a response to those who hate casual players

[Deleted]

If that's the best reply you can come up with then our conversation is at an end. GLHF.

Good. You constantly arguing that I'm missing the point while basically proving my point is getting on my balls anyways. Bye.

[Vynny]

Or you can go through any number of millions of other channels to get the plot synopsis and such.

Doing so does not take anything away from the novels, nor does it ruin them for people who read them in their entirety.

Seriously, how hard would everyone laugh at someone if they tried to start up a movement to get rid of any Cliffs' Notes books, plot synopsis, book reviews, movies and so on because, "People who use those take something away from those of us who actually read the book!"

(You guys are really bad at analogies)

You're exactly right, no one has to read the Cliffs' notes, plot synopsis, or book reviews, but the content in WoW doesn't exist in a bubble. With the way the difficulty system works in WoW, mythic raiders have to go through the raid on at least 2 different difficulties, so it's a lot like them being made to read the Cliffs' notes before actually being allowed to read the book which does diminish experience of actually reading the book. It's not as if the content geared towards casuals and the content geared to hardcore players are separated to the point where it's out of sight and out of mind for the hardcore players. They have to slog up through the more casual content in order to get to the hardcore stuff thus the more repetition and re-use of content the less engaging the experience is for those who strive for the higher end of things. I mean, the fact that you pointed out the very reason that hardcore players complain about the difficulty system without even realizing it shows how little you know about what hardcore players do in the game because if there was a requirement to read the Cliffs' notes and spoil it for yourself before being allowed to read that book then people would certainly complain and ask for them to be removed due to it ruining the experience for those who are actually going to go the full distance and read the book.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

I don't "hate" casual players, I'm one myself. I just find it highly annoying when bad players give up because they are getting declined in Mythics then go whine on the forums to make Mythics queueable in LFD. It totally defeats the purpose of Mythic dungeons but they don't care or know.

Shit like Karazhan getting an LFD version while the Mythic version stays the same,and also getting a Mythic+ version, is totally fine. I was also never really cool with Mythic only dungeons. It meant more wipes on average in those dungeons because no one previously did them on Heroic.

[Usernameforforums]

This is a game bro, I'm not working for anything. Don't be so edgy, you might cut yourself.

How about this:

Want something? Put the time and effort in order to acquire it.

[ShiyoKozuki]

I honestly feel like retail is becoming one of those donation heavy private servers...

Example:
"Oh god I HATE those donators(donators would be called casual here) who buy that gear, It's so fucking stupid they get to run around with <insert weapon here>. Fuckers"
"Hey, man, don't say that! Those donators(Again, donators would be called casuals here) keep the server running! It sucks, but what can ya' do"

This is such a great comparison, wow.
So true.

[Amalisa]

It probably has something to do with maturity, but still, the pure hatred I've seen for other players in the game... It leaves me speechless

As a female gamer, I noticed that other female WoW players tend to really really HATE each other. I've only run into one or two who would verbally attack me, or flame me on realm forums, but I've seen it A LOT with others towards each other. I did have one girl who was CONVINCED I was trying to steal her boyfriend (with whom she lived, in a totally different country) just because I wanted to do arena with him, and another girl who flamed me left and right on the forums because a guy she was in love with did not return the feelings, and he was friends with me.

If tmmrw lets say your gf called and wanted to spend the entire day with you would you skip wow fkr that? If your friends called tk get hammered would you skip wow forbthat? Would you join a softball league knowing that it would cut into yout play time? If the above answer tk any of these is yes you are a casual player. Time allotted does not make one casual or not. Commitment does.

Spelling and typographical errors aside, you can hang out with your friend/SO/family and still be committed to a game. You just need to work on Time Management. To say that someone is not committed to a game because they go out with people is silly.

[Deletedededed]

I think its better to keep the major enemy tied to a raid, whom may be involved in a current war. Being able to take on that being, creature, entity, individual and stop it from causing more harm/remove it from existence, with a group of adventurers, is better for the actual lore and story. At the pit of where he/she/it stands atop or below the world, makes everything more prestige on two levels — with the group someone is with and on a personal level — when the the final boss is defeated.

I understand where the OP is coming from with having everything split in their state of mind and how I feel with what I explained above, not everybody will like. I'm a solo player myself. I'm not associated with any guild for raiding or for anything really, but it doesn't hold me back from actually raiding through PUGs. We have four different modes of raiding. The final foe of the story isn't stopping anyone from experiencing the boss, except the queue button, whether if the encounter will take twenty seconds or twenty minutes.

[Deleted]

As a female gamer, I noticed that other female WoW players tend to really really HATE each other. I've only run into one or two who would verbally attack me, or flame me on realm forums, but I've seen it A LOT with others towards each other. I did have one girl who was CONVINCED I was trying to steal her boyfriend (with whom she lived, in a totally different country) just because I wanted to do arena with him, and another girl who flamed me left and right on the forums because a guy she was in love with did not return the feelings, and he was friends with me.

This is the kind of crap i would never expect to find in a videogame, MMO or not.
Maybe it is because i am male, and quite old for gaming standards, but seriously WTF? for stupid behaviour like that we already have real life.

[Deleted]

I mean they could easily accomplish the lore of the story being available outside of organized raiding.

Once the final boss has been dead for like a month, there opens up a quest chain in which the individual gets to "raid" with a bunch of NPCs (could even be modeled after the world first kill composition) where the casual "kills" the final boss seeing the story line. They could even make it interesting by giving the person some mechanic to do during the encounter. Nothing too difficult, but something more involved than AFKing while a group of NPCs does your work for you.

Or they could just do what they already do and have fucking LFR.

I like this idea with a little twist.

Say, after the first guild on realm has 'killed' the last boss of the expansion/patch/whatever, the rest of the realm has to hunt down the boss as he was only heavily wounded, not killed.

Of course this would only work a certain number of times, but i'm sure there could be other reasons made up to account for the solo experience being enriched somewhat.

[Glorious Leader]

As a female gamer, I noticed that other female WoW players tend to really really HATE each other. I've only run into one or two who would verbally attack me, or flame me on realm forums, but I've seen it A LOT with others towards each other. I did have one girl who was CONVINCED I was trying to steal her boyfriend (with whom she lived, in a totally different country) just because I wanted to do arena with him, and another girl who flamed me left and right on the forums because a guy she was in love with did not return the feelings, and he was friends with me.


Spelling and typographical errors aside, you can hang out with your friend/SO/family and still be committed to a game. You just need to work on Time Management. To say that someone is not committed to a game because they go out with people is silly.

Not surprisingly you all managed to miss the point. Its not that you cant go out with friends, its exactly how much of your life do you schedule and revolve around wow. That should be the definition of hardcore vs casual. A casual player is not as likely to commit scheduling his or her life around the game. Its fine if you do that but you are not a casual wow gamer and shouldnt have any pretense that you are.

[kubasniak]

First of all allow me to say that I am a casual player that enjoyes the AH game and earning gold etc.

Now... those who say that casual players should NOT have access to everything...
in some manner you are right, those who are interested in raids and to excell should be rewarded
BUT.... the mistake Blizzard does is to have lore endings, ending of lore storytelling within the raids
it is a great mistake because those who raids are not often interested in the lore ending or the movies
they just want to get the loot and to excell at doing hard modes and harder content.

solution is simple, change the game so that lore ending etc will be made solo content, for example
SWTOR has started with solo flashpoints, means that you can do solo things thats normally 5 man
and that is for pushing storyline onwards and does not have to be raiding

That accomplishes the difference that the raider people wants, they get their super raids with bosses
that does not necessarily have to do with the end of the storline. There can be made other bosses
and there are, but they also combine with such events that the casual player wants to see.

So, separate the casual content, storylinbe content from the raid content and everyone will be happy.
The raider can do storyline and solo mode if he/she wants and still be able to raid and do hard modes etc
while the casual player can plodd around doing his/her stuff and continue with the storyline
and everyone is happy. no?

anyone find anything bad with my reasoning?

Imo its bad idea. It is a multiplayer game not single. Now you as casual want to ruin what was made for raiders always. Unfortunately there is no single player wow so you cant really expect that anywhere. Ohh and there is LFR so there you can check story. Blizzard did enough for casuals believe me

[Factoral]

I'm a casual player, I don't mind the story being in raids just now because I'm not too fussed about it as long as I know what the story is and doing LFR isn't that big of a deal for me.

One idea of a thing they could do that will help with story aspects if raiding isn't your thing, put in a scenario that allows more casual players to get the story/cutscene of the last raid without having to go through 4/5 hours of raiding to do it. You can join a group scenario like Broken Shore, or a single player scenario where you fight with NPCs.

This could solve the issue, because instead of having a 45-1hour LFR raid or whatever you would have maybe a 15-20minute scenario of killing the big bad.

[Deleted]

Not surprisingly you all managed to miss the point. Its not that you cant go out with friends, its exactly how much of your life do you schedule and revolve around wow. That should be the definition of hardcore vs casual. A casual player is not as likely to commit scheduling his or her life around the game. Its fine if you do that but you are not a casual wow gamer and shouldnt have any pretense that you are.

I would go with that definition. The only appointments I have in WoW are with my guild, who also are RL friends. So, it's kinda like RL appointments for a gaming session. I don't want to run any other organised content (not that I am bad, but I just don't want to commit anymore, my raiding guild days are over), thus I am casual. I pug mythic0 dungeons and probably occasional raid bosses, I will probably pug Kara when I should have a day without any RL things to do, but that's it.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm a casual player, I don't mind the story being in raids just now because I'm not too fussed about it as long as I know what the story is and doing LFR isn't that big of a deal for me.

One idea of a thing they could do that will help with story aspects if raiding isn't your thing, put in a scenario that allows more casual players to get the story/cutscene of the last raid without having to go through 4/5 hours of raiding to do it. You can join a group scenario like Broken Shore, or a single player scenario where you fight with NPCs.

This could solve the issue, because instead of having a 45-1hour LFR raid or whatever you would have maybe a 15-20minute scenario of killing the big bad.

I liked the solution in Wrath, where they made a monument available after the server first kill of the LK, so everybody could see the cinematic (my guild was too slow in that matter, and at some point I quit and killed the LK in a pug...). On the other hand, the only quest which required you to complete ICC was the legendary Shadowmourne thing, which was a raid effort, available only to selected players and thus negligable. In Legion, we have the cockblocking of the artifact appearance storyline by excluding it from LFR, and this is not only relevant for every character and class, it's also a major setback for alts. In MoP and WoD, you could at least progress your legendary item in LFR if you did not have a raid spot for your alts.

[Faenskap]

As a female gamer, I noticed that other female WoW players tend to really really HATE each other. I've only run into one or two who would verbally attack me, or flame me on realm forums, but I've seen it A LOT with others towards each other. I did have one girl who was CONVINCED I was trying to steal her boyfriend (with whom she lived, in a totally different country) just because I wanted to do arena with him, and another girl who flamed me left and right on the forums because a guy she was in love with did not return the feelings, and he was friends with me.

I'm a female gamer too Well, I just play WoW. I've played with other females, but they were all behaving well. The more militant ones seem scary to come across, I don't envy you for having been in that position

[Zyky]

Your reasoning cites a game that died very fast(for a reason). Super casual players have the option to see raids in LFR. It requires no coordination, no leading, no effort. The only exception is mythic only phases, which to some degree have a lot of value to the story like ending the Cho'gall Arc in Highmaul. You as a casual player have the ability to either strive to get better to see these for yourself or continue being casual and watching it on youtube while you continue to play on the auction house. WoW has always been about playing with other people, sure you have plenty of solo content, but if you want more you should have to put the effort into doing more with other people. People need to get this "solo play" mentality out of their heads because WoW isn't a solo game, its an MMO and the first two words there are MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER. The game encourages you to play with other people and if you want more story than whats given you need to put more effort in to get it. The same that there are casual raiders who are content just clearing normal weekly and people who want more and raid mythic. The more effort you put in the more reward and playability you get from the game.

[Deleted]

I hate them.

I hate the fact, that people are demanding and not working for it. I don't want anything to do with them, I just want them to quit. I don't want to be the best, when the casual group makes it even harder, because they are getting more noisy and having it thier way. I don't want to fail in raids, because of simple mechanics or because they don't know thier class, instead invested in transmog or making gold.

I mean, if you don't have the time and energy, then quit. And no, you don't have to be unemployeed, single, no friends, no other hobby etc. in order to be game. Just don't sit and do nothing but whine.