[7.2] Legion Shadow Priest Guide and Discussion

[Vained]

Does the new mind flay cleaving thingie also means that we are going to kiss mind spike goodbye ?

I can't see how they can keep both.

As if anyone played mind spike before. :P

[Ilfayt]

Does the new mind flay cleaving thingie also means that we are going to kiss mind spike goodbye ?

I can't see how they can keep both.

Maybe Mind Spike will 'pulse' one Tick of SW:P per cast? Would make it workable as far as that interaction, but Mind Spike itself still needs something to make it match the other 2 on it's tier.

[Naga Coatl]

I also don't like how VB now will just extend dot duration by 3 seconds - sure it's aoe and it will be better for clumped aoe, but when there are spread targets it will mean that it will even more difficult to keep the dots rolling. Dots will be decaying slowly if we alternate VB between targets I suppose... Was it really necessary?

[Deleted]

As if anyone played mind spike before. :P

Technically it's better than LOTV right now, so ...

[Djriff]

Technically it's better than LOTV right now, so ...

Only on pure ST, otherwise it's trash.

[Vained]

Technically it's better than LOTV right now, so ...

Even considering tendril bros?

[davesignal]

LotV needs to suck compared to STM because STM's "risk" of dying demands that it be significantly better than any alternative, but since STM can't be allowed to perpetually do more damage than any other spec in the game it just ends up meaning that anything on the same row as STM needs to suck compared to other specs as well as STM. If STM didn't do significantly more damage than the other talents in its row, then dying to it wouldn't feel "worth it".

If this is true then there's an inherent, unfixable problem with the talent on a conceptual level, because the "risk" of dying is very low for anyone who passes a certain threshold of skill, but anyone below that level (or, who for other reasons-- lag, RSI, other factors) is stuck with a broken class that is balanced around an unusable talent.

It also means the spec is shit on any situation where you can't Surrender.

But if S2M is only moderately ahead, then it's fine. Why? Because high end raiders will still use it. If S2M was 3% better than LOTV-- and I'm not saying it should be-- then they'd still use it. That's why they're high end raiders: they will chase every iota of damage, no matter how odious or asinine the requirements.

[hugplx]

These changes aren't final. I very much doubt Mind Spike will stay as is. They seem to be angling for a play style change with our aoe, and Mind Spike clashes with that.

[davesignal]

Or they'll just tack "Whenever you Mind Spike a target with Shadow Word: Pain on it, your Shadow Word: Pain deals damage to all nearby targets." on to the end of Mind Spike and call it a day.

[Maues]

As far as I can tell SWD insanity generation isn't changed with RoS, so the nerf to StM actually impacts SWD. Is this not a big nerf with all the increased drain, and wouldn't it make RoS still mandatory for StM?

I get how the new Lingering might be good for LotV but I can hardly see why you would ever use it for StM. So basically the way I see it, unless the lingering insanity loss is enough to bring StM on a similar level to LotV(which I kind of doubt), StM will still be the default choice and we will use the same talents.

Is this the case or am I missing something?

[davesignal]

Well, on Xavius, you could hit 100 stacks on your first S2M and have 50 seconds of Lingering Insanity afterwards. :V

[Quttan]

But if S2M is only moderately ahead, then it's fine. Why? Because high end raiders will still use it. If S2M was 3% better than LOTV-- and I'm not saying it should be-- then they'd still use it. That's why they're high end raiders: they will chase every iota of damage, no matter how odious or asinine the requirements.

All of that is entirely true, but from what I've seen I just don't think that kind of thinking is in line with Blizzard's design philosophy. Like you said, "If S2M was 3% better than LOTV-- and I'm not saying it should be-- then they'd still use it.". I don't think Blizzard would say it should be like that either. And if that possibility is off the table, then STM really does have an inherent, unfixable problem on a conceptual level.

[Darth-Piekus]

Will S2M still be able to hit 100 stacks or will it be too stressful to reach them? Also will the dot spread tick also produce insanity?

[Djriff]

Will S2M still be able to hit 100 stacks or will it be too stressful to reach them? Also will the dot spread tick also produce insanity?

It will be more difficult, but still doable (I think).

As for dot spread, with the tier bonus, it'll give insanity off of dot ticks of SW: P, the Mind Flay tick is a separate type of damage.

[Darth-Piekus]

Also I heard that VT damage will also be spread but I dont know from which spell. Is it Mind Flay again? What's also with the Lingering Insanity? I thought the Haste from Voidform was kept outside of Voidform for 1 minute and only ended once you entered Voidform.

[Djriff]

Also I heard that VT damage will also be spread but I dont know from which spell. Is it Mind Flay again? What's also with the Lingering Insanity? I thought the Haste from Voidform was kept outside of Voidform for 1 minute and only ended once you entered Voidform.

It appears to be a trait (replacing the mind sear one). Lingering insanity was changed to a talent, replacing void lord.

[Quttan]

Also I heard that VT damage will also be spread but I dont know from which spell. Is it Mind Flay again? What's also with the Lingering Insanity? I thought the Haste from Voidform was kept outside of Voidform for 1 minute and only ended once you entered Voidform.

Lingering Insanity was removed as a baseline ability, nerfed, and turned into a talent.

You know, it's kind of funny. After they talked so much about taking talents that were perpetually the best choice in their tier and making them baseline, the total number of talents they made baseline for shadow in the first PTR build was negative one. Although, I guess 'funny' isn't really the right word.

[RsinRC]

Great changes overall for LotV and for our AoE. AoE playstyle will be slightly smoother. Void Bolt change is pretty kool tbh. You will be able to keep dots up the entire duration of your VF for the most part. Shadow Crash will hit fucking crazy hard.

[Apero]

The new voidbolt only extending dots for 3s is totally annyoing as your dots tend to fall of during torrent or dispersion ..

[RsinRC]

The new voidbolt only extending dots for 3s is totally annyoing as your dots tend to fall of during torrent or dispersion ..

Make sure your dots are at or near their full duration. Best advice I can give with the new changes.

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Damn I just realized Void Lord didnt become baseline... That SUCKS