Need help with some clarifications with 865 Fury please!

[tubbylobo]

Hey guys. I've followed the forums and guides (Icy Veins, mmo-champion, wowhead) regularly but the answers that I have need seem to be in a lot of threads and some left un answered. So please help me out if you can.

1. Can you guys please help me with what went wrong on this fight? The only thing i'm jewing out on are the potions and haste gems. Using the cheaper "Potion of prolonged power" than "Potion of the Old war". Here's the link to HC Ursoc with my Ilvl at 865. Simming says I need to do 350k while I did much lesser.
wwwDOTwarcraftlogs.com/reports/bv4xrQpKywfjka27#fight=6
My armoury Link
euDOTbattle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Decoytank/simple[/url]

2.With regard to my rotation :A. DR>wait for GCD>BC+BT>RB>OF>BT>RB. Now after this it gets a little confusing, at least to me. I next use Rampage>RB, I still have Enrage on, do i immediately followup with a BT or should I wait for Enrage to wear out to BT and vice versa, If I BT, get enraged>RB, do I wait for enrage to wear off a bit before I hit rampage or do I use Rampage as soon as I finish RB?
Also on occasions I would would've been off enrage and RB would be available with BT having maybe .5 to 1 second cd, on those occasions do I wait for BT or just RB and then BT. {VERY IMPORTANT AND CONFUSED HERE}
B. Why is bad to use whirlwind below four targets? My rotation with three raiding dummies always give out more dmg than the one adviced. I always use whirlwind before I BT or Rampage and RB on CD.
C. I use DR on cd. After the 2nd-3rd DR, it gets a little confusing to line BC>OF with DR always, on these occasions do I hold on to BC>OF until I get DR?Also how many seconds shall I hold off BC>OF if Avatar and DR are under cd? Ex- If the other cds have another10-15 seconds shall i wait it out?

3. I ran a simple sim on my char and got these results : Haste -11.72,Mastery- 10.05, Vers -9.14, Str-8.25, Crit - 7.26
I am going for the 50% Haste as advised. Are these stat gains correct? Is strength actually that low? Cause I use pawn and have entered these values and it advices me on gear. Am I doing it right?

Some of these questions might seem noobish to you but please take the time to answer them as they are bugging me to no end. Greatly appreciate the help and will be responding with more questions too. Thanks a lot!

[Deleted]

Can you link the guides you are following?

[Deleted]

Hey,

not saying I am really better than you but maybe I can still help.
Here is my log from Urso: wwwDOTwarcraftlogs.com/reports/bDwkPQRg7rMfqBvx/#fight=3&type=summary
What I can see are some differences in our damage sources. Your third damage source is rampage, mine is execute. This could be connected to the fact that your guild brings down ursoc faster and the execute phase is shorter.
But I also assume that you use Carnage and not Massacre? In your wowhead it looks different but maybe you changed it? I am really confused why you have so much rage to use for rampage.

Otherwise I completly agree with your opening rotation as it was suggested here multiple times. Question is, do you get your 2nd RB into the enrage window with 30% haste? I am currently at 35% and it works, you should look at that.

All in all I guess we are in the same boat. I have slightly more dps because of the prolonged execute phase.
Note that simcraft also takes this into account!

[tubbylobo]

Can you link the guides you are following?

wwwDOTicy-veins.com/wow/fury-warrior-pve-dps-guide
wwwDOTwowhead.com/fury-warrior-guide

- - - Updated - - -

Hey,

not saying I am really better than you but maybe I can still help.
Here is my log from Urso: wwwDOTwarcraftlogs.com/reports/bDwkPQRg7rMfqBvx/#fight=3&type=summary
What I can see are some differences in our damage sources. Your third damage source is rampage, mine is execute. This could be connected to the fact that your guild brings down ursoc faster and the execute phase is shorter.
But I also assume that you use Carnage and not Massacre? In your wowhead it looks different but maybe you changed it? I am really confused why you have so much rage to use for rampage.

Otherwise I completly agree with your opening rotation as it was suggested here multiple times. Question is, do you get your 2nd RB into the enrage window with 30% haste? I am currently at 35% and it works, you should look at that.

All in all I guess we are in the same boat. I have slightly more dps because of the prolonged execute phase.
Note that simcraft also takes this into account!

Hey, I have a shit ton of rage cause of my legendary Head Piece. So I get to rampage much much sooner than others.
No I use Massacre and not Carnage.
And yes I DO get the second RB.

[Deleted]

wwwDOTwarcraftlogs.com/reports/RXGCTZByV742gkAv#fight=2&type=damage-done&start=2692311&end=2964877

Report from yesterday's Ursoc kill.
Your opener is correct, but how to continue afterwards:
You want to maximize your Enrage uptime. With the low crit that Fury builds tend to involve (15-20%), it is absolutely pivotal that you are liberal in your use of FS, as much as people are telling you not to. High Haste/Mastery simply requires it. I'm using Fury much more as a rotation-based dps than a priority based dps, and it's working so far. (420k single target, blaze it)
A typical start of the fight would be:
DR > (BC/BT > RB > OF > BT > RB) --> FS > Ramp > RB > FS > BT > RB > FS > BT > RB > FS > Ramp.

The rotation is as followed:
RB on cooldown
FS(Substitute with DR within 2 gcd's of it coming off cooldown, only if next ability is BT with 3 stacks of FS or Rampage)
BT(Substitute with Rampage whenever available)
Rinse and repeat until BC comes off cooldown. If BC comes off cooldown 1 gcd after, or on the cooldown where you have enough rage for Rampage, use Rampage > RB before proceesing into BC rotation (DR > BC/BT > RB > OF > BT > RB)

Mob <20%
(Execute whenever available till Massacre proc to get Enrage started.
Rampage with Massacre procc)
3x Execute
Rampage with Massacre
<20 Rage, no enrage : BT
<20 Rage, enrage up: RB

[Deleted]

Very interesting. I basically follow the same rotation but I guess I can still improve some things.
But you are still dealing 140k dmg more than me. Can you link me your arsenal?

[Deleted]

Very interesting. I basically follow the same rotation but I guess I can still improve some things.
But you are still dealing 140k dmg more than me. Can you link me your arsenal?

euDOTbattle.net/wow/en/character/ragnaros/Feralyn/simple
On the last Ursoc kill I was still 875, so slightly closer to your gearlevel.

There's always a very fine line between ''basically'' doing the same thing and doing the same thing There's only so much the basic rotation can do for you, you need to become one with the Fury specc, Valarjar.
Just keep playing it a lot, and you'll start to see the room for improvement, it's about being aware of how much damage all your abilities do, and how you can positively influence the synergies the spec offers.

[Deleted]

http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/fury-warrior-pve-dps-guide
http://www.wowhead.com/fury-warrior-guide

Thanks. I read the guide on the official wow forums lately and thought it was pretty good.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20747195056

I found it hard to find a recent fury dps guide for 7.1 that factors in buffs fury received.

[Deleted]

euDOTbattle.net/wow/en/character/ragnaros/Feralyn/simple
On the last Ursoc kill I was still 875, so slightly closer to your gearlevel.

There's always a very fine line between ''basically'' doing the same thing and doing the same thing There's only so much the basic rotation can do for you, you need to become one with the Fury specc, Valarjar.
Just keep playing it a lot, and you'll start to see the room for improvement, it's about being aware of how much damage all your abilities do, and how you can positively influence the synergies the spec offers.

I completly agree. I still see a lot of improvement has to be done but I think I am close to a "very good" rotation. But the last % of improvements are always the hardest.
Your armory link does not work for me though.. My fault?

[Deleted]

I completly agree. I still see a lot of improvement has to be done but I think I am close to a "very good" rotation. But the last % of improvements are always the hardest.
Your armory link does not work for me though.. My fault?

Replace the DOT at the beginning with a .
Possibly put http: // before the url

[Lorkin]

3. I ran a simple sim on my char and got these results : Haste -11.72,Mastery- 10.05, Vers -9.14, Str-8.25, Crit - 7.26
I am going for the 50% Haste as advised. Are these stat gains correct? Is strength actually that low? Cause I use pawn and have entered these values and it advices me on gear. Am I doing it right?

I would take that hard Haste rule with a grain of salt. When I first started out, I basically stacked Haste wherever I could. Once I realized that I could NOT hit 50% haste (It's impossible with the current gear level), I started to switch to more Mastery Gear items. I'm sitting at 25% haste and 40% mastery and doing well so far. I'll have a new EN Heroic log this Friday I can post, but here's my info from last week. I've gotten some upgrades since then so hoping to do better on this week's run:

Character: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Cecil/advanced
Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HJzyDm7CVt6jwARv/# [Cecil toon]

You have slightly better gear than me, so technically you should be doing more damage than me, but are not. Also you are missing the Nythendra fight so it's hard to tell what you did there. The 2 fights that are hard to parse for warriors is Eye and Spider boss, but the rest are pretty straight forward tank and spank almost.

You'r Enrage uptime is a tad low, and surprising since you have the Legendary Helm. I would assume that since you said:

Hey, I have a shit ton of rage cause of my legendary Head Piece. So I get to rampage much much sooner than others.

That you could literally use Rampage whenever you wanted to that you Enrage uptime would be much higher. I approach that differently because I have the legendary Execute ring. Its RNG when that procs, which has a chance to proc Enrage, but basically my Enrages overlap at times. So for me, I have to keep and pay attention to the Enrage buff and try to use RB and other things to not overlap Enrage that much. I'm aiming to have a 70%-80% Enrage uptime if possible, which when you think about it is a TON of extra damage.

[tubbylobo]

Replace the DOT at the beginning with a .
Possibly put http: // before the url

Your Armoury link doesnt work for me either. Replace the DOT with an actual "."
Hmm you're pulling 420k on mythic Ursoc with 875 gear. Im 865 on HC Ursoc pulling 270-290k. Thats a huge difference I feel. Not sure WHAT im doing wrong? Could you address the rotation problem that I might be fucking up? I've mentioned it on the post below

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I would take that hard Haste rule with a grain of salt. When I first started out, I basically stacked Haste wherever I could. Once I realized that I could NOT hit 50% haste (It's impossible with the current gear level), I started to switch to more Mastery Gear items. I'm sitting at 25% haste and 40% mastery and doing well so far. I'll have a new EN Heroic log this Friday I can post, but here's my info from last week. I've gotten some upgrades since then so hoping to do better on this week's run:

Character: usDOTbattle.net/wow/en/characte...Cecil/advanced[/url]
Logs: wwwDOTwarcraftlogs.com/reports/HJzyDm7CVt6jwARv/#[/url] [Cecil toon]

You have slightly better gear than me, so technically you should be doing more damage than me, but are not. Also you are missing the Nythendra fight so it's hard to tell what you did there. The 2 fights that are hard to parse for warriors is Eye and Spider boss, but the rest are pretty straight forward tank and spank almost.

You'r Enrage uptime is a tad low, and surprising since you have the Legendary Helm. I would assume that since you said:

That you could literally use Rampage whenever you wanted to that you Enrage uptime would be much higher. I approach that differently because I have the legendary Execute ring. Its RNG when that procs, which has a chance to proc Enrage, but basically my Enrages overlap at times. So for me, I have to keep and pay attention to the Enrage buff and try to use RB and other things to not overlap Enrage that much. I'm aiming to have a 70%-80% Enrage uptime if possible, which when you think about it is a TON of extra damage.

Hey, Am I doing something wrong? Your Armoury link isnt working too!! The logs is opening up just fine.
Coming back to my rotation. So I use Rampage, If I have nothing but BT to use I use it, even though Ive just been enrage. Vice versa too, If i just hit BT and got enraged, I use rampage if I dont have anything else to use. Are you saying I should hold off on BT and Rampage if i've just been enraged and fill it in with Furious slash (RB on cd is a given so Im not mentioning it)

[Rastlin]

Your Execute phase priorities are not good, you should prioritise executes exclusively, unless you have no enrage -> Rampage from procced Massacre, when running low on rage -> in 30ish rage ranges, you would use RB or BT.

You are using RB in execute phase way to much imo, and NOT using Rampage enough as well. Enrage maintenance in ex phase is really important and so is getting high Jug stack count. With leg helmet you should be swimming in rage really, and should not require to BT or RB in execute phase almost at all.

Also drink potions, on Ursoc you hadn't used any. They give a ton of dmg. No food also I would slap you if I was your RL .

Some log to compare:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=12

[Lorkin]

Coming back to my rotation. So I use Rampage, If I have nothing but BT to use I use it, even though Ive just been enrage. Vice versa too, If i just hit BT and got enraged, I use rampage if I dont have anything else to use. Are you saying I should hold off on BT and Rampage if i've just been enraged and fill it in with Furious slash (RB on cd is a given so Im not mentioning it)

Look at your logs or any other fury warrior logs. Your top dog damage is Raging Blow (RB). Then you have Melee which you can't do much about since its auto attack when you keep in range. Then it's usually Rampage. Your top damage is Raging Blow and Rampage. If you could sustain a rotation that allowed you to simply use those 2 abilities, I would try to do so. The rest of the abilities (Blood Thirst - BT and Furious Slash - FS) are just fillers to used to proc the top 2 abilities.

I leave out execute because that's "generally" only in the execute phase. That's too much of a wild card for all peoples considered, but Execute itself would be one of the top 3 abilities. I have the legendary ring, so Execute sometimes is #2 if the ring procs like crazy that fight. Some people have so much dps in their raid that they have short boss fights, and more ratio of the fight is in the execute phase. So because of all those random factors, it's hard to simply say Execute should be top 3 of your "used" abilities.

So having that out, just hyper focus on RB and Rampage. Rampage procs Enrage, so that adds even more damage overall (from melee auto attacks and GCD reduction). So for example, say you have 2 Rampage procs available to you (from Massacre) and 1 RB ability off CD, AND you are NOT Enraged. What do you do?

I would use Rampage first, to proc Enrage, THEN use Raging Blow, then use Rampage again. This ensures you get Enrage up asap, then use Raging Blow for the awesome damage, then reuse Rampage to keep Enrage going. You could try to throw in a filler in there too, but remember that your top damage abilities should take priority.

Now with that same scenario, some people might use Rampage twice in a row. Why is that bad? Some people might use RB first, THEN use Rampage twice. Why is that bad. See once you start to see the complex window of keeping Enrage up for at least 70% of the fight coupled with using your RB ON CD if possible, you start to see how difficult it is to present a "static rotation". For me I couple that in with Random Execute procs, which procs Massacre, which gives me more Rampages. You have the Legendary Helm which gives you TONS of rage, enough to use Rampage more than normal warriors can. These all factor into the randomness of Fury and you have to adapt to your own situation.

But the overall goal is to keep Enrage up AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, while using Raging Blow ON CD. That is the underlining premise of how to get your numbers up. Everything else is a "filler" with some buff CD's thrown into the mix.

For the execute phase, I generally try to only use 3 abilities (minus CD refreshing). Execute > Rampage > Raging Blow. I'm spamming Execute at this point since our Artifact weapon has Jugg and free execute procs. I'm using Rampage with the free Massacres to keep Enrage going. And I actually use Raging Blow AS A FILLER in this phase. You have to shift priorities during execute phase to adapt to getting your numbers up here. Execute gets stronger and stronger the longer the phase. And Rampage is almost used strictly to keep Enrage going. Raging Blow is actually a filler in case your rage drops so you can't Execute.

[tubbylobo]

Your Execute phase priorities are not good, you should prioritise executes exclusively, unless you have no enrage -> Rampage from procced Massacre, when running low on rage -> in 30ish rage ranges, you would use RB or BT.

You are using RB in execute phase way to much imo, and NOT using Rampage enough as well. Enrage maintenance in ex phase is really important and so is getting high Jug stack count. With leg helmet you should be swimming in rage really, and should not require to BT or RB in execute phase almost at all.

Also drink potions, on Ursoc you hadn't used any. They give a ton of dmg. No food also I would slap you if I was your RL .

Some log to compare:
wwwDOTwarcraftlogs.com/reports/JtKZBgDwVqhyGN7f#fight=9&type=damage-done&source=12[/url]

Oh God. I must've forgotten on that fight for some odd reason. I always use Food and Pots(Potion of prolonged power). Please dont slap me RL sensei
I'll remember to prio Execute and rampage only during execute phase henceforth. I used to prioritize RB a lot during execute without letting jugg stacks fall off. Will stop now.
Could you please shed some light on this too:
I use Rampage>RB, I still have Enrage on, do i immediately followup with a BT or should I wait for Enrage to wear out? And vice versa, If I BT, get enraged>RB, do I wait for enrage to wear off a bit before I hit rampage or do I use Rampage immediately?
Also on occasions I would would've been off enrage and RB would be available with BT having maybe .5 to 1 second cd, on those occasions do I wait for BT or just RB and then BT.

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Look at your logs or any other fury warrior logs. Your top dog damage is Raging Blow (RB). Then you have Melee which you can't do much about since its auto attack when you keep in range. Then it's usually Rampage. Your top damage is Raging Blow and Rampage. If you could sustain a rotation that allowed you to simply use those 2 abilities, I would try to do so. The rest of the abilities (Blood Thirst - BT and Furious Slash - FS) are just fillers to used to proc the top 2 abilities.

I leave out execute because that's "generally" only in the execute phase. That's too much of a wild card for all peoples considered, but Execute itself would be one of the top 3 abilities. I have the legendary ring, so Execute sometimes is #2 if the ring procs like crazy that fight. Some people have so much dps in their raid that they have short boss fights, and more ratio of the fight is in the execute phase. So because of all those random factors, it's hard to simply say Execute should be top 3 of your "used" abilities.

So having that out, just hyper focus on RB and Rampage. Rampage procs Enrage, so that adds even more damage overall (from melee auto attacks and GCD reduction). So for example, say you have 2 Rampage procs available to you (from Massacre) and 1 RB ability off CD, AND you are NOT Enraged. What do you do?

I would use Rampage first, to proc Enrage, THEN use Raging Blow, then use Rampage again. This ensures you get Enrage up asap, then use Raging Blow for the awesome damage, then reuse Rampage to keep Enrage going. You could try to throw in a filler in there too, but remember that your top damage abilities should take priority.

Now with that same scenario, some people might use Rampage twice in a row. Why is that bad? Some people might use RB first, THEN use Rampage twice. Why is that bad. See once you start to see the complex window of keeping Enrage up for at least 70% of the fight coupled with using your RB ON CD if possible, you start to see how difficult it is to present a "static rotation". For me I couple that in with Random Execute procs, which procs Massacre, which gives me more Rampages. You have the Legendary Helm which gives you TONS of rage, enough to use Rampage more than normal warriors can. These all factor into the randomness of Fury and you have to adapt to your own situation.

But the overall goal is to keep Enrage up AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, while using Raging Blow ON CD. That is the underlining premise of how to get your numbers up. Everything else is a "filler" with some buff CD's thrown into the mix.

For the execute phase, I generally try to only use 3 abilities (minus CD refreshing). Execute > Rampage > Raging Blow. I'm spamming Execute at this point since our Artifact weapon has Jugg and free execute procs. I'm using Rampage with the free Massacres to keep Enrage going. And I actually use Raging Blow AS A FILLER in this phase. You have to shift priorities during execute phase to adapt to getting your numbers up here. Execute gets stronger and stronger the longer the phase. And Rampage is almost used strictly to keep Enrage going. Raging Blow is actually a filler in case your rage drops so you can't Execute.

Thank you for such an indepth reply. Much appreciated. So, what i've gathered from this thread is that RB during execute is just a filler. Could you please help me out with this too:
I use Rampage>RB, I still have Enrage on, do i immediately followup with a BT or should I wait for Enrage to wear out to BT and vice versa, If I BT, get enraged>RB, do I wait for enrage to wear off a bit before I hit rampage or do I use Rampage as soon as I finish RB?
Also on occasions I would would've been off enrage and RB would be available with BT having maybe .5 to 1 second cd, on those occasions do I wait for BT or just RB and then BT.

[Lorkin]

I use Rampage>RB, I still have Enrage on, do i immediately followup with a BT or should I wait for Enrage to wear out to BT and vice versa, If I BT, get enraged>RB, do I wait for enrage to wear off a bit before I hit rampage or do I use Rampage as soon as I finish RB?
Also on occasions I would would've been off enrage and RB would be available with BT having maybe .5 to 1 second cd, on those occasions do I wait for BT or just RB and then BT.

To try to simplify what a typical fight looks like, let's reduce it down to a Patchwerk type encounter. Lets assume a tank and spank where you don't have to move more out of range or anything like that. The following should be your BASELINE rotation AFTER the opening:

[Opening]>
[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]

As seen above, you can fit 2 fillers between Raging Blow attacks. Those fillers should primarily include Rampage which procs Enrage. You'll also likely use Bloodthirst for the smaller chance to proc Enrage. Weave in short CD abilities that come up from time to time like DR and OF. And then when NOTHING else is available, you can use FB. (I weave in executes from my legendary ring proc) Now overlay the top with the Enrage Window:

[RB]-----[RP]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[RP]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[RP]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[RP]-----[ ]-----[RB]---
========[----------Enrage--------]=====[----------Enrage--------]===========[----------Enrage--------]=[----------Enrage--

With +18% Haste, you can fit in 3 attacks for each Enrage window. Ideally you want to keep Enrage up all the time. To do that, the only reliable method is to time your Rampages in an efficient manner. The more chances you have to actually use Rampage, the better. Rampage will ALWAYS be better than Bloodthirst in damage, but it's not on CD like BT is. For me, I toss in executes to proc massacre, to proc free Rampages. For you, you should have more rage from Enrages to proc Rampage more. Using BT is mostly a filler and should be used whenever the top 3 abilities can't be used.

Now back to your question. Do you wait for enrage to wear off before you hit Rampage or do you use Rampage as soon as you finish RB? Using the above guideline, RB > Rampage ESPECIALLY if you are Enraged already. So YES YES YES, if RB is up use it ALWAYS if you are Enraged. In your scenario, follow up with Rampage to reproc Enrage. Now if you are not enraged already, I would use Rampage first to proc Enrage, then use RB.

2nd question, you would be off enrage and RB is available with BT being close. I would just use RB in that scenario. BT is NOT a guaranteed proc of Enrage. Now if Rampage was about to be available, you could wait to use Rampage if it's that close. The main reason is that you'll use Rampage, which procs Enrage, then use RB to get more rage for Rampage.

Take a look at my logs from last night's Heroic EN run. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/amNdWY21GHb7kBxD/ Should be in my sig as well now.

[tubbylobo]

To try to simplify what a typical fight looks like, let's reduce it down to a Patchwerk type encounter. Lets assume a tank and spank where you don't have to move more out of range or anything like that. The following should be your BASELINE rotation AFTER the opening:

[Opening]>
[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]

As seen above, you can fit 2 fillers between Raging Blow attacks. Those fillers should primarily include Rampage which procs Enrage. You'll also likely use Bloodthirst for the smaller chance to proc Enrage. Weave in short CD abilities that come up from time to time like DR and OF. And then when NOTHING else is available, you can use FB. (I weave in executes from my legendary ring proc) Now overlay the top with the Enrage Window:

[RB]-----[RP]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[RP]-----[RB]-----[ ]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[RP]-----[ ]-----[RB]-----[RP]-----[ ]-----[RB]---
========[----------Enrage--------]=====[----------Enrage--------]===========[----------Enrage--------]=[----------Enrage--

With +18% Haste, you can fit in 3 attacks for each Enrage window. Ideally you want to keep Enrage up all the time. To do that, the only reliable method is to time your Rampages in an efficient manner. The more chances you have to actually use Rampage, the better. Rampage will ALWAYS be better than Bloodthirst in damage, but it's not on CD like BT is. For me, I toss in executes to proc massacre, to proc free Rampages. For you, you should have more rage from Enrages to proc Rampage more. Using BT is mostly a filler and should be used whenever the top 3 abilities can't be used.

Now back to your question. Do you wait for enrage to wear off before you hit Rampage or do you use Rampage as soon as you finish RB? Using the above guideline, RB > Rampage ESPECIALLY if you are Enraged already. So YES YES YES, if RB is up use it ALWAYS if you are Enraged. In your scenario, follow up with Rampage to reproc Enrage. Now if you are not enraged already, I would use Rampage first to proc Enrage, then use RB.

2nd question, you would be off enrage and RB is available with BT being close. I would just use RB in that scenario. BT is NOT a guaranteed proc of Enrage. Now if Rampage was about to be available, you could wait to use Rampage if it's that close. The main reason is that you'll use Rampage, which procs Enrage, then use RB to get more rage for Rampage.

Take a look at my logs from last night's Heroic EN run. wwwDOTwarcraftlogs.com/reports/amNdWY21GHb7kBxD/[/url] Should be in my sig as well now.

Thanks a ton for replying to all my queries, I really appreciate it and cannot thank you enough. I will try and alter my rotation a bit to implement all your suggestions. Thanks again!