Trial of Valor is Overtuned

[Deleted]

She drops lower than mythic EN and is considered harder than the first half of mythic EN. In the context of this tier the raid is overtuned for the rewards. People will just largely do EN instead if it's not changed (and as I've heard changes were already made)

It makes sense though. It's not that much of an issue if Hellyeahloot is harder than mythic EN as her loot is at least close to mythic EN. The bigger issue is the other bosses where the loot is 5ilvls higher than the HC/NM EN rewards while the bosses are a lot harder.

Also, a lot of people don't seem to understand that challenging means different things to different people. Going from NM & some HC cleared to normal mode should be possible as the ilvl you have would be roughly the same. Right now for the people at which NM is targeted at they're pretty much fucked as they perform below average and don't heavily overgear the instance. Same thing goes for HC + some M cleared.

At the moment it's not really worth it for a lot of people to go into a raid that is a lot more difficult compared to what they are used to doing for a 5ilvl upgrade. Either up the rewards somewhat so that people know what they are fighting or nerf the raid somewhat(which is happening right now).

Challenging is fine but it needs to be challenging to the people the difficulty is aimed at not people who overgear the loot the instance drops.

[Socialhealer]

This guild has killed Heroic Xavius today and nobody is above 870.

i stopped reading there, so a guild that took 2 months to clear EN hc should walk into ToV heroic and start getting kills? what crack are you smoking they're going to take 2 months to clear ToV like it took them 2 months to clear EN why should progress be fast in ToV but it's fine to take 2 months in EN.

[Inuyaki]

i stopped reading there, so a guild that took 2 months to clear EN hc should walk into ToV heroic and start getting kills? what crack are you smoking they're going to take 2 months to clear ToV like it took them 2 months to clear EN why should progress be fast in ToV but it's fine to take 2 months in EN.

You stopped reading even before obviously, because you completely didn't understand his point.
PLEASE think before you answer on stuff, because otherwise you look like an idiot.

I mean he wrote nowhere that this guild should start killing bosses left and right in ToV hc...

[EzG]

Helya was a tad rough for a heroic boss, but even if she drops "lower ilvl" it's what she drops that actually might be more valuable than any mythic en gear. A nifty stat stick? Yes please. As for 99% of the gear from that place it definitely doesn't match up with the "difficulty." That being said most of the mechanics are easy enough with a sound strat and the new mini nerf on odyn and guarm make everything a little easier. The 4 minute enrage was definitely going to make that boss impossible for the average guild. This is like the Malygos to Wotlk Naxx. It was a little hard and not a ton of people saw it for progression, I'm one of those. We are only two days into the new 3 bosses, take your time and don't worry if it takes you a couple nights to clear a heroic raid even if you only need that one niche piece from it cause the rest sucks.

[Echocho]

The solution is quite simple, get better gear. You need an average iLvl of 865 to beat normal ToV and 875 to beat the heroic version.

[Sarevokcz]

The solution is quite simple, get better gear. You need an average iLvl of 865 to beat normal ToV and 875 to beat the heroic version.

yeah, that makes sense, given that normal tov drops 855-60 and heroic drops 870-75 gear... wait a minute...

[KaPe]

The solution is quite simple, get better gear. You need an average iLvl of 865 to beat normal ToV and 875 to beat the heroic version.

You realize that this makes the loot pointless, right? You'd run it once for achievement and don't waste your time, except for Mythic mode...

Assuming it's not balanced around full 890.

[Propainn]

The best part about this thread, are these 7/7 mythic raiders who feel personally offended when people complain that heroic TOV is overtuned. Please get over yourself. Noone is trying to take your accomplishments away, but honestly noone cares about them either.

If you cant agree that this is overtuned in comparison to EN, especially in mythic - then youre just BSing yourself. Loot should be a good indicator of the avarage item level you need, and in this case it doesnt match at all.

Ive seen so many 885-895 pieces of gear on people, and thats just sheer luck in titanforging. Why should any 2/3 day a week guild bother with wasting hours on heroic (and weeks on mythic) when 5 mans just drop better.

That's what happens when people clear a tier (if you could even call EN that) at a relatively quick-ish pace for the first time in their lives.

I remember my first beer...

[Echocho]

You realize that this makes the loot pointless, right? You'd run it once for achievement and don't waste your time, except for Mythic mode...

Assuming it's not balanced around full 890.

The gear can still titanforge. I suspect this is what blizzard had in mind when they tuned the raid. Grind emerald nightmare for titanforged gear until you can do ToV and then you do the same there in order to be able to do nighthold.

[Rogalicus]

The gear can still titanforge. I suspect this is what blizzard had in mind when they tuned the raid. Grind emerald nightmare for titanforged gear until you can do ToV and then you do the same there in order to be able to do nighthold.

But 5 itemlevels difference still doesn't outweigh huge jump in difficulty. You'll get far better loot in mythic+.

[Socialhealer]

You stopped reading even before obviously, because you completely didn't understand his point.
PLEASE think before you answer on stuff, because otherwise you look like an idiot.

I mean he wrote nowhere that this guild should start killing bosses left and right in ToV hc...

it's implied idiot, maybe you should git gud, clearly you're another baddie.

[Confucius]

don't you guys see, this is blizzard's test for nightmare raid and how things will look when fights are designed around people having legendaries

[Deleted]

Let me correct you - before the nerf it was 4 minutes, now it is 5 minutes. Please keep up with the changes .

People who have cleared normal, play for lulz should have at least 850 gear by now. By the looks of it the people in your guild who have killed ToV's 1st boss have 860ish.

I have 863 gear, I log during weekdays for my 3 raids only (of which the last one offers me nothing cause I will be loot locked anyway). Outside of that over the weekend I play maybe between 6-8 hours, while doing maybe 1 m+ with 1 affix only. Please don't tell me that getting 850 even for someone who plays the game for fun is hard.

I'm not - i'm telling you that casual playing people in F+F guilds with 850 gear aren't ever going to kill anything in normal TOV.

Even if they did, its pointless, they won't get upgrades.

[EzG]

I'm not - i'm telling you that casual playing people in F+F guilds with 850 gear aren't ever going to kill anything in normal TOV.

Even if they did, its pointless, they won't get upgrades.

What do you define an upgrade. More ilvl? That's funny because my Sephuz ring could have been replaced by an 850 at one point. Or even trinkets, why should my 855 darkmoon card be more worthwhile than an 880 trinket. Upgrades is subjective as all items might be different per class that might need more stats over another or can drop some intellect or strength to grab a soft cap in a secondary stat. It all depends. The stat sticks from ToV are nice, and while ilvl may not be there with the raid difficulty the items themselves certainly can be.

[Demonidze]

give it couple weeks for people to learn tactics and everything will be back to normal.

[deadman1]

The solution is quite simple, get better gear. You need an average iLvl of 865 to beat normal ToV and 875 to beat the heroic version.

That makes no sense, you've just confirmed that it's overtuned.


If you need better gear than it drops to do it, then it's overtuned.

[Gaidax]

People simply need to L2P, a lot of wipes are purely to quite trivial mechanics, like dying to Guarm's charge or Flashing Fangs or to shield of light on Hyrja or not killing bloody adds in runes.

The only genuinely difficult encounter in ToV is Helya, but she drops awesome gear, not only ilvl close to Mythic, but gear itself is really really good, like amazing stat stick think or gear with actual useful stats.

I mean really, pray tell HOW it is possible to die to Guarm's Charge? How? Not only it is bloody perfectly telegraphed, but he also does it in a perfect static square movement AND it's literally a bloody sidestep all it takes to dodge. How people can wipe to it?

[DakonBlackblade]

The gear can still titanforge. I suspect this is what blizzard had in mind when they tuned the raid. Grind emerald nightmare for titanforged gear until you can do ToV and then you do the same there in order to be able to do nighthold.

Nighthold, albeit not a new tier by definiton, is kinda like a new tier. Mythic + will be readjusted to drop better gear, Normal and heroic Nighthold will drop some very good ilevel gear themselves, you have tier sets giving ppl more dps/hps/survivability etc. Theres no pararel btween Nigthold and ToV as ToV is suposed to be the continuation of EN progression, not a new tier of raiding. Also if Blizz is tunning things considering ppl are dropping titanforgeds left and rigth they should bump the droprate of titanforgeds to like 100% because things don't work that way at all. And lastly since the cealling of titanforged ilevel is always 895, if the point is to farm titanforgeds its easier to do so on 30 man heroic EN and mythic EN anyway and just ignore ToV. In its current incarnation ToV is beyond unrewarding for the difficulty.

[Adlian]

After killing Helya HC today, i can place her right behind Cenarius M in terms of difficulty. Cant imagine how difficult she will be on Mythic.

[Rogalicus]

People simply need to L2P

You call overgearing the boss by 30 ilvls with BiS legendary 'learning to play'?