Trial of Valor is Overtuned

[Arachnofiend]

If they die to not side-stepping it just isn't the boss being overtuned, it's them being lfr raiders... it's such a simple mechanic..

What about dying to the unavoidable raid damage? Because that's definitely been happening to people in my group. It would be happening to me if I wasn't constantly spamming Healing Surge on myself during that mechanic.

[Nico3337]

Just Blizzard's fault for undertuning EN. They made it too accessible. If you're a heroic raider you should be spending the whole tier on heroic content just like mythic raiders spend their time on mythic. Heroic is not supposed to be a joke difficulty. EN Heroic WAS a joke difficulty.

This.. whatever quality of raider you are, you should have a challenge in doing the appropriate content.

[Deleted]

This.. whatever quality of raider you are, you should have a challenge in doing the appropriate content.

No, you shouldn't.

Again, that isn't what normal mode is for. Normal mode is supposed to be something like LFR, minus all the strangers. Its not supposed to be the next difficult step for HC raiders from the previous tier.

[Nico3337]

What about dying to the unavoidable raid damage? Because that's definitely been happening to people in my group. It would be happening to me if I wasn't constantly spamming Healing Surge on myself during that mechanic.

most classes have a personal cd, then they can use a healing pot or healthstone and the healers should obviously save their big cd's for this, as it's the only time people actually take alot of damage on the fight

[fabonaut]

Oh bugger off, its normal mode. You are supposed to be able to clear it with people who don't care, do bad damage, miss mechanics etc. its not a progression run - its for friends and family who don't care much.

No, not on the first day. It's the normal mode of a raid, not a dungeon or a group quest. It's supposed to be hard on this difficulty for these kinds of players.

[Gaidax]

I never died on Guarm, I know how to fucking side step.
Half the group doesn't and dies.

Again, you are a mythic raider, this is not made for you.

I don't even understand why the 3 of you keep replying.
They can make Mythic as hard as they want and raid the ilvl drops by 40 I just don't care.
I don't need this shit in Normal raids where it should be a walk in the park for any casual piece of shit like most people in my guild.

Why do you 3 care so much how hard Normal & Heroic is? Its not meant for you.

So basically there should be no mechanics in raids, otherwise, God forbid, people will fail on them and die?

Again what you are saying is your problem, if you are so good and play flawlessly, but half of your guild is unable to execute a rather trivial mechanic, then your fault is that you set yourself in such a guild, if, on the other hand, you stay there because beer, friends and family, then set your expectations accordingly that they will wipe on encounter mechanics day one until they eventually learn not to stand in such things as clearly telegraphed charge. Heck it's like the most lenient of these kind of one shots comparing to what we had with trains, barrage or roll which arguably are more difficult to avoid for pugs and F&F groups.

[Deleted]

No, not on the first day. It's the normal mode of a raid, not a dungeon or a group quest. It's supposed to be hard on this difficulty for these kinds of players.

Nope, its not supposed to be hard at all.

And this isn't hard, its impossible at the gear and ability levels we are talking about.

If you've only done normal EN, you are sitting around 845-80 ilvl. A raid of people like that, who also underperform are not killing anything in TOV normal.

[Nico3337]

No, you shouldn't.

Again, that isn't what normal mode is for. Normal mode is supposed to be something like LFR, minus all the strangers. Its not supposed to be the next difficult step for HC raiders from the previous tier.

why would we have two LFR's? if you just want to go through tourist mode you should just play lfr, it's there and everyone can do this, you can also queue your guild for lfr if that's what you want.. Normal should be a place where the bosses do the intended mechanics, heroic where the mechanics are more punishing and mythic more punishing + new mechanics that needs to be dealt with.. I really don't see why normal should be sawed over by normal-quality raiders, it's supposed to be challenging to defeat bosses, that's the purpose!

[Deleted]

why would we have two LFR's?

Because that's the design goal - to have a friends and family experience.

if you just want to go through tourist mode you should just play lfr, it's there and everyone can do this, you can also queue your guild for lfr if that's what you want.. Normal should be a place where the bosses do the intended mechanics, heroic where the mechanics are more punishing and mythic more punishing + new mechanics that needs to be dealt with.. I really don't see why normal should be sawed over by normal-quality raiders, it's supposed to be challenging to defeat bosses, that's the purpose!

no, it isn't. its NOT supposed to be challengng to beat the bosses on normal mode.

And again, this isn't challenging, its actually not possible at the gear and performance levels we are talking about. Go and get a group of grandmas who have 845 ilvl and who does 70% of their max dps on a good day and clear tov with them. Good fucking luck.

[Sarevokcz]

Just Blizzard's fault for undertuning EN. They made it too accessible. If you're a heroic raider you should be spending the whole tier on heroic content just like mythic raiders spend their time on mythic. Heroic is not supposed to be a joke difficulty. EN Heroic WAS a joke difficulty.

and ToV difficulty has nothing to do with EN difficulty, they just need to stop pretending normal ToV normal is supposed to be for people raiding normal EN and adjust the loot to better reflect the difficulty of the raid, but if the raid drops 855s, its reasonable to assume you should be able to do it in 845-850 gear... which ou can, but you need to perform on mythic raider level, which doesnt even make sense, as if you can perform on that level, you wouldnt be running normal

[Gaidax]

Well I am sure Blizzard will cave in soon and fix it to be a faceroll. Just have a bit of patience.

[Deleted]

The problem is more that the loot is complete garbage, so its not even worth the effort!

[trm90]

I was dumb to dismiss everyone's whining about overtuning yesterday, my guild is only 2/7M but we spent the entire night wiping on Heroic Odyn. The fight is extremely fun but 1000g of repairs, 3 flasks, and 3 hours of wiping... on a boss which drops 870... it absolutely does not feel worth it when we can just faceroll Heroic EN in 1.5 hours for roughly the same gear.

That said, I'd rather they just buff the ilvl by 5-10 and not nerf anything. I'd rather have bosses be brick walls than loot pinatas a la WotLK style.

[kamuimac]

Am I the intended audience? Of course not. But 99% of this thread are people who have no idea how to deal with mechanics the right way, or their raiders stand in bad stuff.

Does that make a raid hard? No, it makes them bad players.

so in your eyes anyone below top 50 is bad player

oh boy this thread is going places

/grab popcorn and sits in the corner this will be fun

[arcaneshi]

I was dumb to dismiss everyone's whining about overtuning yesterday, my guild is only 2/7M but we spent the entire night wiping on Heroic Odyn. The fight is extremely fun but 1000g of repairs, 3 flasks, and 3 hours of wiping... on a boss which drops 870... it absolutely does not feel worth it when we can just faceroll Heroic EN in 1.5 hours for roughly the same gear.

That said, I'd rather they just buff the ilvl by 5-10 and not nerf anything. I'd rather have bosses be brick walls than loot pinatas a la WotLK style.

Same, but we are 4/7M, and seems like our dps is shit. FeelsBadMan

[Sonnillon]

That said, I'd rather they just buff the ilvl by 5-10 and not nerf anything. I'd rather have bosses be brick walls than loot pinatas a la WotLK style.

That's very reasonable tbh, giving each difficulty an ilvl boost, while still keeping it lower then the difficulty in NH same difficulty would be the ideal choice.

I don't like wiping, but the challenge is nice, coming up with ways to improve is nice, it's not boring and dull like EN is. The bosses are mechanical, I guess that Guaram is even killable with low gear if people don't die.

Not dispelling on time, not moving from charge or staying in the cone you suppose shouldn't be excuses even for uber casual people. It's just simple things which you have to pay attention to. Yes, people make mistakes but they still should learn from the mistakes. Not learning and bringing the excuse of being a F&F guild is just not right.

[Deleted]

That's very reasonable tbh, giving each difficulty an ilvl boost, while still keeping it lower then the difficulty in NH same difficulty would be the ideal choice.

I don't like wiping, but the challenge is nice, coming up with ways to improve is nice, it's not boring and dull like EN is. The bosses are mechanical, I guess that Guaram is even killable with low gear if people don't die.

Not dispelling on time, not moving from charge or staying in the cone you suppose shouldn't be excuses even for uber casual people. It's just simple things which you have to pay attention to. Yes, people make mistakes but they still should learn from the mistakes. Not learning and bringing the excuse of being a F&F guild is just not right.

Is normal TOV clearable in normal EN gear, even if you do mechanics perfectly?

No.

You won't get past the dog due to lack of numbers.

[Hctaz]

Nope, its not supposed to be hard at all.

And this isn't hard, its impossible at the gear and ability levels we are talking about.

If you've only done normal EN, you are sitting around 845-80 ilvl. A raid of people like that, who also underperform are not killing anything in TOV normal.

Yes. Yes it is supposed to be hard. You don't understand how raiding works then. Most casuals couldn't even clear the old normal difficulty so they made an even easier one. LFR is supposed to be absolutely faceroll. Normal is supposed to be a challenge for complete newbies to raiding and those who normally only do LFR. It's still going to be hard. Old normal used to be kinda difficult for the guild who weren't clearing halfway or more into mythic. EN normal is NOT supposed to be this easy. If you're a normal mode raider then you are supposed to spend the whole tier progressing through normal and then MAYBE get into heroic a little. Heroic raiders are supposed to MAYBE progress into mythic.

[Fenixhart]

No this is the flaw with Blizzard's new gearing system. They realized it with EN. People had much higher gear than the instance was tuned for. Mythic plus gear was "capped" at 865 but because it could titanforge you had guilds walking into Mythic EN for the first time with 875+ item level. The reason you're seeing this raid be so overtuned is because the difficulty per gear rewards were too easy prior. EN should have been tuned harder on all difficulties. Guilds shouldn't be able to walk into EN heroic, clear the place, and not understand what the heck just happened. I know that was my experience the first week. No clue how to handle some of the mechanics at all and lots of misinformation be we still cleared it.

That literally had nothing to do with or even counter what I said but okay.

[Tehterokkar]

so in your eyes anyone below top 50 is bad player

oh boy this thread is going places

/grab popcorn and sits in the corner this will be fun

I never said that. Just said that if you go to a raid and expect LFR level forgiveness in dealing with mechanics, you are stupid. Dog runs around the room? Gee better stand in it!