Why the inferiority complex about Mage?

[Deleted]

The optimal Sunwell raid was 2 tanks, 5 Resto Shaman, 3 Shadow Priests, 3 wildcard classes to pick up all the unique stackable buffs, and 12 Warlocks. A lot of classes got sat in Sunwell.

wrong! it was actually 12 bm hunters coz bm back then was beyond OP, sure locks were OP as well but not close to the degree of bm hunters which on average could pull 5-10% more dps than locks.

[Wunderland]

wrong! it was actually 12 bm hunters coz bm back then was beyond OP, sure locks were OP as well but not close to the degree of bm hunters which on average could pull 5-10% more dps than locks.

As a BM hunter for a SWP guild, this is what I remember. One button macro wins. But it was also terribly boring, and that hunter hasn't been touched since!

[Xequecal]

wrong! it was actually 12 bm hunters coz bm back then was beyond OP, sure locks were OP as well but not close to the degree of bm hunters which on average could pull 5-10% more dps than locks.

Wrong. Warlocks had insane stacking synergy due to Improved Shadow Bolt, every additional Warlock you brought improved the DPS of every other Warlock in the raid. 1 BM Hunter would beat 1 Warlock but 10 Warlocks would easily beat 10 Hunters.

[Deleted]

Wrong. Warlocks had insane stacking synergy due to Improved Shadow Bolt, every additional Warlock you brought improved the DPS of every other Warlock in the raid. 1 BM Hunter would beat 1 Warlock but 10 Warlocks would easily beat 10 Hunters.

Nearly 10 years later and people still argue about sunwell dps.

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In low level mythics Shadow doesn't stand a chance but in high level ones where stuff isn't just instantly deleted Shadow isn't as bad as people think.

Considering he refers to shadow as a "worthy competitor" when the spec beats the absolute piss out of all mage specs combined in every encounter available, I'd say his view can be safely disregarded.

[BiggestNoob]

> Fire is on the very strong side, so they nerfed it a little bit. It is still a little strong, but there is no way to get it exactly in line with the other specs.

Celestalon in 2016. Just imagine this idiot doing any other job.

Meanwhile PvP devs are like "oh yeah Fire is shit" and buff it by 10%.

[CuchuCachu]

Do the mages here not realize that Affliction has one Legendary that absolutely blows its dps really high? Without it you're not good

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Why do people have a problem with a pure dps class toping meters?

Because other pure dps classes dont seem to get that treatment anywhere near as consistently

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No pure dps class does though. One spec is always good and a top choice.

Warlocks would disagree.

[roahn the warlock]

Because I invested a ton into fire and now with all the nerfs Frost is by far the top spec. Exactly what they said they planned to avoid.

[Alvito]

Do the mages here not realize that Affliction has one Legendary that absolutely blows its dps really high? Without it you're not good

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Because other pure dps classes dont seem to get that treatment anywhere near as consistently

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Warlocks would disagree.

Plenty of bad ones would or ones that want to only play one spec for everything. The start or Legion was rough for them to be fair. They are far from being bad across the board though.

[teddabear]

This class is overcrowded more than ever in this xpack?
Culprit? Beta.
Fire was seriously overpowered until the very late phases of beta, people watched tons of streams with mages running in BiS legendaries, pre-nerf ciritcal mass, 24/7 flasks and pre-pot + pot in every dungeon - so they jumped on the bandwagon.

To every other class crying about mages I suggest you try seek those players out and ask them how they feel about fire now (if they are still playing ).

What is seriously overpowered at this moment in the content that matters is a shadow priest - that's where the nerfs should go.

Not really there were other specs that were massively overpowered in Beta and lost players.

Here is your reason for Fire nerfs - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=15&dataset=90

The reason for so many Mages is it's very rare that Mages don't have 2 extremely good specs at any given time.

[mrgreenthump]

Here is your reason for Fire nerfs - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=15&dataset=90
.

Most high ranking mages in Mythic+ have the Medivh trinket, which is absolutely broken for a Fire Mage. That is inflating the class by at least 10% in cleave situations. This is pretty evident when you switch the dataset to 50%, and you see Fire Mage instantly drop to high-mid tier dps and way bottom on lowest precentile.

[aesthir]

Not really there were other specs that were massively overpowered in Beta and lost players.

Here is your reason for Fire nerfs - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=15&dataset=90

The reason for so many Mages is it's very rare that Mages don't have 2 extremely good specs at any given time.

Yea, because so many people have done +15's.....

Look at the same graph for +10's, still think fire is OP?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=10&dataset=90
Frost and arcane seem to be doing great there as well, L M A O

[Deleted]

Fire is just supreme for mythic +, on demand burst cleave for trash packs in insane. Frost has really good 2 target cleave but 3 or more they just drop so hard.

[Zenny]

Do the mages here not realize that Affliction has one Legendary that absolutely blows its dps really high? Without it you're not good

Yeah, it's not like Fire mages have OP bracers or anything.

Warlocks would disagree.

Demonology.

[Makorus]

Because I invested a ton into fire and now with all the nerfs Frost is by far the top spec. Exactly what they said they planned to avoid.

So what, the other specs should be shit for the rest of the expansion?

[teddabear]

Most high ranking mages in Mythic+ have the Medivh trinket, which is absolutely broken for a Fire Mage. That is inflating the class by at least 10% in cleave situations. This is pretty evident when you switch the dataset to 50%, and you see Fire Mage instantly drop to high-mid tier dps and way bottom on lowest precentile.

Never said I approved of the way Blizzard balances the game, if you could even call it that. This is one of the worst expansions ever for balance, not just in numbers but especially the insane methodology.

[Deleted]

So what, the other specs should be shit for the rest of the expansion?

Your solution is to make fire the objectively worst spec in the game?

[Armourboy]

The idea that mages have always been good kind of makes me laugh. I mean lets think about it. It's solely a DPS class, meaning all 3 specs are based on DPS. What this means is that at any given time Blizzard has 3 shots to get at least one mage spec to be solid. Compared to hybrids who often just have one, in some cases two ( although often completely different in terms of style and gameplay) shots at it. Generally when you look at the DPS pures they tend to have had better success at staying near the top over the years, and that is part of the reason why, Blizzard just has more stabs at it.

This is my first expansion ever to main a pure DPS class, so trust me when I say I have been on the front lines over the years on the whole " hybrid tax" argument. However even for me, the idea that a DPS CLASS is better bet over the long haul when it comes to viability on average, makes logical sense. It should be that way, they can't exactly hop over to healing or tanking to be viable.

[ambident]

It should be that way, they can't exactly hop over to healing or tanking to be viable.

Oh right, I forgot that hybrid dps can arbitrarily switch roles in a raid...

"Guys, hybrid dps aren't great for this fight, so we'll just run 4 tanks and 8 healers"

[Armourboy]

Oh right, I forgot that hybrid dps can arbitrarily switch roles in a raid...

"Guys, hybrid dps aren't great for this fight, so we'll just run 4 tanks and 8 healers"

Yeah because every single hybrid is going to be bad at the same time on the exact same fight. You can switch roles, now whether you are willing too is another matter. Either way you have more than one way to be viable, if a DPS class does bad DPS they are shit out of luck. Trust me, I've done it more than once over the last 12 years.

[Nadiru]

Fire is passable in all three DPS categories, is engaging without being obnoxiously difficult to play, has the flashiest visuals of any caster class, and has no wonky downside a la Surrender To Madness. Fire Mages are absurdly well designed and playing other casters really hammers home how much devs phoned it in for other specs.