Trials of Vailor HC firemage experience

[Deleted]

Check WC logs:

Only 1-2 Mages in Top 500 DPS of Odyn Hero
Rarely a Mage in Top 100 DPS of Guarm (only with BiS Legis a chance to climb up the ladder)

Enough said?

[stevenho]

Target switching is a loss for fire due to ignite building. That's why fire is shit on Cenarius as well.
Odyn HC is simple enough to just tunnel without switching. There are classes who either gain dps nuking spread adds or do not lose anything from switching, and on heroic they can kill the adds off without mages help.
How it is on mythic, we will see in 3 days.

[Deleted]

Target switching is a loss for fire due to ignite building. That's why fire is shit on Cenarius as well.
Odyn HC is simple enough to just tunnel without switching. There are classes who either gain dps nuking spread adds or do not lose anything from switching, and on heroic they can kill the adds off without mages help.
How it is on mythic, we will see in 3 days.

Target switching is a minor dps loss, only lose a few ticks worth of damage which isn't too major if you aren't in combust phase.
Sure, fire isn't top of the pack in everything anymore, and that's good. That's why we have 3 dps specs Happy we're not in the bottom tier yet.

[Deleted]

Check WC logs:

Only 1-2 Mages in Top 500 DPS of Odyn Hero
Rarely a Mage in Top 100 DPS of Guarm (only with BiS Legis a chance to climb up the ladder)

Enough said?

Just this. Nothing more yo say. Mages, all specs. Discussion ends.
In Helya 41 hunters, 27 spriest and 19 fire mages in top 100... Sad.

[schizocaria]

Target switching is a minor dps loss, only lose a few ticks worth of damage which isn't too major if you aren't in combust phase.
Sure, fire isn't top of the pack in everything anymore, and that's good. That's why we have 3 dps specs Happy we're not in the bottom tier yet.

I liked how you indicated "yet". I think fire mages will be seeing a large balance hit in 7.1.5. Mostly downhill.

Hearing about upcoming nerf to the legendary bracers AND upcoming changes to secondary stats just sounds like huge nerfs to fire. I don't see how they can de-value crit or any secondary stats to make intellect more valuable without it appearing to be hurting fire's overall DPS. We value crit because of our core abilities/traits/talents. I also don't know how they can justify the legendary bracer changes WITH the previous pyroblast reduction in an earlier patch.

I guess we have to wait and see until the patch notes are release.

[Toas]

I don't see how they can de-value crit or any secondary stats to make intellect more valuable without it appearing to be hurting fire's overall DPS. We value crit because of our core abilities/traits/talents.

Well, no, more specifically fire values crit highly because that's what simcraft says is the best stat in terms of dps per point. To change that, all you'd have to do is change the damage formulas. It isn't some kind of impossible task. It would be totally possible to make a fire mage have only, say, 10% (even 0%) crit and do the exact same dps as they currently do.

Just imagine if all of our spells had a 10,000% SP coefficient. It wouldn't matter at all how much you crit then because all of your spells would do loads of damage. Obviously this is just an extreme example to showcase the point.

[Deleted]

Well, no, more specifically fire values crit highly because that's what simcraft says is the best stat in terms of dps per point. To change that, all you'd have to do is change the damage formulas. It isn't some kind of impossible task. It would be totally possible to make a fire mage have only, say, 10% (even 0%) crit and do the exact same dps as they currently do.

Just imagine if all of our spells had a 10,000% SP coefficient. It wouldn't matter at all how much you crit then because all of your spells would do loads of damage. Obviously this is just an extreme example to showcase the point.

Finding that spot is much harder to find that you might think. Not to speak that it also waters down fire's flavor.

[Deleted]

Havn't looked at intracacies of ignite but as long as ignite doesnt spread target switching doesn't matter. I could understand you'd want to build a strong ignite if it could spread (and im not sure if if have 2 ads and switch target how both ignites interact).

So as said shouldn't matter on odyn fight. And i'm okey with odyn being bad for fire mages. It's a clear shadowpriest and wreck havoc type battle.
Second boss kind of sucks to be mediocre as well. Last boss were strong, but it's hard to get the most out of it because of quite a bit of movement for me atm.

The only thing is it feels were weaker at st than it originally seemed and not sure were consistantly strong on aoe enough. the extreme living bomb like karazhan early trash is a bit of niche.
The fun part though if it's not too chaotic for helya it's a fight where living bomb can matter a lot compared to it not mattering at ill gonoth.
I'd have to look at our fellow aoe compettitors, I thought firemages were more jack of all trades and nto master at one so we did well on dmg either through a niche (living bomb, cheesing ignite spread) or because all elements are pressent in a boss fight.

Ironicly in our guild an unholy DK seems to most consistantly top the charts on most fights.

[Dangus]

Mages have now had all spell damage increase by 50% because some kid complained about not getting top 5 dps on 3 completely different fights.

[Deleted]

I liked how you indicated "yet". I think fire mages will be seeing a large balance hit in 7.1.5. Mostly downhill.

Hearing about upcoming nerf to the legendary bracers AND upcoming changes to secondary stats just sounds like huge nerfs to fire. I don't see how they can de-value crit or any secondary stats to make intellect more valuable without it appearing to be hurting fire's overall DPS. We value crit because of our core abilities/traits/talents. I also don't know how they can justify the legendary bracer changes WITH the previous pyroblast reduction in an earlier patch.

I guess we have to wait and see until the patch notes are release.

They will probs revert the pyro nerf since they are nerfing the lege bracers.

[mrgreenthump]

Hearing about upcoming nerf to the legendary bracers AND upcoming changes to secondary stats just sounds like huge nerfs to fire. I don't see how they can de-value crit or any secondary stats to make intellect more valuable without it appearing to be hurting fire's overall DPS. We value crit because of our core abilities/traits/talents. I also don't know how they can justify the legendary bracer changes WITH the previous pyroblast reduction in an earlier patch.

I guess we have to wait and see until the patch notes are release.

Simple and dirty fix for legendary bracers would be nerf pyro by another 5% and add a 15% multiplier back to hotstreak.

And for Crit getting devalued.. remove Critical mass and add more base crit.

[Deleted]

Simple and dirty fix for legendary bracers would be nerf pyro by another 5% and add a 15% multiplier back to hotstreak.

And for Crit getting devalued.. remove Critical mass and add more base crit.

Or just buff our filler spell. Yeah, I know, that isn't much fun but neither is relying on rng and 1 freaking cooldown, to do decent damage.

I don't know. It seems impossible, considering everything a fire mage does, revolves around crit.

[texhex]

H. Odyn

Phase 1: Focus on the mini boss you are assigned to but throw some pyroblast procs to the other one as well so you can have ignite running on both, small damage increase and not necessarily needed.

Casting some pyros on the other one wont give you any bonus damage. Back then, when pyro applied an addional pyro dot, that did not stack, target switching for pyro gave you a small dps increase (some sort of multidotting)

But now with ignite it doesnt matter anymore cause ignite stacks (new ignite gets added to old value)

means 2 pyros on same target would deal the same amount of ignite damage than casting 2 pyros on 2 different targets. you would basically just split up the ignite damage from one mob to two without any damage increase.


and yes target switching is bad for fire, when mobs are not stacked compared to other classes. The point is we lose dps when we have more adds spreaded out, because when the mobs die a small amount of ignite is lost. Other classes benefit from it cause of multidotting. its the sum of both that makes fire look bad. others do better while we at the same time lose dps

[Atherius]

The reason behind mages not doing as much dps on Odyn is for me a combination of several factors:
Switching to adds in p1 and p2. Getting spears/blades during RoP. Moving with debuff in p3 without ice floes. Moving to soak Shield of Light if low on melee.

Planning when to use RoP/combust during p2 is crucial because of the spears. But there's simply too much movement and switching for fire to do max dps. You need to be either extremely good or really lucky to not do lose dps to things I listed.

[Deleted]

The reason behind mages not doing as much dps on Odyn is for me a combination of several factors:
Switching to adds in p1 and p2. Getting spears/blades during RoP. Moving with debuff in p3 without ice floes. Moving to soak Shield of Light if low on melee.

Planning when to use RoP/combust during p2 is crucial because of the spears. But there's simply too much movement and switching for fire to do max dps. You need to be either extremely good or really lucky to not do lose dps to things I listed.

Mate, we would be doing just as badly, or potentially even worse if it was a static DPS-check kinda fight. In case you missed it, we're actually one of the most mobile classes. The reason we're not doing that well compared to other classes, is because other classes just do more damage. Simple.

Rogues, Shamans, Paladins, Warlocks, Shadow Priests, Warriors, Druids and Demon Hunters all have higher damage output potential. A fair bit higher, actually.

Now, I don't mind yet. I'm still doing decently; between 350 and 380k damage on most fights, while every other class in the guild has passed the 400k mark already. But I fear the discrepancy will become exponentially bigger if the devs don't intervene soon.

[Atherius]

Mate, we would be doing just as badly, or potentially even worse if it was a static DPS-check kinda fight. In case you missed it, we're actually one of the most mobile classes. The reason we're not doing that well compared to other classes, is because other classes just do more damage. Simple.

Rogues, Shamans, Paladins, Warlocks, Shadow Priests, Warriors, Druids and Demon Hunters all have higher damage output potential. A fair bit higher, actually.

Now, I don't mind yet. I'm still doing decently; between 350 and 380k damage on most fights, while every other class in the guild has passed the 400k mark already. But I fear the discrepancy will become exponentially bigger if the devs don't intervene soon.

I have the legendary bracers, so I guess my view on ST dps is a bit skewed. Got 450k dps on last ursoc HC kill, so it's still good compared to other classes (872 ilvl)
I'm simply saying that the adds alone isn't the only reason we do low dps. Having to move when RoP is casted is a huge dps loss, and it's more than likely that it will happen during p2 or p3. Ice Floes does nothing when the whole area of the rune is covered with shit..

[gallamann]

Mate, we would be doing just as badly, or potentially even worse if it was a static DPS-check kinda fight. In case you missed it, we're actually one of the most mobile classes. The reason we're not doing that well compared to other classes, is because other classes just do more damage. Simple.

Rogues, Shamans, Paladins, Warlocks, Shadow Priests, Warriors, Druids and Demon Hunters all have higher damage output potential. A fair bit higher, actually.

Now, I don't mind yet. I'm still doing decently; between 350 and 380k damage on most fights, while every other class in the guild has passed the 400k mark already. But I fear the discrepancy will become exponentially bigger if the devs don't intervene soon.

Fire and tw ring and belt are my legendaries

I see this consistently in my raid, can breach top 5 when I play flawless and tunnel (which mean ignore all mechanics I shouldn't). Rogue, DH, Shaman, two hunters, two druids (one feral/one balance) almost always above me as Fire. Always will be #1 as initial combust finishes, but after that it is simply "death due to attrition" for your DPS.

My ballpark guess is fire sustained damage needs ~50k more DPS just to allow us a chance to compete for top 5 consistently. Without a cooldown our sustained damage is PATHETIC, fuck my 103 ret paladin does more damage with a judgement that a non crit fireball w/o a cooldown.

Then to read that Dev's are singling out Fire and Crit as something they want to "fix" for 7.1.5.... all I see is we are fucked because w/o crit our DPS is absolute garbage outside of Combustion.