a well written and better response then most of you deserve you come back with this amazing one liner?
Who would have thought that would happen... I'm surprised.

[Relapses]

So after @otaXephon typed a well written and better response then most of you deserve you come back with this amazing one liner?
Who would have thought that would happen... I'm surprised.

It's why I avoid wall-of-texting in this thread. Memes are more easily digested than reasonable discussion.

[Deleted]

Trouble is, all these points were brought up when people demanded an old school runescape. There were the same people doomsaying, saying things anti legacy people have been spouting none stop in this thread. Points brought up by people:

Theres no market for it - Incorrect
People will leave after a month never to return - Incorrect
People will be unwilling to pay for something they got for free - Incorrect
It won't be profitable - Incorrect

All of those points were proven wrong by OSRS.

[Deleted]

What hypocrisy?

The bit where you lecture people how not to express opinion, except you got caught doing the same thing you were complaining against.
Eat your crow.

[Deleted]

So after @otaXephon typed a well written and better response then most of you deserve you come back with this amazing one liner?
Who would have thought that would happen... I'm surprised.

So you didn't get the joke?... I'm suprised

Come on people. You keep telling the nost fans that they can't make an argument for the legacy realms and my question is - what for? to convince people who don't want them? when I give my opinions and thoughts on the topic you will change your mind? and even if so - will your stance on the disscusion change Blizzard's and make them introduce the relams?

No.

So there is no point in stating the obvious (although I must say that I already said why I want them, and I'm not going to repeat myslef). And the obvious is that there is a demand for them - weather you accept it or not. If there wasnt then why are we still talking about it? Actions speaks for themself. Blizz wont do it, someone else will fill the demand and the whole disccusion will end.

There is absolutely no point in convincing you people here other than saying that I just want it. Period.

[Nehezbegar]

What I don't agree with is people making shit up to support their argument. But honestly that doesn't happen often and the most common tropes in this thread are incredibly weak. Just a few off the dome (long post ahead):

• The "untapped audience" fallacy - Completely speculative in nature, there's no rock solid proof the audience for Legacy would be interested in the game long term. While very few people doubt that Legacy would bring some of the currently unsubbed demographic back, there's no conclusive evidence to support how many of them would pay for the service nor whether the servers would maintain a sustainable audience when faced with the possibility of an indefinite content drought.
  
  
• Nost did it for free, why can't Blizzard? - One of the single weakest arguments in favor of Legacy as it completely ignores the fact that Nost is an emulation and Blizzard would use their source if they were to ever release the servers. It also often greatly downplays the innumerable programming challenges which adapting Legacy to the current B.net framework would entail while simultaneously ignoring the fact that there would need to be a customer support team as well as part time developers on hand for bug fixes and maintenance.
  
  
• Retail WoW loses subs while Vanilla WoW gained them - An argument which might seem strong on the surface yet holds little to no water when you apply critical thinking to the subject. The conditions for WoW's breakout popularity were exclusive to the climate of gaming when it was released. Its earliest iterations heavily borrowed many tried-and-true concepts from the previous king of MMO's, EverQuest. From 2004 until 2010, the MMO market was incredibly popular and WoW enjoyed its most rampant success in this timeframe. However, after WotLK, the gaming environment began to shift away from MMO popularity and more towards eSports such as MOBAs (DotA, LoL, HoN) and FPS games (CS:GO, Halo, OverWatch). Because of this shift, the conditions for a return to Vanilla WoW's popularity will likely never happen again and certainly relaunching it will not bring upon the Renaissance many pro-Legacy players seem convinced it will. Additionally, WoW's current model supports a sudden rise then fall of subscribers at the start of every expansion. I believe Blizzard realizes the conditions which made WoW an unstoppable juggernaut have long since subsided but they're a company adaptive enough to keep it profitable without relying on consistently high subscriber numbers.
  
  
• Blizzard has no right to protect their IP - This is one of the most infuriating arguments brought forth by the pro-Legacy group. There are so many countless arguments to be made in favor of a company protecting its IP that it's almost mind-boggling that there are people out there who would prefer to live in a world where they didn't. It's an old, boring and shitty game that isn't around anymore but this doesn't give you a free pass for piracy just because you want to have the implicit right to "enjoy Legacy" without Blizzard's legal team holding a proverbial axe to your favorite private server's throat. Blizzard doesn't take down private realms because they hate people having fun, they take them down because a perceived weakness against outright IP theft is a slippery slope which leads to the overall quality of WoW's brand being cheapened.

There are some other tropes which crop up from time to time but most of them are inconsequential anecdotal claims like, "I know 5 people who quit retail to play Nost" or "Vanilla WoW was better because {insert stupid fucking opinion}." I don't mind arguing the merits of this discussion but I haven't seen anything new posted in over 1,000 pages. The reasonable portion of my brain tells me I should just ignore this thread but I enjoy posting here because I find entertainment in the debate. I really wish there were more credible counter-arguments and I can already hear the pro-Legacy folks typing furiously in response to each of the above points, but I know in the end nothing new will be gleamed and the nature of the discussion will go back to its usual "ambassadors of Legacy" circlejerk after a page or two.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Both sides tell shiets.

In the end, in Blizzard HQ, all will come to numbers if its profitable to black suits or not. End of story imo

[Fenixhart]

The bottom line is Vanilla WoW is cool and you know it

As someone who started in TBC, I just can't fathom the appeal of an objectively inferior experience but for some reason it gets people interested.

[arcaneshot]

Theres no market for it - Incorrect
People will leave after a month never to return - Incorrect
People will be unwilling to pay for something they got for free - Incorrect
It won't be profitable - Incorrect

All of those points were proven wrong by OSRS.

I think of those 'points' you make and then think I still won't play Runescape.

[Relapses]

Trouble is, all these points were brought up when people demanded an old school runescape. There were the same people doomsaying, saying things anti legacy people have been spouting none stop in this thread. Points brought up by people:

Theres no market for it - Incorrect
People will leave after a month never to return - Incorrect
People will be unwilling to pay for something they got for free - Incorrect
It won't be profitable - Incorrect

All of those points were proven wrong by OSRS.

The entire impetus of this discussion implies that Runescape and WoW are the same thing. Runescape has always been a browser-based FREE-TO-PLAY game while WoW has always had a subscription model. The idea might be similar but the driving forces behind the two games are entirely different. Further than that, none of the claims you are saying are incorrect can be definitively proven correct either. It's just varying degrees of "maybe" and whichever side you fall on depends heavily on your personal slant in this debate.

Personally, I just see Legacy further fragmenting an already incredibly fragmented playerbase and causing the game to become predatory upon itself, potentially destroying the retail experience so a few of the vocal minority around here can give each other virtual rimjobs in Molten Core for the rest of their lives.

[Roadblock]

This thread is good for spotting the Blizzard shills on this board, pretty much nothing else.

• The single-mindedness of some people is astounding.
• The fact that they take turns every few days like a tag team.
• The style of posting... no way someone is doing that on their free time... unless they have a mental condition.

I mean

give each other virtual rimjobs

??
Who says that.

It's beyond obvious they're only here to disrupt, bait and derail any chance of a conversation.

[Shammyrock]

The funny thing is if the vocal minority could be just shut up in the first place, Blizz probably wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

[Deleted]

As a legacy supporter I must say that this whole rant was started by... Blizzard. They should've said that they WON'T do it. But they CHOOSE not to. They've been saying that they have no plans "as for now" for like 10 years. Then they said that they are looking into the possibility.

It is not our fault that we have hope. They planted it.

[Deleted]

[*]Nost did it for free, why can't Blizzard? - One of the single weakest arguments in favor of Legacy as it completely ignores the fact that Nost is an emulation and Blizzard would use their source if they were to ever release the servers. It also often greatly downplays the innumerable programming challenges which adapting Legacy to the current B.net framework would entail while simultaneously ignoring the fact that there would need to be a customer support team as well as part time developers on hand for bug fixes and maintenance.

Gonna just reply to this one, the rest of your points seem irrelevant to me/I can't answer them. Although that title sure is a clickbait, I don't think most people think Blizzard should do it for free, I've seen a lot of pro-legacy people proclaim how they'd pay for it. This is more about how it shouldn't cost an unreasonable amount of money.

So the points here are; Battle.net, customer support, bug fixes and maintenance.

I tried to search for a source on this for a while but I couldn't find it, so I might be wrong here, I read somewhere (here I'd imagine.) that the Nost crew pretty much would have been able to do the B.net integration for Blizzard, or at the very least help them do it. Now, I get that there are probably a bunch of legal problems with Blizzard just taking help like that for free, so even if they'd work with the Nost crew it would still, no doubt, cost money for Blizzard. The point here is that I can't imagine the costs being skyhigh. This whole argument, of course, relies on the fact that I just remember reading this somewhere and can't find a source for you. (And that I think that the post I read it from didn't have a source either.) So don't really blame you for skipping this one.

Bug Fixes are very similar with the last point, in that the Nost crew is/was willing and able to help. There are even less questions here, as Nostalrious was reasonably bug free as it was. Of course it still had some bugs, and I realize Blizzard standards are certainly high, so they'd probably want to hone it a bunch more. So yea, this one costs money as well, and does add to maintenance as new bugs are found and need fixing.

Customer support and maintenance, these are the running costs. I'm certain Blizzard already knows reasonably well how much these would be, given their experience on the subject, so when they are calculating whether legacy is worth it or not, I'm sure they aren't spending a lot of time calculating these figures. Personally I've no idea. All I know is that there are plenty of buy to play games that seem to able to pay through these with no problems, therefore I can't imagine them being that expensive.

So since I pretty much ended up agreeing and expanding your argument, apart from that awful title that nobody credible ever claims anyway, I'll go to my point.

Blizzard probably shouldn't ask for sub fee from legacy servers. There is no new content to produce where they could justify it anyway, and plenty of games with no subscription model can handle the server and customer support costs.
Having no subscription and a higher base cost eliminates another issue that is often addressed. The, people are going to quit in a few months anyway, one.

Or they could tie it with the regular WoW subscription instead. Although knowing Blizzard they'd definitely just do both.

As someone who started in TBC, I just can't fathom the appeal of an objectively inferior experience but for some reason it gets people interested.

*subjectively.

[Deleted]

Why shouldn't they ask for a subscription fee?
I would pay it, even if it isn't new content, they still need to keep the servers up and maintain them, provide support.
For me I'd gladly pay a monthly fee, altough I would be willing to pay less than a Legion subscription fee.
If Legion is 12,55euros per month, I'd pay around 5euro's per month to play Legacy.
They could even make a discount if you play both.
I always gladly pay for good service provided.

[Fenixhart]

*subjectively.

There is no universe in where a game design that is 9 years older than current is better.

Sorry you think otherwise.

[Deleted]

Why shouldn't they ask for a subscription fee?
I would pay it, even if it isn't new content, they still need to keep the servers up and maintain them, provide support.
For me I'd gladly pay a monthly fee, altough I would be willing to pay less than a Legion subscription fee.
If Legion is 12,55euros per month, I'd pay around 5euro's per month to play Legacy.
They could even make a discount if you play both.
I always gladly pay for good service provided.

Thats great, I would not pay a single euro a month for a game that has no updates, no new content or any bug fixes.
I don't think many people would.

[Deleted]

So apparently Nost is coming back
I didn't play on that server, but I might give it a try now. I imagine a lot of people will be playing there.

[Deleted]

So apparently Nost is coming back
I didn't play on that server, but I might give it a try now. I imagine a lot of people will be playing there.

We can only hope so it did get a lot of promotion by known streamers and youtubers so id say there would be a few peeps jumping on it for a while.

[Deleted]

We can only hope so it did get a lot of promotion by known streamers and youtubers so id say there would be a few peeps jumping on it for a while.

It might get some steam after a while. Also if they keep all old characters i think many old players will come back We can hope