Is mage gear dependant or am I just bad?

[Ilnezhara]

Hey guys,
This is me: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nezhara/simple

I'm a new mage and I have to say, I've absolutely fallen in love with the class. I main a druid but I have such an obscene amount more fun on my mage that I barely want to play my main.

I have a problem however, all the love (and luck) in the world isn't helping the fact that I do 130k DPS at iLvl 832 with 49% crit. Single target, of course, it's not hard to press living bomb.

Now I'm not looking for a diagnosis, as I haven't raided and have no logs to show, but I have some pointed questions that I wouldn't mind a solid answer to. Oh, and if someone feels the need to tell me I'm bad and don't deserve the ring I got yesterday, I don't blame you / think you're wrong.

1) RoP question: When is the optimal time to use the second RoP? What should I be looking for before using it? Is it more important to have a period of time where I can stand still for most of it or is it more important to have 2 stack FB and Flame On available?

2) Phoenix Flames: I don't get it, this has to be THE most clunky ability I've ever seen and I have no doubt that a lot of my DPS problems stem from here. So take this situation as an example:
- No Flame on
- No Fire Blast available in the next GCD
- Heating up Proc
- Mid fireball cast
- PF about to cap at three stacks

Now, according to Rinoa's guide, we should never let flames cap at three stacks but, evaluating this situation in my mind, I see two options and only one of them is good.

- Fireball doesn't crit, removes heating up, flames crits and I'm back to casting fireball and praying (although, it's likely that given the GCD eaten by the flames cast that I'd have a Fire Blast to follow up with so I'd jump back into the rotation)
- Fireball crits, Phoenix Flames Goes off, I now am delaying my Hot Streak by the remaining GCD triggered by Phoenix Flames. This seems not as bad as the previous case, but still obnoxious.

Maybe I'm over analyzing but I'm pretty sure my problem lies either with my PF usage or my fireball thought process, which I'll get to in a moment.

3) Combustion: Given Kindling, how much should I delay this to line it up with Flame On?

4) Fireball : (where I'm sure my issue is). We've all had those cases where we get lucky and have a Heating Up proc, cast a Fire Blast mid cast, Proc Hot Streak, and then both our fireball and Pyro crits. Then we're stuck on GCD with a Hot Streak proc. My question is this: Is it better to cast a Fireball before using this Hot Streak proc? Or should I just fire it off and Fireball after? This is mostly relevant on fights like Nethendra where you stand close to the boss and have the result of your fireball + Pyro before such a time as you should already be casting fireball.

I really thank anyone who takes the time to read that and help me out, I truly appreciate it!

[Deleted]

Hi,

I think your gear is fine and you should be able to dish out more dps than this small 130k. 1st of all do you do your opening correctly ? If you have no clue on how to do it sites like altered-time or icy veins can help a lot.

Now onto your questions :

1) RoP question: When is the optimal time to use the second RoP? What should I be looking for before using it? Is it more important to have a period of time where I can stand still for most of it or is it more important to have 2 stack FB and Flame On available?

I always do back to back RoP (during combustion and when it just expired)

2) Phoenix Flames: I don't get it, this has to be THE most clunky ability I've ever seen and I have no doubt that a lot of my DPS problems stem from here. So take this situation as an example:
- No Flame on
- No Fire Blast available in the next GCD
- Heating up Proc
- Mid fireball cast
- PF about to cap at three stacks

Now, according to Rinoa's guide, we should never let flames cap at three stacks but, evaluating this situation in my mind, I see two options and only one of them is good.

- Fireball doesn't crit, removes heating up, flames crits and I'm back to casting fireball and praying (although, it's likely that given the GCD eaten by the flames cast that I'd have a Fire Blast to follow up with so I'd jump back into the rotation)
- Fireball crits, Phoenix Flames Goes off, I now am delaying my Hot Streak by the remaining GCD triggered by Phoenix Flames. This seems not as bad as the previous case, but still obnoxious.

Maybe I'm over analyzing but I'm pretty sure my problem lies either with my PF usage or my fireball thought process, which I'll get to in a moment.

I use phoenix flames in two cases only : During combustion and during movement phases I rarely use it to gain a hot streak proc (too unreliable)

3) Combustion: Given Kindling, how much should I delay this to line it up with Flame On?

Never use Flame On outside of combustion if you use kindling, if Cinderstorm then you can use it once between Combustions

4) Fireball : (where I'm sure my issue is). We've all had those cases where we get lucky and have a Heating Up proc, cast a Fire Blast mid cast, Proc Hot Streak, and then both our fireball and Pyro crits. Then we're stuck on GCD with a Hot Streak proc. My question is this: Is it better to cast a Fireball before using this Hot Streak proc? Or should I just fire it off and Fireball after? This is mostly relevant on fights like Nethendra where you stand close to the boss and have the result of your fireball + Pyro before such a time as you should already be casting fireball.

Always cast a fireball even if you got lucky and got an instant Hot Streak after your FB + PB cast.

Hope it helps

[LightBR]

I'm sur the more saavy people will come to help you.

But from what i know, yes fire mage is extremely dependent on gear, specifically Crit gear.

I can answer you question #3: if you are using kindling never, ever, ever use flame on outside of combustion. You will always have it on CD when combustion is available so just don't. Use flame on exclusively on combustion if you have indling picked as talent.

The rest i'll leave for the more experienced mages.

Cheers,
Light

[Ilnezhara]

Thanks everyone, really appreciate it! ^_^

[Deleted]

Hello 876 Fire Mage here!

I can tell you that gearing as a firemage is like a rollercoaster. Right now it may seem that you have a point where everything is on CD and there is not much to do than just either use Phoenix Flames (Never do this unless u have your Artifacts trait) or just wait it out by casting fireballs. As you reach 860+ you will notice that you rather will cap on fire blasts and you will have moments where 1 is always ready, because your fireballs and Pyros always crit.

The place where you should lay your focus is to get more Crit and then get a lot more crit. Almost Always ignore item lvl if u get more crit on it.
Another thing is that you should try to get your hands on Wriggling Senew Trinket, it is really nice in Mythic+ and dungeons in generel since it can do a lot of dmg in a short time, and it is also BIS for raiding.

Last thing you should learn by practicing, which is the most important thing about firemage is managing your CD's and get the most out of your Combustion!
I would almost say that 50% of our dps is from Combustion if not more.
When there is 20-30 sec left on Combust and you are using kindling, stop using Fire Blast and get 2 charges, Have flame On Ready have 3 Charges of Phoenix.
The thing you want to do then when Combust is about to be ready is to Fish for a Heating Up, and then use 1 Phoenix to force a Instant Pyro.
After that Cast Rune, Cast Combust and just go crazy with Pyro > Fire blast > Pyro > Fireboats > Pyro > FLAME ON > FireBlast > Pyro > FireBlast > Pyro > Phoenix and so on. This is a general way to do it, With Lust and Racial (troll) U can do 1 more Pyro.

To talk about Rune Usage
You always want 1 rune up for Combustion, always!
Another thing I like to do in general with RoP, u mentioned it yourself, have 2 stacks of fireblasts to get as many pyros out during the RoP. We can go deeper into this with Rune Usage, for example Ursoc Mythic at times there will be a second mob which will be up for around 10 Seconds, more or less.
If i just used my runes at random or when I just felt too I would get a increased 50% dmg ignite on just 1 mob, but if I waited for the second mob I would get a ignite with 50% increased dmg from fireball on 2 mobs. And since Rune of Power lasts for 10 Seconds, this is a perfect window.
On single target Ignite does roughly 27% of my total dmg in this window it will do the double and I still get full ST on the boss without losing dps.
As you mentioned yourself you also want to ensure that you can stand in the RoP the whole time or it can be a big waste.

Else the Firemage Rotation is straight forward, you always want to be casting a your instant Pyros after a hardcast fireball.
Fire is a hard speech to master, it takes a lot of practice.
And those who say it is easy to play, don't know exacty how to play it.

I hope this gave some perspective on the way I like to play fire and how I think to play it optimal right now.
People are welcome to come with input and so on. Sorry if my english is a little sassy, but I am so busy right now, but always want to help a fellow mage

[Ilnezhara]

Holy crap, amazing post. That's a lot of information to process but thank you so much!

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Do you have any particular set of WAs that are awesome?

[Scynthetic]

Holy crap, amazing post. That's a lot of information to process but thank you so much!

- - - Updated - - -

Do you have any particular set of WAs that are awesome?

I've been using Powered's auras (ran cross them on youtube) plus another one for HC Pyro from the legendary bracers and I really like the combination of the two.

[Deleted]

Holy crap, amazing post. That's a lot of information to process but thank you so much!

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Do you have any particular set of WAs that are awesome?

I can Create some for you when I get home from my trip if you are interested

[genzic8787]

sinew is great not a word of a lie but its a use trinket and there are times when the universe does not all line up and it fails to impress. i love baton get it soon and get it often.. i just redid the wq this week and it upgraded to a 850. in all 5 man content run LB its a win but you need almost 13% haste for it to benefit more so you may need to use a haste trinket to get that which i currently do. purchase shadow ruby necklace and upgrade it 8/8.. best purchase i made in game as of yet (enchant it with HS) and u will use it and love it well into your 870's

[Deleted]

874 Fire mage here.
eu(dot)battle(dot)net/wow/en/character/kazzak/Nartzilo/advanced (I cant use links yet it seems, just replace (dot) with .)

The best tip i can give you is practice your burst rotation. It needs to be there via muscle memory.
Make sure that all cd's are ready, bothe fire blasts, flame on(if you use kindling, never use this out of combustion), 2-3 stacks of phoenix and so on.
The way i start a fight vs boss or a nice large pack in M+ is as follows(Altho in M+ i also use Living Bomb).

Pre pot and wriggling sinew
Rune of power
Scorch - Use combustion when the cast is nearing its end
Press a macro that use berserking, neck and all other dmg cd's, also use BL at this point.
Fire blast
Pyro
Fire blast
Pyro
Flame on
Fire blast
Pyro
Fire blast
Pyro
Phoenix flame
Pyro
Phoenix flame
Pyro
Phoenix flame
Pyro - If you have done things correct, your combustion and first Rune of power should go out now.
Rune of power - Use seccond since you still have BL, but use normal rotation and fish for pyro's from here on out.

I know full well that in some situations you might want to save the seccond ROP for spesiffic things, but this is what i usually do.
Sorry for the shit english, not my native tongue^^

Lexichu from Method have a very nice guide on Fire Mage. Complete with some WA and some tips and tricks.
www(dot)method(dot)gg/board/showthread.php?18950-Lexi-s-Fire-Mage-Guide

[Silentbob78]

Is it really possible to fit all that in the time frame of RoP. I would think Scorch + GCD would be more than 10 seconds?

[Deleted]

Nah, i dont have a problem with it atleast, remember fire blasts are off cd and BL is on. And in my play atleast i have berserking aswell.
But yeah, thats why you need to have it in muscle memory, since you need to click fast and it needs to be the correct spells.

[Ilnezhara]

Thank you so much, very helpful, I'll pour over that guide.

[viserok]

I just wanted to reiterate what others have said. The key to mastering this spec is getting comfortable with your burst rotation and CD usage (I.E. combustion, Flame on, RoP, Phoenix Flames/trinkets). A giant part of your DPS is nailing your combustion usage. Nearly 50% of our DPS comes from a proper combustion cycle.

If you're new to raiding or are very unfamiliar/uncomfortable with the movement that many raids have don't be afraid to switch to Incanters Flow temporarily. Your DPS will drop roughly 75k-100k but that is still preferable if you don't know how to move in the raid and use your abilities. Nothing is worse than dropping your RoP and popping your CDs to have some mechanic happen where you have to move out of your run and lose the 50% spellpower bonus. Once you learn the fights and know when you can utilize your CD's then switch back to RoP. Don't stress about your phoenix flames being at 3 stacks. If your crit is high enough you'll find your 2 fireblasts will be enough to keep the pyros coming. Most raid encounters have tons of movement. Those are the times to use your phoenix flames (and ice floes) as you reposition.

In short, practice practice practice your opening and save up your fire blast/flame on/RoP 30 seconds before combustion comes off cooldown. You can get 2 more RoP uses in between your next combustion so use those liberally when you know you can stay near your rune for 10 seconds. Happy raiding and goodluck!
I'm a 863 Mage and I pull a sustained 250,000k DPS with no cooldowns and about 575k-600k DPS with RoP+Combustion.

[Silentbob78]

Nah, i dont have a problem with it atleast, remember fire blasts are off cd and BL is on. And in my play atleast i have berserking aswell.
But yeah, thats why you need to have it in muscle memory, since you need to click fast and it needs to be the correct spells.

I need to practice