Dear Blizzard Developers: (Destruction)

[Deathhowwl]

First and foremost please keep this calm and straight to the point for Blizzard Developers

Thank you for attempting to fix and adjust Warlock specs, I have been playing WoW since vanilla and warlock since Cata, but right now you are making me consider main swapping and lose faith in the dev team.

You promised us baseline talents?
-Why we have not gotten burning rush or shadow fury or demonic circle is beyond me
-Changes or possible nerf to Sacrifice? warlocks are not broken so why change this????
-The Changes to Backdraft is weird but is a direct nerf to how we operate it with Eradication, BUT we can live with it, this now means ST we go roaring blaze which was almost on par with old backdraft
!!!!!-Putting Reverse Entropy and Eradication on the same Talent line, you are effectively killing destro ST dps by at least a 5-10 % mark (and its already average). Destro is already middle pack ST yet you nerf us. Now we are pigeon hold to play 2 specs Demo ST and Destro Cleave.
- Btw without Reverse Entropy, your getting increased chaos bolt cast times and need to life tap now, it is NOT worth using empowered life tap, maybe if RE was baseline it would make for more fun choice with eradication and empowered life tap.

-At the end of the day - Reverse Entropy will always be our go to because its a double elimination of heavy cast time and life tapping and not to mention it will eventually make backdraft somewhat useless for upcoming nighthold tier bonus chaos bolt cast times to function better with RE baseline, Roaring blaze, Eradication, Shadow Harvest on ST fights. this allows us to be 80-90 % of what demo can do. PLEASE LISTEN TO WARLOCK COMMUNITY

[blackops2008]

wait, destro is in middle pack st? what are u smoking?

[Dnusha]

I would like to have an opportunity to play with 5.0/6.0 shadowburn as an execute. It was stated pre legion that Shadowburn will get better usability and that gameplay it provides will remain, now it looks like it's about to become Conflagrate on steroids. I do mind this change very much. I've enjoyed shadowburn spam for a long time and it's a big part of the spec for me (best part of it) and probably for a lot of other people as well. And while i understand that in your opinion only some classes or specs should have an execute ability to feel special i do belive that destruction in one of these specs.

[Scathbais]

Dear Deathhowl: These are datamined patchnotes. Blues said more changes are coming. Please be patient. We will have plenty of time to complain to deaf ears once the ptr is up. We can also uselessly complain once it become a release candidate. Finally, we will have ample time to vent and rage once the changes go live!

[Deleted]

Omygod it's the first set of changes before several weeks of PTR testing and adjustments.
Let's just act as it's definitive evolutions and get mad about it !!!

[Grizelda]

It's the first set of changes and this is the first set of discussions.

It's probably true that these discussions will have NO impact on what actually happens but let people vent.

[Deleted]

The best thing to do : Go play the PTR and give Blizzard constructive (but loud) feedback on what you dislike.

[Deleted]

Dear Deathhowl: These are datamined patchnotes. Blues said more changes are coming. Please be patient. We will have plenty of time to complain to deaf ears once the ptr is up. We can also uselessly complain once it become a release candidate. Finally, we will have ample time to vent and rage once the changes go live!

Well said
10chars

[Deleted]

Omygod it's the first set of changes before several weeks of PTR testing and adjustments.
Let's just act as it's definitive evolutions and get mad about it !!!

Have you followed World of Warcraft at all these last few expansions? These changes are new to us, but they are close to Blizzard's final iteration. They'll maybe change a few numbers around, but this is pretty much what you are going to get.

[Dnusha]

Dear Deathhowl: These are datamined patchnotes. Blues said more changes are coming. Please be patient. We will have plenty of time to complain to deaf ears once the ptr is up. We can also uselessly complain once it become a release candidate. Finally, we will have ample time to vent and rage once the changes go live!

yeah yeah...go tell that to devs that ignored class problems since early legion beta. Apparently revamp of all the classes it too much for class team.

[Kayarra]

Omygod it's the first set of changes before several weeks of PTR testing and adjustments.
Let's just act as it's definitive evolutions and get mad about it !!!

This may be true, however I was one of the people who advocated "This is only the PTR, there is no way this will go live as it is right now" for the past 3 PTRs, and I was proven wrong each time. I have very little faith that 7.1.5 will be much better for us than the PTR currently is. I hope to god I'm wrong.

[Deleted]

All of the changes seem to be balanced around the tier set.
2-piece speeds up the 2nd chaos bolt
4-piece gives another conflag charge and reduces recharge time.

Effectively, RE plus 2-piece would bring the 2nd chaos bolt to below GCD, so once you have it, you would probably take Eradication instead. Not sure about this mana tap 2.0; 10 seconds sound cumbersome but haven't tested it. Together with the community's wish to be more versatile in ST vs. AOE, this change actually makes sense.

Backdraft also HAD to change because of the 4-piece bonus. With an additional charge and lower recharge time, the uptime of backdraft would have skyrocketed, making it much better than RB which the set bonus was actually tailored towards. In addition, the 2-piece cast speed bonus would have meant that - admittedly with a bit of shard proc luck - you could have fit 3 chaos bolt into 5 second window, making it even stronger.

I'm not sure yet about the Demonfire change. On the one hand, it is a great burst AOE, which we didn't have before. On the other hand, I'm not sure how it compares to Wreck Havoc with the bracer leggy. There still is a bit of ramp if you take it:
1) Havoc, --> 1.5 sec
2) immolate (still required, right?) --> 1.5 sec
3) demonfire
with no ability to precast like the mage/hunter, but definitely better than it is now. Anyone know if Demonfire counts as fire dmg every bolt or just as 1 cast for the belt leggy?

Overall, it will probably put us in the same position as we are right now: Middle-of-the-pack single target, Insane Cleave, Good sustained AOE.

Quality of Life is still suffering, though.
- Long cast times are always very punishing in movement encounters and combined with long travel time of the spell to the target is VERY frustrating to see 2 shards hit the dead target
- Noone in progress PvE or even higher m+ will ever sacrifice the insane dmg reduction from Demon Armor, thus we're stuck without movement speed increase. HIGHLY frustrating in m+ dungeons.

If I could wish for improvements it would be:
1) Make Burning Rush baseline, replace the talent with another defensive. Possibly something like the old "Take no damage for x seconds and then get 50% of that over a couple of seconds"
2) Give us a baseline interrupt, ideally the same way it used to be (Either pet or "command demon" from sacrificed pet)
3) Lower the CD of Cataclysm. It's frustrating to only have it every 2nd pack in m+, especially with the new Demonfire that (I think) still requires immolates. 30 seconds should be OK. Dmg can be lowered to accomodate ST and sustained AOE use.

[Tramzh]

Our single target is god awful, and the new changes doesn't do anything to help. We are far from "middle of the pack".
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...2&difficulty=4
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...853&dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...876&dataset=95

Doesn't look very average to me. Our sustained cleave damage is the only thing that we got going for us currently, and even then we get completely smashed by shadow priests.

Let's see what the new changes brings us:
- Worse AoE because no FnB + Cataclysm, Wreak Havoc is still too strong to justify picking Demonfire. GoSac nerfed (?)
- No more RE + Eradication, the idea now is that we pick Eradication and Soul Harvest for single target, I'm not convinced.
- Shadowburn talent still seems completely useless
- STILL no interrupt without using certain pets, shadowfury is the only fucking stun in the game with a cast time.
- Terrible mobility and bad choices in the talent tree. We shouldn't need to pick between our only possible CC except fear and our portal, Burning Rush and Dark Pact/Demon Skin. Whatever you pick feels like a lose/lose. Mages have a talent that improves their baseline blink, we either have a portal or we don't.

The class/spec is just awful in general and they didn't manage to bring ANYTHING to change that. This is possibly the worst iteration of warlock/destruction ever, I'm impressed how bad it is honestly.

[Tya]

What I'd really like to know is why Blizzard continually get destro into a fun state over the course of an expansion, before completely trashing it just in time for the next expansion so that the cycle can repeat again.

[Deleted]

Nobody ever played with FnB and Cata, so who cares.
The RE / Eradication on same row issue, I have already explained above: Set Bonus adjustment
Shadowburn is meh, but who cares, there are other good talents in that row anyway
Interrupt, I agree is one of the big drawbacks
Mobility is a tricky one. I would not want to give up survivability for in-fight mobility, but out-of-fight mobility would be a nice QoL improvement.

Again, from own experience, I don't feel like I'm unusably bad. And I'm realistic enough that I wouldn't be able to play top 10 anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

Our single target is god awful, and the new changes doesn't do anything to help. We are far from "middle of the pack".
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...2&difficulty=4
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...853&dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...876&dataset=95

These logs always seem suspect to me. As an example: Why is "Dmg to boss" statistic on Nythendra different to Player Damage:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=95&bracket=18
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

It's a single target fight, no adds. And no possible adds either: Boss is only attackable after all trash in the room is dead and next room/corridor is closed off.

[blamecanada]

All of the changes seem to be balanced around the tier set.
2-piece speeds up the 2nd chaos bolt
4-piece gives another conflag charge and reduces recharge time.

This man gets it. Blizzard is making drastic changes now rather than later. They will see what works and what doesn't work with tier in place.

[Shoeboots]

Our single target is god awful, and the new changes doesn't do anything to help. We are far from "middle of the pack".
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...2&difficulty=4
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...853&dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...876&dataset=95

Doesn't look very average to me. Our sustained cleave damage is the only thing that we got going for us currently, and even then we get completely smashed by shadow priests.

Let's see what the new changes brings us:
- Worse AoE because no FnB + Cataclysm, Wreak Havoc is still too strong to justify picking Demonfire. GoSac nerfed (?)
- No more RE + Eradication, the idea now is that we pick Eradication and Soul Harvest for single target, I'm not convinced.
- Shadowburn talent still seems completely useless
- STILL no interrupt without using certain pets, shadowfury is the only fucking stun in the game with a cast time.
- Terrible mobility and bad choices in the talent tree. We shouldn't need to pick between our only possible CC except fear and our portal, Burning Rush and Dark Pact/Demon Skin. Whatever you pick feels like a lose/lose. Mages have a talent that improves their baseline blink, we either have a portal or we don't.

The class/spec is just awful in general and they didn't manage to bring ANYTHING to change that. This is possibly the worst iteration of warlock/destruction ever, I'm impressed how bad it is honestly.

FYI: When you cherry pick three fights you actually deconstruct your own argument.

[Justpassing]

ITT: We pretend Blizzard developers are our bitches.

Well good luck with that.

[Deleted]

The changes aren't that bad and if you think our AoE will be bad yoi need to learn to read.

I prefer the new backdraft from a mechanical point of view. And having ST talents and AoE ones on different rows makes us more versatile. I'm looking forward to more changes and will embrace and adapt to it as always.

And forbthe love of god please stop speaking about NUMBERS when no tuning pass has been done. In reality nothing much has been done. I understand complaints on talents, but numbers? Please guys.

[Pokeypenguin]

FYI: When you cherry pick three fights you actually deconstruct your own argument.

...Those are the single target fights...