[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Deleted]

Realy would like to see the old Starsurge Spam back in the Game since i realy enjoyed that. But i guess that wont ever happen since it doesnt fit the new style of Play. Also having to ramp up Starfall is just annoying and 0 Fun. So giving back Charges or lowering the Cost would be a nice Step

[huth]

I think I was not clear in explaining my self. I was suggesting that mastery affect Starsurge in a different way instead of a static increase. A mechanic similar to empowerments to make it more interesting.

In that case you need to rewrite that suggestion entirely, because that's not what you said at all.

Also, that link only leads to a post with the exact same lack of usefullness but ten times as many words. That's not better.

[Lucrece]

Mastery could just be converted into Shooting Stars and replace the talent with something else. Points in mastery would increase the chance of shooting stars happening. Then bake the empowerment boost into the baseline spells themselves, or even dump that extra power into starsurge.

[Madus]

Since devs found our gameplay "solid", they should srs make moonfire and sunfire stack like for example 3 times so we dont track only duration but stacks too. Starfall and stellar flare could stack 2 times, while STFL would do most dmg without stacks and gen stacks over time while you could eat those stacks with SS for enhanced dmg on SF. SF would gen stacks while Sunfire direct dmg would eat them. This would help us tracking stacks on another 4 spells. Also Emerald Dreamcatcher drop rate should be buffed so more ppl can track stacks on 4 nukes instead 3 right now. FoE definitely need remake bcs no1 use it at all, so spell should cost no AP but would start with 20 stacks and slowly losing stacks while you would be able refresh stacks with SS. After that remake Starlight to increase effect of stacks by x% and we are golden.

[Myztikrice]

Since devs found our gameplay "solid", they should srs make moonfire and sunfire stack like for example 3 times so we dont track only duration but stacks too. Starfall and stellar flare could stack 2 times, while STFL would do most dmg without stacks and gen stacks over time while you could eat those stacks with SS for enhanced dmg on SF. SF would gen stacks while Sunfire direct dmg would eat them. This would help us tracking stacks on another 4 spells. Also Emerald Dreamcatcher drop rate should be buffed so more ppl can track stacks on 4 nukes instead 3 right now. FoE definitely need remake bcs no1 use it at all, so spell should cost no AP but would start with 20 stacks and slowly losing stacks while you would be able refresh stacks with SS. After that remake Starlight to increase effect of stacks by x% and we are golden.

Everything about this post is wrong and won't happen in that order.

[Commandor]

In that case you need to rewrite that suggestion entirely, because that's not what you said at all.

Also, that link only leads to a post with the exact same lack of usefullness but ten times as many words. That's not better.

To each their own, what you call "lack of usefullness" and other Boomkins valuable feedback has been forwarded to Slootbags which has done a great job covering most glaring issues. Leading to Celestalon acknowledging the underperofrmance of Balance druids. Even though he does not seem to agree that the minor suggested mechanic tweaks are not necessary.

Its such posts of yours of dissing other feedback with no grounds or even thought because they do not appeal to your personal taste dilutes the constructive feedback being provided sadly.

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1. I never said that it is boring because it affects all spells, I said it would be boring because it would be a FLAT damage increase. Also, the whole point of "mastery" is to do something better, not to just increase all dmg done by X%. Also, yes, intellect is a boring stat, why do you want more of them?

2. I would argue mastery not being amazing is NOT a problem, it scales poorly for multidotting and FoE, but on single target or starfall AoE it works fine. If you want mastery to be better you can just reduce the amount of rating required per percent. Also "mastery isn't working well" is not only extremely subjective, it also isn't explaining anything. Why is it not working well? Suggesting that Mastery should do something else is perfectly fine, but blizzard will never make huge revamps like that mid expansion, so it is rather useless at this point.

3. So you do not think that making the current gear set for everybody completely useless is a problem? Also the argument of having mastery being the best stat "because it is the mastery of the class" doesn't make any sense, if every spec in the game just stacked mastery, gearing would be increadibly stupid ("That piece of gear has no mastery? Guess we have to disenchant it since nobody in the raid can use it"). And no, top DPS specs don't always gear mastery, that is just straight up wrong.

Gebuz you have more experience with Balance druids than I do and I value your opinion and suggestions greatly. From your point of view being one of the best Balance druids in WoW.

1. To what extent do you agree with the following observations about Balance druids:
a. The mastery mechanic/value system in its current state/numbers makes Mastery a not favorable stat for Boomkins and puts haste considerably ahead.
b. The longer ramp up for AoE which is one of the longest in the game, does not pay off. Where other classess can burst and sustain higher AoE for the similar mob packs in Mythic10+. Which makes Balance somewhat unfavorable compared to other ranged classes (assuming similar gear and skill).
c. Talents like FoE have a great potential, but hindered by its extremely small radius and high AsP cost. Same goes for Warrior of Elune, SoTF and Stellar Drift.
d. The cost of Starsurge and Starfall is higher than the reward. This is proven via the logs of Boomkins with ED can compete well. Starfall cost also hinders a high sustainable AoE.
e. Gold traits such as Echoing Stars being extremely undertuned/doesnt work well. Same goes for Echoing Stars/Moon and Stars where the DPS gain is around 2-3%. Trinket procs do as high as 6-7% of total DPS. Gold traits should provide equal/more potential than trinkets based on talents vs gear items analogy.

2. If you think the points above completely miss the current top issues/room for improvement for Boomkins, then what do you think are the top 3 issues that needs to be addressed by the tuning team in 7.1.5?

[pies1]

Nythendra, Ursoc, Dragons and Il'gynoth are all fights where single-target is prominent with cleave or dot-cleave opportunities. I think this style of play fits those fights perfectly well.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1853
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1873
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1854
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1841

Dragons is the only one you listed in which moonkin is vaguely competitive.

[Slippykins]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1853
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1873
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1854
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1841

Dragons is the only one you listed in which moonkin is vaguely competitive.

If we received a buff to single-target our playstyle would suit those fights. I didn't say we're topping at the moment -- hence why Blizzard is considering a buff for our spec. I never claimed that we were doing well currently.

[Cyous]

Celestalon and Sigma are very well informed. When it comes to numbers, they know exactly what they're doing. When it comes to mechanics, suggestions calling for overhauls are thrown out immediately. If it's a bunch of sweeping changes, so be it. Minor tweaks can add up to a very big change. They know exactly what we want, it's up to us to come together as a community and filter out bad ideas and make the ideal changes stand above the rest.

It' sexactly like Alpha feedback. We got some major changes through tons of filtering and it's safe to say most player are loving Moonkin overall. Ofc, Starfall needs a bigger boost somewhere, and we're trying to cover as many issues with as few changes as possible. We have great gameplay. We just need to polish this overhauled spec even further.

[Deleted]

Imo the main issue is that Blizzard this time around decided to make categories for all abilities, and simple change animation + name for the proper class using them, by that i mean that. starfall costs 60% of our ressources, and is simple our aoe as a balance druid.

where if you look rain of fire, it costs 3 shards (60% of their ressources) where it has the lockish animation and name.

I don't know why, but this expansion looks like blizzard has copy pasted abilities to classes and simple changed name + animation.

Obv they didn't exactly do that, but that is how I see it. and I think its boring and sad at the same time.

[Lucrece]

Imo the main issue is that Blizzard this time around decided to make categories for all abilities, and simple change animation + name for the proper class using them, by that i mean that. starfall costs 60% of our ressources, and is simple our aoe as a balance druid.

where if you look rain of fire, it costs 3 shards (60% of their ressources) where it has the lockish animation and name.

I don't know why, but this expansion looks like blizzard has copy pasted abilities to classes and simple changed name + animation.

Obv they didn't exactly do that, but that is how I see it. and I think its boring and sad at the same time.

It just so happens that Rain of Fire is utter garbage as well. And has an even smaller diameter than Starfall.

[huth]

There's still some major differences in usage for the two.

[Madus]

Celestalon and Sigma are very well informed. When it comes to numbers, they know exactly what they're doing. When it comes to mechanics, suggestions calling for overhauls are thrown out immediately. If it's a bunch of sweeping changes, so be it. Minor tweaks can add up to a very big change. They know exactly what we want, it's up to us to come together as a community and filter out bad ideas and make the ideal changes stand above the rest.

It' sexactly like Alpha feedback. We got some major changes through tons of filtering and it's safe to say most player are loving Moonkin overall. Ofc, Starfall needs a bigger boost somewhere, and we're trying to cover as many issues with as few changes as possible. We have great gameplay. We just need to polish this overhauled spec even further.

I still wonder why they dont make DoTkin possible (with talents ofcourse). Stellar flare is like 6 years failure. Im pretty sure that many moonkins like DoT centric playstyle more like current nuke one.

[Deleted]

It just so happens that Rain of Fire is utter garbage as well. And has an even smaller diameter than Starfall.

starfall radius is increased due to our passive effect.

but yeah both are garbage. we have a gold trait that makes our starfall somewhat "ok" as well as our mastery.

but honestly the ability itself is as crap as rain of fire.

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I still wonder why they dont make DoTkin possible. Stellar flare is like 6 years failure. Im pretty sure that many moonkins like DoT centric playstyle more like current nuke one.

true i loved when we had procs from dots. even thou i hate stellar flare, as i've never liked it.

[huth]

Actually, Starfall simply has a huge radius by default. Only it's range is increased by our passive.

[Adramelch]

we have a gold trait that makes our starfall somewhat "ok" as well as our mastery.

No it doesn't.

[huth]

No it doesn't.

More like it takes Starfall's damage from "shit" to "shit but with more sparkles".

[Adramelch]

It did 1.8% of my overall damage on Helya, a fight which essentially the trait is designed for (I was using SD and all).

[MV Kaa]

I thought boomkins were in a decent spot, especially since I have helm and ring, Until this week in ToV. So much movement. Gave up trying to AoE on Helya and went single target just so I can be relavant on boss damage and Mariner damage.

[Markurius]

On the topic of making talents baseline my two candidates would be Starlord and Nature's Balance.

Why?

They are both passive and seemingly boring for being talents but when u take them u have some great QoL improvements that u miss dearly when without them. Starlord because it's awesome with faster casts and it makes empowerments more fun. Nature's Balance because it's a blessing to not have to refresh dots as often. Hence why almost every balance druid I see have taken them.

Making them baseline and coming up with more interesting talents (passive or not) would make me glad.

Other than that I'd like one more cc baseline, Vortex or Cyclone, hell even Hibernate wouldn't be bad.