Common Core Whining

[Elegiac]

The great thing about teaching college is that I get to tell the parents to fuck the hell off. Well, not quite those words but I have had to call security on a parent before because they couldn't accept the fact that their kid could fail a class.

I much prefer intellectually belittling them.

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Just about every cellphone has a calculator. isn't that enough?

Back when i was working with numbers, i simply used a calculator, and never had a problem. Its simple, and its way faster.

Just my 2 cents

You assume the answer is the point of learning math.

[caervek]

a bunch of idiots yelling that multiplication must be done before division even though they have the same priority

I always find those idiots funny

[hrugner]

A predecessor to common core was taught at the private school I went to. I honestly didn't know how other people did math till I left private school at 13(a lost job, a long move) in the early 90s. There were a number of other top end teaching methods being used at that school, proper string chunking, etymological origination of language, that sort of thing. I think that's how things are taught now, but apparently it wasn't the standard back then.

The chief problem with teaching common core, is that it is a good tool for smart kids and a bad tool for not so smart kids. Despite the fact that common core is required in my state, my daughter isn't really being taught common core. When I teach her how to do things "the easy way" she usually gets it pretty quickly and actually understands what happened when it involves applied math. With the other form, the solution is handled very abstractly, and there's no need to internalize any bit of the process. That being the case, students have more difficulty spot checking their work.

The push back against common core is emotional. People don't like change, and parents who have trouble thinking can't help their kids with their homework.

[Detritivores]

I used to be on the band wagon that hated on common core. I'm old enough to have not had common core and I turned out fine dammit!

But after actually looking at it, in particular the math, its actually trying to teach people how to do math correctly. It's the way I always did math in my head even though no one taught it to me. That it isn't intuitive to mid-aged parents who post their kids homework on facebook isn't terribly surprising. The opposition to it is certainly overblown.

[Krawu]

Just heard of this for the first time, and what a quick google search tells me is that it looks like they're trying to teach math to a retarded monkey. I mean, does a functionally normal human being after 1st grade really need to draw visual representations of 5 jars of marmalade in order to do calculations with them?
Last I remember, using fingers to count worked just fine for (very) small children, and everyone past age 6 should be able to do simple calculations in their head.

In the time it takes to solve any common core math problem, I could probably solve 3 or 4 problems the ordinary way because I don't have to spend 2 minutes drawing 24 boxes of cookies or something.

What's more, once you get into more complex fields of math, this stupid approach will lose any usefulness it ever had, since it's only applicable to extremely simple math problems by design.

[Independent voter]

I don't think I can do basic mathematics anymore, I use a calculator. Are you sure we aren't teaching kids something they don't need?

Just start at algebra and teach them how to simplify equations. It seems like a waste of time to teach subtraction, addition, division etc when there's a calculator everywhere, even a web browser can be used as a calculator.

Or do away with math and teach coding, like javascript or one of the new languages.

I'm thinking bang for the buck here.

[Deleted]

I've watched people use calculators to multiply by 0 or 1. I feel so bad for them.

Calculators are fine I think. The problem with them though is that most students still don't understand what they're actually doing. They memorize the process of how to use the calculator to get the answer to the question. This is especially true for an elementary statistics course.

I did my math classes in school, both with and without calculator and all of that shizzle, which is fine, as you said, we learn what we are actually doing right?
to be honest, i'm not the best at math, as it takes FOREVER for me to get to the answer, and it most likely wrong on my part anyway (depends on so much of course)

But then i started to work as a fork lift driver who took orders etc, and sometimes it was gigantic orders of specific numbers of (lets say) paper or whatever.
Which is just a hell-ish to do without a calculator haha (i have lost count over how many times, i have lost count..)
Then i started to use a calculator and boy.. my life got a whole lot easier lol

But again, that depends on so much

One funny thing tho, those people who worked at the warehouse were i was working, was scary good at math! i guess they were used to it after 20+ years or so lol

[hrugner]

I have a problem with schools today because if you ask someone:

6/2(1+2)=?

In order for that riddle to work you need to write it 6÷2(1+2)=?

The confusion comes from an old usage of the "÷" symbol as a stand in for the operations being broken up at that point as a fraction with the stuff to the left above and the stuff on the right below. If you just use the "/" symbol, then the ambiguity shouldn't happen. But, since I can't find the fricking "÷" on my keyboard anywhere, I doubt this problem would come up normally. I have no idea at what point since the 1700s the usage of "÷" changed, but it seems to have persisted for some people. Regardless, your computer won't use it that way, so it's pointless history.

According to this guy it was still used that way in 1895, but that's still far in the past.
http://www.matthewcompher.com/posts/...symbol-%C3%B7/

If anything, schools should teach kids to write better equations than this one.

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Or do away with math and teach coding, like javascript or one of the new languages.

I'm thinking bang for the buck here.

That's not a bad idea really. You end up changing how you write your math when you start coding anyway, so may as well learn it the right way the first time.

[I Push Buttons]

In order for that riddle to work you need to write it 6÷2(1+2)=?

The confusion comes from an old usage of the "÷" symbol as a stand in for the operations being broken up at that point as a fraction with the stuff to the left above and the stuff on the right below. If you just use the "/" symbol, then the ambiguity shouldn't happen. But, since I can't find the fricking "÷" on my keyboard anywhere, I doubt this problem would come up normally. I have no idea at what point since the 1700s the usage of "÷" changed, but it seems to have persisted for some people. Regardless, your computer won't use it that way, so it's pointless history.

According to this guy it was still used that way in 1895, but that's still far in the past.
http://www.matthewcompher.com/posts/...symbol-%C3%B7/

If anything, schools should teach kids to write better equations than this one.

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That's not a bad idea really. You end up changing how you write your math when you start coding anyway, so may as well learn it the right way the first time.

1. How is "/" old usage? US keyboards don't even have a ÷, / has been a go to shorthand for division.

2. You would only put the left above and the right below if it was written a/(b(c+d))... It wasn't written that way... So why would you assume everything on the right side was its own operation?

[Ryme]

Mixed feelings, I dislike how it reduces mathematics to the best trick for the sum which is bad form for anyone who would want to study further I've also seen some stupendous examples for bad methods (a simple google search reveals thousands of images of this).

Additionally, common core apparently increases the already widening gap between boys and girls with girls adopting to the style better than boys, which is a major concern.

On the other hand, I appreciate that most people hate and/or are bad at maths and this helps some students learn enough to have a passing ability to every day mathematics issues.

I think it's a net negative, but not nearly as bad as people claim.

[ItachiZaku]

Forcing kids to be self sufficient. They aren't getting 1v1 support in school, and by teaching things completely different from how their parents learned, means they won't be getting support at home either. If they have to work 4x as hard on their school work, they will have less time to rebel or think for themselves.

[Mormolyce]

I studied pure mathematics up to PhD level.

Don't bother learning arithmetic. You are surrounded by machines that can do it in the blink of an eye every waking moment. Waste of time.

If you want to learn mathematics, get a decent teacher to explain infinite series to you so that you aren't surprised when someone tells you that 0.999... = 1.

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Until I was taking like Geometry/Algebra 2 in 8th grade or whenever we weren't even allowed to use calculators.

They didn't let us use calculators, until late high school where they gave up and let us have scientific calculators, but not graphic.

My arithmetic still sucks

[Taneras]

I think the biggest problem is that common core is confusing to most parents. Children don't learn everything in their classrooms, lots of learning also takes place back at home. If parents don't understand how common core works they can't help their kids. An adult not being able to help their 4th or 5th grader with their school work would, obviously, be frustrating.

I'm not saying I'm for it or against it, as I haven't experienced it yet (my daughter is only 4 and a half), but I could understand how parental confusion about education could be frustrating.

[SirBeef]

Forcing kids to be self sufficient. They aren't getting 1v1 support in school, and by teaching things completely different from how their parents learned, means they won't be getting support at home either. If they have to work 4x as hard on their school work, they will have less time to rebel or think for themselves.

I never understood what the fuss was about common core. This is how I always did math in my head without even being taught this method. I found it to be easier and quicker.

[NED funded]

I studied pure mathematics up to PhD level.

Don't bother learning arithmetic. You are surrounded by machines that can do it in the blink of an eye every waking moment. Waste of time.

If you want to learn mathematics, get a decent teacher to explain infinite series to you so that you aren't surprised when someone tells you that 0.999... = 1.

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They didn't let us use calculators, until late high school where they gave up and let us have scientific calculators, but not graphic.

My arithmetic still sucks

Where do pure mathematicians work? The only fields that I can think of that are not academic or education is cryptography and machine learning. But for the latter you don't need to be a pure mathematician.

[Mormolyce]

Where do pure mathematicians work?

They don't, so I left my PhD and got a job in finance instead :P

Pure maths is basically only useful if you want to be a professor of pure maths. And I saw enough of what working in a university was like to know I sure as fuck didn't want that.

Pure maths was actually my attempt to move to a more employable field. My Bachelor was in Astrophysics...

[ItachiZaku]

I never understood what the fuss was about common core. This is how I always did math in my head without even being taught this method. I found it to be easier and quicker.

When I was in school, we had that bullshit of "2 points for the correct answer, 8 points for the setup", so that if you came out to the incorrect answer, you could still get 8 points if you did everything correctly, but the result was incorrect. I would always throw numbers at the equations, doing it all in my head and would be able to do that in seconds vs the long process of writing it all out.

My argument is for the dumb people with dumber kids.

[lonely zergling]

Didnt even know this existed. Weird stuff. "America - make easy things complicated because why not."

[Dsonsion]

I don't live in the USA, so I think I may be lacking context on this topic, but I can't see why it's a bad idea to teach kids this method. It's just another technique for additions and subtraction, it doesn't interfere with the notions behind said operations and it allows children to do the math in their head without the need of paper, which is great.

I have been in charge of teaching physics and math on high school level for a short time, and I wish the kids were able to do the operations in their head. Most of them didn't remember the "non-common core" technique properly and had forgotten how simple it is to do the stuff in their head, so the would end up using a calculator for stuff like 2-2=?.

[Mormolyce]

So I took the time to get past the memes and actually learn how this "common core" system is supposed to work. It's not meant to be faster than the rote-learned form of arithmetic, it's supposed to encourage you to get to the answer in an intuitive way that gives you more understanding of what you're actually doing. It's not bad. In fact the classic "243 - 87" example is actually easier in this way, to my mind. I always hated remainders.



243 - 87 = how many numbers are between 243 and 87?

Go by little hops to make it easier. You can make the hops as big or small as you want, but using 10s and 100s is obviously a really easy way.

87 -> 90 by adding 3 (you're getting it to a multiple of 10 because manipulating multiples of 10 is easy)
90 -> 100 by adding 10 (now it's 100, which is even easier)
100 -> 200 by adding 100 (one big hop that gets you almost all the way to 243)
200 -> 243 by adding 43 (super easy to get to the answer since we're working in multiples of 100)

So to get from 87 to 243 you hop up the number line by 3, 10, 100 and 43 = 156. Each step is extremely easy, no fiddling with remainders. And it makes what you're actually doing more intuitive, unlike the remainder system which is arcane and only intuitive once it's been ingrained in your head.

You don't need to take four steps here either, you could do it in less. And this method would scale to really large numbers quite easily.

So it's actually not bad at all if you take the time to learn it and don't just have an instant kneejerk reaction.

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But, since I can't find the fricking "÷" on my keyboard anywhere

Or a proper multiplication symbol.

And yet we have a tilde and a caret because lord knows you need those.