Patch 7.1.5 - Holy/Disc expectations

[Audio88]

I'm really surprised that everyone in this thread thinks Disc is a good spec. I haven't had much personal experience playing it myself, but a bad disc priest can easily ruin an M+ pug or a kara run, and everyone seems to think that this is where they do best in 5 man content. I don't trust the random pugger as disc priest anymore, and IMO it really doesn't have a place in PvE.

As for holy it desperately needs something. It really shouldn't be bottom on the heal charts and have zero utility. Feathers need to be baseline, and they need to introduce useful defensive tier in the talent tree.

[Deleted]

I'm really surprised that everyone in this thread thinks Disc is a good spec. I haven't had much personal experience playing it myself, but a bad disc priest can easily ruin an M+ pug or a kara run, and everyone seems to think that this is where they do best in 5 man content. I don't trust the random pugger as disc priest anymore, and IMO it really doesn't have a place in PvE.

As for holy it desperately needs something. It really shouldn't be bottom on the heal charts and have zero utility. Feathers need to be baseline, and they need to introduce useful defensive tier in the talent tree.

Disc in 5 Man doesn't work. He works well in raids with attonment stacking, but sucks in 5 man pugs. (with a lot of mastery you are basiclly screwed). Disc actually needs a huge rework in my opinion. Going grace and shadowmend everything is just super boring.

[Squishy Tia]

I feel that disc is in a great spot. Maybe they will nerf our dps a little more, but I don't think that it will be anything over the top. If it's anything like the current patch, they're just going to trim our dps since they don't want to ruin the spec. What does bring disc over the edge is the fact that they can utilize innervate better than any other healer. I feel like that's where they might get us, nerf innervate a bit, maybe even remove it or make it a personal cd for resto.

As for holy, our situation is just so bad right now. I don't think that we will get a sick utility buff, but I'd also be amazed if we didn't get something. I'm just hoping that they revert the changes to angelic feather and rework desperate prayer or focused will

If they nerf Disc DPS any further, everything outside of dungeons will feel insanely awful. And I find myself having to quest as Disc a lot because otherwise even with Sol I'm dying left and right because shadow has about five heals and poof, OOM. Shadow has AoE, but shit survivability. Disc has survivability, but shit DPS. If anything I'd love to see a doubling of our DPS, at least on either smite or penance (preferrably smite), but a halving of healing via atonement so that our questing is brought up to enjoyability but our atonement healing is unchanged.

[Iatros]

I'm really surprised that everyone in this thread thinks Disc is a good spec. I haven't had much personal experience playing it myself, but a bad disc priest can easily ruin an M+ pug or a kara run, and everyone seems to think that this is where they do best in 5 man content. I don't trust the random pugger as disc priest anymore, and IMO it really doesn't have a place in PvE.

As for holy it desperately needs something. It really shouldn't be bottom on the heal charts and have zero utility. Feathers need to be baseline, and they need to introduce useful defensive tier in the talent tree.

I think its quite the oposite, disc in a good spot. But its a setup healing, its awsome to heal predictable dmg, but terrible to deal with random dmg. While Holy u react better to unpredictable dmg. So i usually go Holy in pugs, and Disc on guild runs, because pugs dont interrupt, and stay in shit on the ground...the problem is not with the spec, its ppl not doing mechanics as they should...

[KaPe]

I've just leveled my Priest to 110 and did some Mythics tonight as Holy and I think the following things should be adressed:

- Light of T'uure - before I actually got the skill I thought it would be nice - it's not. It's pretty weak. The buff is nice but the healing itself is laughable.

The only good side of that spell is that it costs zero mana. The problem is that healing itself is worthless for such a long cooldown. Assuming you actually need the healing boost, chances are you must use stronger heals from the very start or your target dies.

The very least it could do is reduce Serenity cooldown and proc our other golden trait, to not feel like a waste of time.

[Nyel]

Maybe they could turn it into: Holy Word - Light of T'uure so that all the effects applied to Holy Words also apply to the spell but... that would be against the design choices of the artifact skills. It's a really bad artifact skill right now. Increase healing by 100%, let it proc 100% of its initial heal as our Mastery, take it of the CD or do something else with it, right now it's pretty bad.

[Deleted]

Disc in 5 Man doesn't work. He works well in raids with attonment stacking, but sucks in 5 man pugs. (with a lot of mastery you are basiclly screwed). Disc actually needs a huge rework in my opinion. Going grace and shadowmend everything is just super boring.

Disc is great in 5 man, you just need different gear for it. There are disc priests that cleared mythic 15 by now so saying it doesn't work is just outright silly.
The thing that makes disc stand out bad in pugs however is they rely on predicted damage. When dealing with pugs you get some crazy stuff sometimes which you couldn't predict, that is where we rely more on our team then "standard" healers.

[Deleted]

Disc is great in 5 man, you just need different gear for it. There are disc priests that cleared mythic 15 by now so saying it doesn't work is just outright silly.
The thing that makes disc stand out bad in pugs however is they rely on predicted damage. When dealing with pugs you get some crazy stuff sometimes which you couldn't predict, that is where we rely more on our team then "standard" healers.

What gear do you run in 5 mans? crit + haste with grace?

[Jimjam38]

For everyone calling for the removal of The Penitent and COW, I have to disagree sadly.

Both penitent and COW are extremely important in PvP because they offer strong directed healing while locked out of the shadow spell school. The ability to heal in two spell schools is, in my opinion, the only thing keeping disc viable in Arenas. And sadly I don't think they can be made into PvP talents - I'm not sure where I'd fit them in or what they'd replace, as I find the current PvP talent system already very good and I wouldn't want to have to choose between Penitent or CoW and the options in any of the current PvP talent tiers.
Penitent could probably go baseline, though I don't like what impressions that might give to those who can't let go of WoD-disc.
I think CoW is fine where it is tbh, I mean what else would they put there anyway? I don't really miss cascade, especially given that DS/Halo really aren't that strong anymore (better than wod, i think, but still really minimal value). I think CoW fits the tier - a single target and two kinds of AoE, gives us options to cover most situations. I think CoW also has potential in mythic+, given that DS/Halo don't offer much in the way of healing for 5mans, and the DPS is definitely negligible compared to an EHP increase that could potentially prevent a 1shot on higher end mythic+.


What I do want to see:
- A revision of the Disc DPS trinket nerfs, especially for AoE trinkets. I can see their reasoning and math behind the nerfs when compared to 'healing' trinkets, but both 'healing' trinkets and dps trinkets pale in comparison to mana trinkets at the moment, and I'm not sure this is specific to disc either. If dps trinkets were unnerfed, and healing trinkets buffed somewhat, then I think they'd both be viable alternatives to mana trinkets, but currently its just not an option.

- Shadow Covenant replacement. It's really gotta go. I don't know what they'd replace it with, but it's just encouraging bad gameplay as it is.

- Solace replacement. Honestly, it's a throwback to the first iteration of the 'new' talent system when they introduced it in mop. It doesn't fit anymore because disc is so GCD starved, and the talent doesn't offer anything except a slightly stronger smite on a cooldown that we have to try to fit into our extremely tight gameplay sequence. Even if it's mana return was significantly better, it will still be jarring to make use of. The other two talents in this tier are good because they offer benefits without clutter by improving existing abilities, so solace or its replacement needs to do the same. I think a good alternative to solace would be a Surge of Light talent that gives free smite procs, perhaps with a small damage buff.

- Schism rework. I like the talent, but for the same reasons as solace, it becomes too much clutter at higher end gameplay, and is too mana heavy for raids. It needs a revision, probably by extending its duration so it's less clunky and adjusting it's debuff value accordingly to keep it in-line.

What I'm suspecting we could see:
There were two things we saw disappear during the Legion alpha/beta. One was the disc artifact passive which was supposed to cause shadow spells to proc holy buffs and holy spells to proc shadow buss (almost all of the early build artifact passives were replaced with active ones by the beta), and the other was a cooldown ability which I think was called Pontifex, which refreshed our current atonements. From the 'lore' in our artifact knowledge research, it seems like they ended up largely moving away from that 'balance of shadow and light' theme that they first announced for disc in legion, towards a more "strength of will" control, 'discipline' kind of theme for the spec - the artifact lore frequently talks about how hard lights wrath is to control without causing it to explode and kill everything. Given that, I don't think we're likely to see anything like that original artifact passive, but I wouldn't rule out something akin to Pontifex

Now, I'm aware of how broken such an ability would be in the current state of disc, and the PvP talent Archangel has this effect now anyway, but given how much blizz love to recycle their ideas, I think we could see something like this, on a roughly 1min ±30sec cooldown that increases active atonement duration by 5seconds or something like that.

Lastly, I'd really really like to have Holy Nova, just for dealing with packs of imps in world quests. Please.

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Disc is great in 5 man, you just need different gear for it. There are disc priests that cleared mythic 15 by now so saying it doesn't work is just outright silly.
The thing that makes disc stand out bad in pugs however is they rely on predicted damage. When dealing with pugs you get some crazy stuff sometimes which you couldn't predict, that is where we rely more on our team then "standard" healers.

This argument is really flawed. In 5mans, as disc there's no reason to not have atonement on all 5 people almost the entire time you're in combat. You don't need to predict it, just have atonement on them all the time. And for random spike damage from standing in bad, Shadowmend is better than flash heal and Twist of Fate is better than benediction, and for AoE Barrier is better than Divine Hymn, especially at higher mythic+ where barrier can prevent 1shots, where as hymn can't.

[Beir]

Give us feather baseline and make the talent do the same thing that Stampeding Roar does. That is a powerful raid CD that isn't found in many spec at the moment and it would be great utility.

[Scrysis]

Give us feather baseline and make the talent do the same thing that Stampeding Roar does. That is a powerful raid CD that isn't found in many spec at the moment and it would be great utility.

Then feather would be on a 3 min cooldown, and I wouldn't be able to use it for myself. I'm squishy enough as it is. . . . I really like having the ability to use feathers for myself.

[Deleted]

All I want to have back is Silence

[Helelos]

Removing a feature of a spell and making it a talent was pointless. Healing penance should be baseline.

[Grimbolt]

Making focused will a personal CD rather than having no active DR would make my day. Especially for mythic+s and raid damage spikes...

HPS wise I think we are doing decently.

[Supliftz]

Removing a feature of a spell and making it a talent was pointless. Healing penance should be baseline.

I'd rather they not make a noob trap baseline.

[Tavin]

Not sure what it would be, but would like to see some change to the lackluster Plea (yes I get that it's pretty much only as an instant atonement applier).

As long as masochism is on the same row as angelic feather and body and soul, giving disc a movement spell as baseline is a no go.
Some changes/buff/nerf to the 15, 60 and 100 talents would be sweet as well


For Holy, there are a lot of "meh" talents and artifact points to guardian spirit and spirit of redemption that could use some love.

As there are a lot of artifact points (3 or 4) and 1 talent for prayer of mending, it would be amazing if that spell wasn't so bad that it's barely worth using.

[luma]

As there are a lot of artifact points (3 or 4) and 1 talent for prayer of mending, it would be amazing if that spell wasn't so bad that it's barely worth using.

Are you not using PoM on cd? The only issue with PoM is that it should be an instant spell.

[ttylol]

Disc dreams~

• Grace's effect gets added to (and scales with) mastery
• New Grace: permanent Atonement on one target and increases Atonement healing they receive
• Plea removed and mechanics merged into PW:S (aka spammable shields but increasing costs per Atonement, interesting decision and fixes lackluster/clunky buttons)
• Mind Sear in place of Schism
• Rapture moved to talent so it can finally increase throughput too (in place of Shield Discipline)
• Clarity of Will replaces Shadow Mend when selected (tuned accordingly ofc, mostly to fix pvp interrupt shenanigans)
• Renew returns as talent (in place of Purge the Wicked) and replaces PW:S when selected (mostly to top off people between pulls in speedruns, my biggest pet peeve with Disc lol)

[ehxy]

Questing as a disc priest is a pita. 20% damage buff pls

[Unspunreality]

Questing as a disc priest is a pita. 20% damage buff pls

But you never die!!!!

I hate it too. I especially hate doing like the stupid falcosaur WQs. Every.. 22s? I can aoe them! Otherwise Im tabbing and instanting everything and hoping the warrior doesnt two shot 8 of them before I can tag 1. Id kill for a 1 damage aoe just so I can tag stuff. Literally make it dealnegative damage even just let me aoe tag stuff faster than ever 20-40 seconds.