7.1.5 for Rogues

[Deleted]

Sadly i dont think they will work because the shoulders give dmg in and after stealth while shadowdance only allows u to use abilitys that u need to be stealthed with

[testing123]

keeping the spirit of RtB

just roll a die 6
6 different buffs, balance them

if you need 33% energy regen or cooldown reduction by 1.2 seconds per combo point, they can balance them

SnD could be 20% of each of the 6 buffs ~ 120% of RtB. In that way
it makes up for not having MfD, balancing out in purely single target fights.

In multi-target fights, RtB and MfD take more skill and they can reap the benefits.

[Aethys256]

Can we get a pool together so someone can play ptr and see if shoulders work with shadown dance I'm willing to provide real money or gold for confirmation. Lege shoulders that is

If they works with 100% crit (which is unlikely), it's 2 times better than pre-nerf sub boots. So I doubt it will =)

[Xanatu]

Are the full changes posted anywhere right now? I thought MMOC had em up last night but I can't seem to find them.

[Spiridon]

Notes are not final, but if they are final, i just stop play rogue as main after 11 years. Frustration level of rng highest of all times, nerfs to specs that not op anywhere etc. I dont like assa gameplay concept at all, so no chance i will up it. One "must go" spec is fail and unacceptable. Look to bomb aoe - its ridiculous almost absurd damage. When it procs on pack you win with doing nothing, if not you cant do anything. A a bad rng design like RtB. Other mechanic not fun for me, its fun when it competitive in some cases, but not when its dominating with no other options.

[Deleted]

Notes are not final, but if they are final, i just stop play rogue as main after 11 years. Frustration level of rng highest of all times, nerfs to specs that not op anywhere etc. I dont like assa gameplay concept at all, so no chance i will up it. One "must go" spec is fail and unacceptable. Look to bomb aoe - its ridiculous almost absurd damage. When it procs on pack you win with doing nothing, if not you cant do anything. A a bad rng design like RtB. Other mechanic not fun for me, its fun when it competitive in some cases, but not when its dominating with no other options.

I know ptr is not final or anything, but i understand this sentiment entirely,

As someone who didnt get legendary ring or boots ( both +\- +10%) my sub dps is shit compared to others. And then they nurf sub boots and flippin buff the aledy strong outlaw legendary? I mean, the devs seem so disconnected from our issues its disheartening.

I mean theres the sewer shit, the fugly sub weapon skin, utter radiosilence while they first nerf and then buff outlaw (after everyone swapped n lvled a dif. Artifact) .. And thats on top of the retardee notion that a utility legendary can ever compete with a damage increasing legendary. These ppl just have no clue, i mean how hhard can it be to have a seperate dev that plays the flipping class drop by on class forums now and then to communicate some shit they are talking about.

All they ever say is ' trust us' .. For me atleast thats no longer enough as i feel theyve done little to earn that trust.

[Raiid]

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with anything, but the Outlaw bracers were buffed I believe, because the BTE cooldown is no longer reduced by True Bearing, so it will be used much less often.

[Geehbee]

So I put about 5 hours into the PTR today just to get a feel for the nerfs/changes etc.

On paper I hated everything about this patch, biggest of all is the 5% crit nerf for sin as I now feel Empowered Eye of Command is a must have.

Anyways, all the nerfs etc have been gone over somewhat already so I'll stick to what I've noticed.

1) MP/AP is STRONG. Going from 20% poison application on AP to 30% didn't sound like anything special to me... it buffed the hell out of Kingsbane damage as the more you apply the more damage it does... I was getting 750k ticks and it accounted anywhere between 11-14% of my overall damage on my parse.

2) Vigor with Normalized damage Rupture is very strong. The main problem with Vigor before was that Deeper strat's 6 point vanish ruptures were strong as hell... but most people were running EP so every other finisher was usually a 4-5pt envenom. Taking Vigor and doing a 5 point rupture isn't as punishing anymore (a 5 point rupture on PTR does around 12% more damage then a 5CP rupture on live).

3) Vigor also makes your Vendetta stronger, as it adds 50 max points of energy refilled.

4) EP is easier to run with Vigor, but the 3% dmg nerf to it really hurt, MP definetly parsed stronger, at least with 130 mastery and 40% crit.

5) Anticipation is still boring, but prevents CP loss.

End result so far is the 5% crit nerf sucks, but my actual parse's are showing no major dmg loss. After feeling it out I'm not near as annoyed now as I was last night.. but I was already playing AP, which feels way stronger then Exsang now.

Now on to Outlaw, The 15% energy regen on SND and increased PS and Blunder dmg is actually super nice, again i thought it was all shit but actually trying it out for awhile, there is no way ill be touching RTB again if SND changes stay the same. This is one you don't need simcraft for, just try it out. you are constantly near capped for energy, I can maintain 300-320 over 10 minutes on dummies live with RTB(no potions bloodlust etc). On PTR with SND im 350-370, multiple parses.

Other people may have different results, this is just what I experienced so far, and I despise Blizz and their garbage balancing... but gotta say it doesn't feel horrible.

[Wow]

1) MP/AP is STRONG. Going from 20% poison application on AP to 30% didn't sound like anything special to me... it buffed the hell out of Kingsbane damage as the more you apply the more damage it does... I was getting 750k ticks and it accounted anywhere between 11-14% of my overall damage on my parse.

I'm sure the 10% was helpful but it's probably more likely taking mp and the fact it buffs kingsbane 30% is where you are seeing the main difference.

[Geehbee]

My parses and sims with MP have always maxed out at 9% for my total kingsbane damage, with it usually being between 7-9%. Gotta remember going from 20% to 30% is a 50% increase in actual procs.

[scarfdeath]

MP was already pretty darn close to EP.

EP normally have a 80% uptime if not less. thats the same to say that EP gives +- 15 * 0,8 = 12% dmg.

and MP buff your AP by 20% ( with is the same as giving your AP a "six" stack) , in my case each stacks give me 7.6% dmg. so the diffence from EP to MP was 4,4% dmg not taking in acccount the 30% more poison bomb damage and KB with make it even closer.

now with the nerf to 12%

12 * 0.8 - 9.6% the difference is only 2% more dmg at 80% uptime.

more KB dmg and more poison bomb will make it for this 2% easily.

also the more mastery you have smaller the gap became .

[Strah]

They do reply to hunters and ignore us (and DH for that matter).

Typical.

[Geehbee]

MP was already pretty darn close to EP.

EP normally have a 80% uptime if not less. thats the same to say that EP gives +- 15 * 0,8 = 12% dmg.

and MP buff your AP by 20% ( with is the same as giving your AP a "six" stack) , in my case each stacks give me 7.6% dmg. so the diffence from EP to MP was 4,4% dmg not taking in acccount the 30% more poison bomb damage and KB with make it even closer.

now with the nerf to 12%

12 * 0.8 - 9.6% the difference is only 2% more dmg at 80% uptime.

more KB dmg and more poison bomb will make it for this 2% easily.

also the more mastery you have smaller the gap became .

You also gain a greater benefit from Surge of Toxins with MP.

[Tenjen]

Cant really base any live performance judgement on the list.

These are just for testing and seeing performance numbers wise to have data for future adjustments and changes. Blizzard hasnt included their real changes, talent shifts/inclusions or actual numbers. Stuff being raised or lowered is no indication of intended direction.

Its just the first step in the process leading to the real stuff.

[Eazy]

Are the full changes posted anywhere right now? I thought MMOC had em up last night but I can't seem to find them.

I also can't see anything. I think that we have to wait for full patch notes from Blizz.

[Aeon-]

Cant really base any live performance judgement on the list.

These are just for testing and seeing performance numbers wise to have data for future adjustments and changes. Blizzard hasnt included their real changes, talent shifts/inclusions or actual numbers. Stuff being raised or lowered is no indication of intended direction.

Its just the first step in the process leading to the real stuff.

Though it does seem like a very odd place to start the first steps causing a lot of controversy within the community. It seems there are many more logical places to start, but likely they have their reasons, hopefully those reasons make sense! Some communication and explanation on where they are starting and what they want to achieve would be good, you know, talking to your customers

[Illumy]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post43306382

On the Front Page under "Spell Changes".

[Tenjen]

Though it does seem like a very odd place to start the first steps causing a lot of controversy within the community. It seems there are many more logical places to start, but likely they have their reasons, hopefully those reasons make sense! Some communication and explanation on where they are starting and what they want to achieve would be good, you know, talking to your customers

Its because avoiding "controversy" is not their priority, adapting their internal testing process around that only to hinder what the process is actually designed to do is ludicrous. It never has been. And no there aren't more logical places to start. We are looking from the outside in without context. They have already provided us with what context they can but loads of us still make wild assumptions.

This is something WE yanked out before they could say anything.They have communicated this process to us again and again and again over a decade. We have seen it happen over and over during that time. Y

They repeated the same line again today. Its not their fault people are too volatile and stupid to listen and easily forget an extremely repeated process that has gone on for 12 years now.

They already told us what they intend to do, what they want to achieve with 7 1 5. But in no world are they going to go further to share each and every step of the internal process. You think people are going nuts now? wait till every technical shift is revealed, people take it all out of context no matter what. Thats no proper way to do this.

This is the logical way of going about it. You get a good feel for the numbers by shifting them around a few times before settling and testing another phase of changes, then shift the numbers again and put in another phase of changes. rinse repeat till you're satisfied. You need a wide array of data by increasing and decreasing values (and vice versa) to see how things perform before settling and moving on with more changes. This allows you to better understand the effect of your new inclusions on previous values and to better alter the values with the new change.

[tehmark]

I play priest and rogue. One of the things I liked about the initial legion communication was that they weren't going to drastically change specs anymore and balancing wasn't going to be a priority. If a class was better at something, to a certain extent they wouldn't care. Well, shadow priests are on the way to a major rework so I guess that whole thing is out the window. I can totally understand why people are upset.

[elfporn]

Has anyone had a chance to do a side-by-side comparison for sub (live/ptr)?

Just a 4 or 5minute set of iterations to get a better idea than "it's a 10% loss"