So blizzard is saying that fire is very strong and basing class balance on mythic+

[Vorrum]

Sooo ... we finally got a fire-version of ice barrier (FUCK YEA)

Some other more or less interesting talent changes

But our RoP-row is mostly unchanged? RoP got a 20% nerf but the other 2 options still suck. No compensation for the damage loss on RoP from what I've seen so it's pretty much a pretty hefty damage nerf to us... am I getting this totally wrong?


A talent for movespeed on Scorch seems ... weird ... we already have an Artifact trait for that and outside of the legendary girdle ...




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Guess I'm hyped for fire barrier and very disappointed at the (lack of substantial) changes to our damage-talent row (RoP etc)

Oh and on top of the still only viable damage talent (RoP), Combustion got a hefty nerf.

Oh and Fireblast as well. Down to 1 charge (w/o once again mandatory talent)

Were we really that OP in damage? Here's hoping for some upcoming buffs to compensate for fucking our burst damage.

All they did was recycle molten armor and mix it with ice barrier, it was nothing major; they were lazy honestly recycling mage armor and ice armor for arcane and frost respectively.

- - - Updated - - -

On a related note I'd drop fire as it was going to be out-paced by gear anyways - but now with the frost and arcane buffs there's no reason not to get ready for the upcoming patch. Frost with glacial spike build is something interesting when coupled with mastery and some crit, and it just received a notable buff in spell power.

And arcane is arcane, its been close to fire in performance and shall likely go beyond fire with the buffs to overpowered and other tweaks to the spec. Lets also note that now there isn't a convoluted rotation even fire mages can play arcane.

[Bloodmagix]

Bad and good feelings from the upcoming changes for me. But I will always stick with Fire until the day I die and my embers return to the Earth.

[Ellsian]

Yeesh, the damage nerfs from changes to ROP, Combustion and Flame On.... RIP Fire mages.

[shadycharacter1]

using the bracer proc will be a dps loss now, no?

also made super useless without ice floes, good luck casting that shit in dungeons or heavy movement fights in raids

[mrgreenthump]

using the bracer proc will be a dps loss now, no?

With 200%, yes I think so. It's very close though, because at the same time it lets you recharge your Fire Blast CD to keep the ball rolling.

[shadycharacter1]

With 200%, yes I think so. It's very close though, because at the same time it lets you recharge your Fire Blast CD to keep the ball rolling.

if they're not removing the hardcast requirement, that item is done for

[Elboba]

Oh and Fireblast as well. Down to 1 charge (w/o once again mandatory talent)

It stays at 2, cooldown reduced and charge increased to 3 with talent.

basically a go to talent, since 20% proc isnt super reliable in a burst phase, and you take neither of them if you have lego helm.

[Svisalith]

Is blizzard really going to base the overall dps toolkit to fire on mythic + dungeons and raids in a equal manner and ignore the fact that fire is lacking single target dps without the right legendary?

^Exact same situation for some other specs so for the time being.. yes

The ST is not the end of the world with it not being completely awful & with 4/5'ths of PVE content being AOE or cleave.

[Vandalheart]

On a related note I'd drop fire as it was going to be out-paced by gear anyways - but now with the frost and arcane buffs there's no reason not to get ready for the upcoming patch. Frost with glacial spike build is something interesting when coupled with mastery and some crit, and it just received a notable buff in spell power.

The glacial spike build probably wont pull ahead of TV, as the current changes show frostbolt going from 210% to 195% while ice lance is getting buffed by like a third. GS looks like it will remain a pvp talent for now.

[Wondercrab]

It's not that they're basing class balance on mythic+, just that mythic+ is now a relevant part of the game to take into account when balancing. Previously the only high-end PvE content was raiding, but in Legion that's no longer the case. They need to take the broader picture into account and be careful not to buff something that's already really good in one area of the game in such a way that it becomes overpowered, and vice versa with nerfs. If you have, say, a lowish middle of the pack spec in raiding that's top tier for mythic+, then buffing it to make it more powerful in raiding would be a very ill-advised move, since it would upset the balance of mythic+ too significantly.

I don't know exactly where Mages lie on the overall balance spectrum myself, but that's the general philosophy.

[Windirmere]

So, what artifact should I work on now? Frost?

[stevenho]

The ST is not the end of the world with it not being completely awful

It is completely awful.

[klaps_05]

What i dont understand is, if m+ is the focus, why are they pushing us into braindead flamestrike spam instead of ignite/living bomb management? fire still kind of has a high skill cap, but they are really closing the gap. managing short cds like fireblast, flame on, living bomb, combust, db, etc. is what makes the class great to play.

[Svisalith]

It is completely awful.

It's not above average but it's not in the bottom 4 classes either according to WCL - boss damage only for mythic. Sure that's inflated by 24% of players having the wrist but every other class is inflated too; DH is in the exact same situation with the ring.

[Deleted]

Go look at the class changes. Rune of power and your inability to stay within the diameter of it are the least of our concerns

I made that post before the changes were posted. I made another (quick) one after they were posted.

I'm happy RoP didn't become baseline and it's obvious that they aren't at all done with the changes.

[Skylarking]

So, what artifact should I work on now? Frost?

Arcane as well, keep em neck and neck. Cant disregard arcanes insane scaling.

[Deleted]

All they did was recycle molten armor and mix it with ice barrier, it was nothing major; they were lazy honestly recycling mage armor and ice armor for arcane and frost respectively.

So what? I'm just happy that I will no longer have to run around with a bubble of ice around my flaming master of fire.

[Deleted]

I don't know exactly where Mages lie on the overall balance spectrum myself, but that's the general philosophy.

Wondering where mage lie in soloing capabilities Ever since mages had to give up their position of the clear top dpsers in vanilla we've become one of the weakest soloers.
Now the belo'vir helps but that doesnt help with lvling. and maybe that new shield talent.

The inbalance with solo has been their for too long and the difference is too large.
I want difficult solo content but not because my class is so much weaker at it than tanks.