Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

They are criminals for providing unlicensed access to Bliz IP. Put it this way say if you subscribed to office 365 for a year and then after that year you found a service that allowed you to make a few changes to 365 and still login to a rogue 365 server and have similar access do you think Microsoft would go after them to shut it down? You better believe it, this is no different than Nost, Elysium or the all the other illegal servers. They are breaking IP and copyright laws, especially since many of them provide a download to the edited WoW software to connect to there illegal servers or provide you instructions on how to edit your software to connect. All of which is illegal.

And for the people who say well I purchased the software I should be able to use it as I see fit. First read your EULA, you never purchased the software but you have purchased the access to the subscription and the ability to use the software according to blizzards Terms and Conditions which are a binding contract. The software remains property of Blizzard and you are then breaking the binding contract you agreed to by connecting to third party illegal servers. Blizzard if they wanted to be assholes about it could hit every person with breaking the contract and ask for restitution but that is not in their best interests.

So please Maniac tell me again how they are not breaking the law. I would like you to provide some actual proof and not your heresay. The ball is in your court.

No financial benefit, no breaking the law. I'm European, from Spain, that's what the law said in here, so that's why i think about that. Happens the same to me with music, movies, books or any other thing. If i was american, maybe i will think other way but i have lucky not been born on USA.

And second, two quotes that i like reading other place:

What I'll truly never understand is why this debate is so bitter and contentious. It feels like we are arguing about politics.

We all love WoW, just in different ways. Yet this isn't enough for us to act civil to one another, calling each other wretched, childish, etc.

Can't we all just love WoW in whatever way we each individually want to?

I observe, that non-legacy supporters are irrefutably more pained about the concept of a legacy server, than those who legitimately have nothing more than the desire of such a server.

And i agree with both.

So...yeah, European madafacka i am!

[Triks]

They are criminals for providing unlicensed access to Bliz IP. Put it this way say if you subscribed to office 365 for a year and then after that year you found a service that allowed you to make a few changes to 365 and still login to a rogue 365 server and have similar access do you think Microsoft would go after them to shut it down? You better believe it, this is no different than Nost, Elysium or the all the other illegal servers. They are breaking IP and copyright laws, especially since many of them provide a download to the edited WoW software to connect to there illegal servers or provide you instructions on how to edit your software to connect. All of which is illegal.

And for the people who say well I purchased the software I should be able to use it as I see fit. First read your EULA, you never purchased the software but you have purchased the access to the subscription and the ability to use the software according to blizzards Terms and Conditions which are a binding contract. The software remains property of Blizzard and you are then breaking the binding contract you agreed to by connecting to third party illegal servers. Blizzard if they wanted to be assholes about it could hit every person with breaking the contract and ask for restitution but that is not in their best interests.

So please Maniac tell me again how they are not breaking the law. I would like you to provide some actual proof and not your heresay. The ball is in your court.

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But looking back at Vanilla which dungeons were the most frequently ran. UBRS, highly linear. Undead Strat, Had 2 areas but it was still linear, kill first 3 kill last 2. Scholo, Linear with optional bosses, Dire Maul North. Completely linear. The only true long adventure dungeon was BRD but it truthfully had 2 routes, move the bridge or not to move the bridge. All the other dungeons you went into once to get the quests done or would farm a specific boss(Mauradon for NR gear as an example).

How many times a day could you run, say, UBRS? Or better yet - Undead Strat because making a group for it was easier.

[bubbadubba]

Two things. One: my reply was as "vague" as the post I was replying to. Two: this isn't about difficulty itself, but about 'doing the same content, over and over'.

Two: If it is about 'doing the same content, over and over' then you don't make sense. The one is designed to be done in fast strides, causing you to do it over and over more quickly, this can cause someone to get bored of that content very quickly.

You then compare it to the single difficulty that takes longer to complete, so even if you are doing it over and over, it would take a longer period of time to actually complete it. This would then extend the duration it would take for someone to get exhausted of running the same dungeon over and over.

[Chaelexi]

No financial benefit, no breaking the law. I'm European, from Spain, that's what the law said in here, so that's why i think about that. Happens the same to me with music, movies, books or any other thing. If i was american, maybe i will think other way but i have lucky not been born on USA.

And second, two quotes that i like reading other place:
Spanish copy right law.





And i agree with both.

So...yeah, European madafacka i am!

Taken straight from Spanish Law

Database rights

The sui generis protection of databases was instituted by the Law 5/1998 of 6 March 1998 incorporating Directive 96/9/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 March 1996 on the Legal Protection of Databases.[5] The provisions are contained in Title VIII of Book Two (arts. 133–137 under the revised numbering), but are not included in the 1996 consolidated version of the Intellectual Property Law. Database rights specifically protect the "substantial investment" in the form of "finance, time, energy or effort", assessed "either qualitatively or quantitatively", which was necessary to create the database (art. 133.1).

The maker of the database, who may be a corporate person, can prevent a user from extracting "all or a substantial portion, evaluated qualitatively or quantitatively," of the contents of the database, either through a single access or through multiple accesses (art. 133). The user may not do anything which "conflicts with the normal exploitation of the database" or which "unreasonably prejudices the legitimate interests of the maker of the database" (art. 134) There are (limited) exceptions for the private use of non-electronic databases, for teaching and research and for public security and for administrative or judicial procedures (art. 135).

Database rights last for fifteen years from the completion of the database or from its publication, whichever is the later, although "substantial changes" to the database start a new period of protection: the protection runs to 31 December of the relevant year (art. 136). Database rights are independent of any copyright which might exist in the database or its contents (art. 137); for example, a database which relied on a subjective choice of material could qualify for copyright as a compilation, and a database of copyrighted works (for example, Wikipedia) does not override the copyright existing on individual entries.


They are stealing the database of Blizzard.

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How many times a day could you run, say, UBRS? Or better yet - Undead Strat because making a group for it was easier.

We did undead strat so many times that we would hit instance lock. So that was over 4 in an hour. UBRS took about 35-40 mins because of RP.

[Triks]

Taken straight from Spanish Law

Database rights

The sui generis protection of databases was instituted by the Law 5/1998 of 6 March 1998 incorporating Directive 96/9/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 March 1996 on the Legal Protection of Databases.[5] The provisions are contained in Title VIII of Book Two (arts. 133–137 under the revised numbering), but are not included in the 1996 consolidated version of the Intellectual Property Law. Database rights specifically protect the "substantial investment" in the form of "finance, time, energy or effort", assessed "either qualitatively or quantitatively", which was necessary to create the database (art. 133.1).

The maker of the database, who may be a corporate person, can prevent a user from extracting "all or a substantial portion, evaluated qualitatively or quantitatively," of the contents of the database, either through a single access or through multiple accesses (art. 133). The user may not do anything which "conflicts with the normal exploitation of the database" or which "unreasonably prejudices the legitimate interests of the maker of the database" (art. 134) There are (limited) exceptions for the private use of non-electronic databases, for teaching and research and for public security and for administrative or judicial procedures (art. 135).

Database rights last for fifteen years from the completion of the database or from its publication, whichever is the later, although "substantial changes" to the database start a new period of protection: the protection runs to 31 December of the relevant year (art. 136). Database rights are independent of any copyright which might exist in the database or its contents (art. 137); for example, a database which relied on a subjective choice of material could qualify for copyright as a compilation, and a database of copyrighted works (for example, Wikipedia) does not override the copyright existing on individual entries.


They are stealing the database of Blizzard.

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We did undead strat so many times that we would hit instance lock. So that was over 4 in an hour.

From start to finish with randoms/semi-guild group? I really doubt it or you were rushing it.

[Deleted]

No they are not stealing the database from Blizzard, they create one.

Also, that is database rights, what are you looking? Plus i'm sure that is not the database rights in Spain, leet me see for a minute. Took the criminal laws and the copyright law for Spain, Portugal, Italy or France for example and read if you want, no the database rights that also are just like a "guide book".

Plus i'm reading (in my language) the articles 130 to 139 and i don't know where you fin that but...

http://noticias.juridicas.com/base_d...1995.l1t7.html

If u want too see it.

[Deleted]

Cons- You can out gear the dungeons. If you didn't socialize it was challenging to get into groups.

I couldn't socialize in Vanilla in 2005 because the wonderful community in my realm was exactly the same as the one in the subreddit "Nostalrius", and "wowservers". I can say they did a wonderful job at recreating the Vanilla community by being arrogant, despicable, and extremely elitist against anyone who have a slightly different opinion. (So if i said i played since Vanilla, they would probably call me a liar.). There is jerks on both sides, but the pro-legacy seems in my eyes to be the most impatient one, and the most... mean.
Try to read, watch all the posts who shit on people who still have pleasure playing Legion, calling them worthless players, casuals, who don't like huge time-grind... euh, difficulty.

When i played Vanilla, no-one wants to play with me, i was a shit player (Doing PvP gave you a reputation of "Nope, no PvE for you"), who played shadowpriest ("You're not a mage? Sorry, i want a mage for Stratholme, even if i wait 2 hours for that.), and, even more horrible, can't play 10 hours a day to farm component for my fire resistance gear.

I wasn't demoralized at all, because i asked my sister who play shadowpriest too (Undead like me.), and we did all the 60 instance (From Stratholme to UBRS including Scholomance) as 2. Yep, 2. And we annihilate everything, because UD SP was broken as fuck in small content. Only the last boss from UBRS (Don't know his name in english) killed us.

[Triks]

I couldn't socialize in Vanilla in 2005 because the wonderful community in my realm was exactly the same as the one in the subreddit "Nostalrius", and "wowservers". I can say they did a wonderful job at recreating the Vanilla community by being arrogant, despicable, and extremely elitist against anyone who have a slightly different opinion. (So if i said i played since Vanilla, they would probably call me a liar.). There is jerks on both sides, but the pro-legacy seems in my eyes to be the most impatient one, and the most... mean.
Try to read, watch all the posts who shit on people who still have pleasure playing Legion, calling them worthless players, casuals, who don't like huge time-grind... euh, difficulty.

When i played Vanilla, no-one wants to play with me, i was a shit player (Doing PvP gave you a reputation of "Nope, no PvE for you"), who played shadowpriest ("You're not a mage? Sorry, i want a mage for Stratholme, even if i wait 2 hours for that.), and, even more horrible, can't play 10 hours a day to farm component for my fire resistance gear.

I wasn't demoralized at all, because i asked my sister who play shadowpriest too (Undead like me.), and we did all the 60 instance (From Stratholme to UBRS including Scholomance) as 2. Yep, 2. And we annihilate everything, because UD SP was broken as fuck in small content. Only the last boss from UBRS (Don't know his name in english) killed us.

With that attitude of yours, I am not surprised you weren't able to find people to play with.

[bubbadubba]

Classic and TBC "lasted" longer because you could't chain them and spam them like the ones from Wrath onward. In Classic and TBC I would run 1 dungeon, maybe 2 on a Sunday afternoon while after LFD was implemented I would run at least 3-4 per day.

It's no wonder people get burned out so fast.

Yeah this is what I am trying to get at. It also doesn't feel like an adventure anymore.

But if you look at the other side of the coin. Some people prefer quick runs for a multitude of reasons.

I do not want to take away that from those players, that is how they enjoy the game. It is unfortunate that the way I prefer the game is no longer available. This is why I am more pro-legacy then I was before, I wish everyone could enjoy the version they preferred playing. At this point I am very doubtful we will see a Legacy server in years though.

[Deleted]

Have fun doing the same five raids for another decade, Nostbabies.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

No they are not stealing the database from Blizzard, they create one.

Also, that is database rights, what are you looking? Plus i'm sure that is not the database rights in Spain, leet me see for a minute. Took the criminal laws and the copyright law for Spain, Portugal, Italy or France for example and read if you want, no the database rights that also are just like a "guide book".

Plus i'm reading (in my language) the articles 130 to 139 and i don't know where you fin that but...

http://noticias.juridicas.com/base_d...1995.l1t7.html

If u want too see it.

You do understand that there are other thing in play here besides just my "countries law." In the 1800's a treaty was establish called teh Berne Convention that is maintained by the WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization.) The treaty is that all countries that have adoptes it (which currently sits at 180 and all EU parties are members.) Will honor another countries Copyright and IP laws as their own.

Then in the 90's addendum was added specifically for database, computer programs, and computer art would also get full right coverage from all members of the treaty. Basically Spain, would give full protection to Blizzard's IP as the US would.

Just as an incase, Spain was one of the first adopters of these treaties. In 1886 and 1996.

[Triks]

Yeah this is what I am trying to get at. It also doesn't feel like an adventure anymore.

But if you look at the other side of the coin. Some people prefer quick runs for a multitude of reasons.

I do not want to take away that from those players, that is how they enjoy the game. It is unfortunate that the way I prefer the game is no longer available. This is why I am more pro-legacy then I was before, I wish everyone could enjoy the version they preferred playing. At this point I am very doubtful we will see a Legacy server in years though.

I am also doubtful. They gave us nothing at Blizzcon and now Nost went out and made a stunt like this. Dunno - since 2012 or Cata/Diablo III, Blizzard has been trying to get away from all of its classic games such as Diablo 2, Vanilla and TBC.

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You do understand that there are other thing in play here besides just my "countries law." In the 1800's a treaty was establish called teh Berne Convention that is maintained by the WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization.) The treaty is that all countries that have adoptes it (which currently sits at 180 and all EU parties are members.) Will honor another countries Copyright and IP laws as their own.

Then in the 90's addendum was added specifically for database, computer programs, and computer art would also get full right coverage from all members of the treaty. Basically Spain, would give full protection to Blizzard's IP as the US would.

Why is this even argued - having private servers is against the law.

[Darkeon]

Have fun doing the same five raids for another decade, Nostbabies.

I wouldn't exactly brag about that specific situation, having in mind the past years retail had with last patches content droughts.

[Naytham]

Have fun doing the same five raids for another decade, Nostbabies.

have fun playing a casual game with no community. have fun logging into the World of Broken Isles with your RNG, repetitive content, and pruned classes

[Chaelexi]

From start to finish with randoms/semi-guild group? I really doubt it or you were rushing it.

From start to finish, undead side only. It would be either my warrior tanking or my lock DPS'ing, friend's druid heals and friend's hunter dps'ing creative pulling with 2 randoms or guildies. We knew the route to take to get the least trash and used creative pulls to get bosses without trash where we could skip it.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

have fun playing a casual game with no community. have fun logging into the World of Broken Isles with your RNG, repetitive content, and pruned classes

Yes, because Vanilla didn't have RNG, repetitive content, and severally broken classes with 0 1 shot mechanics. Wonder how many vendorstrikes, you'll get in your MC runs.

[Triks]

From start to finish, undead side only. It would be either my warrior tanking or my lock DPS'ing, friend's druid heals and friend's hunter dps'ing creative pulling with 2 randoms or guildies. We knew the route to take to get the least trash and used creative pulls to get bosses without trash where we could skip it.

That's some mad skill there and I really mean it. However, is it comparable to a full PuG which LFD basically is?

[TheValkyrie]

Have fun doing the same five raids for another decade, Nostbabies.

Until you realize there's also TBC, Wotlk, Cata, MoP and even WoD private servers as well. The new Nostalrius server will most likely have a TBC server about 2 years from now as well that people will be able to copy their Vanilla characters to.

[Triks]

Yes, because Vanilla didn't have RNG, repetitive content, and severally broken classes with 0 1 shot mechanics. Wonder how many vendorstrikes, you'll get in your MC runs.

All classes had that 1 gimmicky spec. I'd take stupid gimmicks over sterile "balance" any day of the week because "balance" doesn't belong in an RPG. Your class has strengths and weaknesses for a reason.

[Deleted]

Have fun doing the same five raids for another decade, Nostbabies.

We will, thanks!