Are all of the 7.1.5 class changes complaints justified?

[Putin-Chan]

PTR is PTR. Changes happen. Or did you think this was in the game already?

The "PTR is PTR" attitude is how Legion launched with a 40% difference between the top and bottom spec.

[Zequill]

If people are complaining about number, then no. Blizzard had enough time to fix the number to what they want it to be and with the PVP template/talent, PVE change affecting PVP is no longuer an issue. Pretty sure everyone is where they want them to be, either because they want X to be in top (S2M have no reason to kill you if you don't top people with egual gear, they want fire mage on top of other mage for "reasons" etc.), they are looking at balance at other gear level or the just don't care about Y.

Even more, this patch is about gameplay/stat weight first(dps is not gameplay), they will have enough time during and after the ptr to redo the number so there is no reason to complain about your dps rank with those changes (lol at fire mage thinking to will drop from the top 3 dps, like this will ever happen)

If people complain about having no change right now, I'm already suprise about what they are doing in this patch, just hope they won't ignore you before the PTR is due to release.

If people complain about the gameplay change for gameplay reason, they might be right. It rare that they change the gameplay twice during a patch. They have their new vision and they stick to hit way longuer then a ptr and they won't hotfix it. You will have to life with it until 7.2.5+

[Jayman29]

Who is "We" ?

You and 2 dozen other angry forum poster who think they should be the ultimate class/spec?

I have 3 real life friends who main hunter, no complaints from them, 1 of the most common classes, etc...

you just a salty elitist.

Actually if you have access to the battle.net forums you would find a now 100+ page post called "Let's Talk part2" meaning there was a part 1. But that aside you will find the "2 dozen" angry forum posters and the feedback they gave. 2 dozen is 24 and that post has 2000 replies. JUST in part 2 is 2000. That means you believe 24 ppl echo chambered for 2000+ posts. That is what I am supposed to pull from your statement. I wish I was one of the few people that posted close to 100 times in the Let's Talk.

On real topic, the class feels clunky and they did nothing fix that.

[Lucetia]

Who is "We" ?

You and 2 dozen other angry forum poster who think they should be the ultimate class/spec?

I have 3 real life friends who main hunter, no complaints from them, 1 of the most common classes, etc...

you just a salty elitist.

Out of curiosity, which specs do they play (not trying to belittle or anything)? I know some have complained that Beast Mastery is rather dull (2 button play basically with procs). The survival complaint is because of a lot of didn't want a melee hunter so we are pigeonholed into BM if you want range and a pet. Granted those are other things and more about the spec.

Actually if you have access to the battle.net forums you would find a now 100+ page post called "Let's Talk part2" meaning there was a part 1. But that aside you will find the "2 dozen" angry forum posters and the feedback they gave. 2 dozen is 24 and that post has 2000 replies. JUST in part 2 is 2000. That means you believe 24 ppl echo chambered for 2000+ posts. That is what I am supposed to pull from your statement. I wish I was one of the few people that posted close to 100 times in the Let's Talk.

On real topic, the class feels clunky and they did nothing fix that.

Just because something has 2000 posts, doesn't necessarily mean it can't be <24 people talking. (Not saying that is the case, but just showing that post counts don't mean anything when trying to quantify if there are X number of people)

[Darknessvamp]

Here's an easy example by which you can gauge the justifiable nature of the complaints. Look at the initial suggested Hunter changes. Compare BM changes and MM changes. Notice that BM only has an ability description tweaked and like MM has got back two traps. Notice that all the other MM notes are basically nerfs. Understand in the current state of the game MM performs better than BM, quite significantly better in some situations mostly due to vulnerable and the ability to control their focus amounts which BM lost. BM feedback suggestions were given to improve the class and bring it up to a state where it could be on par with MM. Instead Blizzard decides it's easier to just nerf the spec hard and take BM feedback and tie it into a rare drop. The Mantle of Command

[Wingspan]

We had the same stooges saying "Don't worry, its only alpha/beta/not-max-level/not-heroic-geared/not-raid-geared" and turns out we're still a dogshit class.

I think you hit on something here in that 95% of this situation should have been fixed before beta was over.

Regardless of the outcome, they simply should not NEED to make this many changes this far into the expansion... it should generally be minor tweaks to offset a few unexpected issues at this point, so I can sort of understand the rage.

[Veyne]

Mechanically, the Shadow Priest changes sound great to me on paper. From the sounds of things on the priest forums, though, the numbers ain't there. We'll see.

[Polarthief]

People can voice their opinion, but the sky is falling isn't needed.

Except those awful boomkin shoulders existing. Sets a bad precedent for Balance

[Nico3337]

Well the current changes will Nerf fire mages dps by around 30%, and since the specc is already mediocre at single target, the specc is dead if this goes live..

[Lucetia]

Except those awful boomkin shoulders existing. Sets a bad precedent for Balance

The moonfire hits another target? Yeah, they are, but I don't think the legendaries are finalized or correct on some. Some are showing talent only options and stuff. So waiting to see what they roll out with all the talent / spell updates first. Though if they were going that route on the shoulders, should've made it like Sunfire and just increased their radius by 5 yards (hate having to 2-3 sunfires a group because not all were in range)

[Jayman29]

Just because something has 2000 posts, doesn't necessarily mean it can't be <24 people talking. (Not saying that is the case, but just showing that post counts don't mean anything when trying to quantify if there are X number of people)

Well we can assume it is over 4000+ because that is part 2. But since lets go and check each new person then see if its the same account with different hunters. If we find 24 or less. I will give up my point asap.

[Lucetia]

Well the current changes will Nerf fire mages dps by around 30%, and since the specc is already mediocre at single target, the specc is dead if this goes live..

By about 30%? Really? Do you have some hard numbers to back this up? Perhaps logs and such from PTR showing this is the case. Or are we going strictly by what the datamine shows?

[effs]

While some changes are really questionable. It's the first iteration. Of course you have to also look at it from the other side and see how the little changes were made during beta. Time will tell

[Lucetia]

Well we can assume it is over 4000+ because that is part 2. But since lets go and check each new person then see if its the same account with different hunters. If we find 24 or less. I will give up my point asap.

Haha, wasn't saying you had to do that. I was just showing that in some way the person you quoted could be right because 2000 posts (even 4000) doesn't necessarily mean it can't be 24 people complaining only.

[Regalbeast]

I canceled my sub because I was hoping they fixed Ele sham and made Hunters great again. So far it seems like that hasn't really happened....I'll come back to the game if it actually does happen in the future but for now...peace out!

[Lucetia]

While some changes are really questionable. It's the first iteration. Of course you have to also look at it from the other side and see how the little changes were made during beta. Time will tell

Eh, beta went through a lot of changes. Heck even the legendaries went through a big revamp (and one of the things people are complaining about in this patch).

[Jayman29]

Haha, wasn't saying you had to do that. I was just showing that in some way the person you quoted could be right because 2000 posts (even 4000) doesn't necessarily mean it can't be 24 people complaining only.

The real question is, even if it was 24 people just 24. He is comparing his 3 friends....a just as tiny group. Saying "They say it is fine so it is fine".

then turns around and says "24 people are just bitches and don't know because 3 people said it is good"

[ssviolett]

By about 30%? Really? Do you have some hard numbers to back this up? Perhaps logs and such from PTR showing this is the case. Or are we going strictly by what the datamine shows?

Really. Was tested by several people on PTR...

[Deleted]

Anyone who still thinks things are going to drastically change between now and the release of the patch has not been paying attention the last few expansions. 95% of these changes are set in stone, they'll roll back a few of the biggest nerfs and maybe change a few numbers around, but what you see here is what you are going to get.

[Lucetia]

The real question is, even if it was 24 people just 24. He is comparing his 3 friends....a just as tiny group. Saying "They say it is fine so it is fine".

then turns around and says "24 people are just bitches and don't know because 3 people said it is good"

That's true too. Though now part of me is curious if it is 24 people on the forums posting all disguised behind alts and alt accounts lol. Granted there isn't much point and would just feed into the "vocal minority does a lot of complaining" type deals.

Really. Was tested by several people on PTR...

Ok? That's why I said do you have some numbers to back this up and such? Just saying people tested it tells nobody anything. Secondly, if you want to complain then go on yourself and do some testing. (Also, testing on practice dummies doesn't really say anything at all about a spec and how it performs).