Thread: Civilization VI

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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Were you then able to add further envoys and overtake China?
    Honestly I don't remember. It was toward the end of the game so I may not have tried. I'll see if I can find an auto save for it and try.

  2. #462
    Almost won on Emperor. Came down to space race between me and USA and I was 8 turns away from building the last part before USA beat me to it.

    Pretty big step up in difficulty from King to Emperor. The AI just has insane advantages, at least early on.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by FobManX View Post
    Pretty big step up in difficulty from King to Emperor. The AI just has insane advantages, at least early on.
    Thats (again) my biggest flaw with the game. The AI is stupid as always and does not pose a threat at all on equal footing. They again provide it with massive advantages to keep them in game, especially early on. Which again ends with them totally dominating early game until you have overcome their initial boost.

  4. #464
    Warchief Nazrark's Avatar
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    Turn 9 I meet China. Turn 10 Surprise War and he has 11 warriors. Like holy shit I know how this game is going to turn out.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrark View Post
    Turn 9 I meet China. Turn 10 Surprise War and he has 11 warriors. Like holy shit I know how this game is going to turn out.
    Yeah its pretty absurd how the AI will declare war so quickly sometimes. My general rule of thumb is to have one ranged unit per city with 1-2 floating melee units. Thats generally enough to keep them at bay since they won't have siege units early on and archers just destroy melee units.

  6. #466
    the old version was more interesting

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Faldric View Post
    Thats (again) my biggest flaw with the game. The AI is stupid as always and does not pose a threat at all on equal footing. They again provide it with massive advantages to keep them in game, especially early on. Which again ends with them totally dominating early game until you have overcome their initial boost.
    Fully agree. Granting massive advantage to the AI to create an illusion of challenge is a very lazy design. They didn't even try to code a smarter AI. See list of difficulty bonus here:

    http://civ6.gamepedia.com/Game_difficulty

    Production bonus is +20% per difficulty above prince! Deity AI production bonus is +80%! It almost builds everything with half the time you need.

    Early game is basically playing catch-up with AI.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    Fully agree. Granting massive advantage to the AI to create an illusion of challenge is a very lazy design. They didn't even try to code a smarter AI. See list of difficulty bonus here:

    http://civ6.gamepedia.com/Game_difficulty

    Production bonus is +20% per difficulty above prince! Deity AI production bonus is +80%! It almost builds everything with half the time you need.

    Early game is basically playing catch-up with AI.
    The worst part is that this kind of difficulty just makes the early game completely bland by robbing it of multiple strategies. Forget building wonders because you will be outraced anyway. Rush neighbour right away or forget aggression because their army will be unstoppable a few rounds later. It all comes down to building up until your better decision making makes up for their initial boost. From then on, you again don't notice a difference between difficulities.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    Fully agree. Granting massive advantage to the AI to create an illusion of challenge is a very lazy design. They didn't even try to code a smarter AI. See list of difficulty bonus here:

    http://civ6.gamepedia.com/Game_difficulty

    Production bonus is +20% per difficulty above prince! Deity AI production bonus is +80%! It almost builds everything with half the time you need.

    Early game is basically playing catch-up with AI.
    The worst part is... there is this bug that gives you that production bonus as player too

    Only on Immortal and Deity - making Emperor hardest difficulty right now.
    On immortal and Deity it is to easy, you can chop yourself to victory (literally)
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  10. #470
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    Started a new game last night, had nothing better to do. Neighbor Rome declared war on me about 20 turns in after having pretty good relations up until then, I still don't understand why the AI does this. So tired of this was I, that I decided to kick his ass for a change. Completely conquered his society. Japan was surprisingly happy with this turn of events. America was pissed...but then got happy again once Rome was out of the picture (bipolar much Teddy?) Then America goes bipolar on my ass again after several more turns of good relations (seriously AI, what is up with being "friends" or even "allies" with a nation when they just out of the blue dump you and declate war?) so I go to war with America, world gets a little more pissed at me but there's only two more empires on my continent so who cares! I'm still allied with Japan (this is oddly surprising), Harold hates me, don't care his empire is tiny. The worst part of all this is, I'm winning like crazy with this strategy. Fuck diplomacy, conquer the world! Diplomacy really has no use when your friends waffle like John Kerry.

    Sooooo, declaring war on like, turn 10? Is this supposed to increase the fun or something? Because Zerg rushes annoy the fuck out of me.
    What's with the bipolar nations? I can literally do the exact same thing I've been doing and other nations will consistently flip-flop on me. Even ones that I have great standing with, alliances or significant trade deals. One minute it's HEY BUDDY! Then it's DIE FOUL BEAST! At least Civ 5 was consistent, you make friends, you be peaceful, you keep your people happy and the vast majority of nations, even warmongering ones, will generally stay friendly.
    Does the AI not get a warmongering penalty? Because frankly it seems like the AI doesn't give a shit that anyone but me is running around waging war.
    City States are annoying as hell for empire building. Can I get an "off" switch?
    Is there any consistency on when I can make new zones? Because it seems like the game changes its mind on me, early on a city with moderate population (8) can build 3-4 zones, later though, cities with 13+ are stuck on only one or two zones. Is there a key I'm missing here?
    Units don't "awake" when enemies get close, only when attacked, there's no "guard" function like in Civ 5, HUGE disappointment there.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Started a new game last night, had nothing better to do. Neighbor Rome declared war on me about 20 turns in after having pretty good relations up until then, I still don't understand why the AI does this. So tired of this was I, that I decided to kick his ass for a change. Completely conquered his society. Japan was surprisingly happy with this turn of events. America was pissed...but then got happy again once Rome was out of the picture (bipolar much Teddy?) Then America goes bipolar on my ass again after several more turns of good relations (seriously AI, what is up with being "friends" or even "allies" with a nation when they just out of the blue dump you and declate war?) so I go to war with America, world gets a little more pissed at me but there's only two more empires on my continent so who cares! I'm still allied with Japan (this is oddly surprising), Harold hates me, don't care his empire is tiny. The worst part of all this is, I'm winning like crazy with this strategy. Fuck diplomacy, conquer the world! Diplomacy really has no use when your friends waffle like John Kerry.

    Sooooo, declaring war on like, turn 10? Is this supposed to increase the fun or something? Because Zerg rushes annoy the fuck out of me.
    What's with the bipolar nations? I can literally do the exact same thing I've been doing and other nations will consistently flip-flop on me. Even ones that I have great standing with, alliances or significant trade deals. One minute it's HEY BUDDY! Then it's DIE FOUL BEAST! At least Civ 5 was consistent, you make friends, you be peaceful, you keep your people happy and the vast majority of nations, even warmongering ones, will generally stay friendly.
    Does the AI not get a warmongering penalty? Because frankly it seems like the AI doesn't give a shit that anyone but me is running around waging war.
    City States are annoying as hell for empire building. Can I get an "off" switch?
    Is there any consistency on when I can make new zones? Because it seems like the game changes its mind on me, early on a city with moderate population (8) can build 3-4 zones, later though, cities with 13+ are stuck on only one or two zones. Is there a key I'm missing here?
    Units don't "awake" when enemies get close, only when attacked, there's no "guard" function like in Civ 5, HUGE disappointment there.
    At the moment you can only properly play diplomacy.. if you go into the game files, grab a note pad, and write down a whole lot of stuff. Then keep track of it during the game.

    The way it works is if you click on that relation bar thingy and you see all the -5 -3 +8 etc values ye?
    This is not a fixed value, it are actually per turn modifiers that get applied to the bar. And some penalties are pretty hefty and stay for more turns then others, making it near impossible to properly track. That is why they seem bipolar as you said - but you can make friends/alliances if you know the inner workings (which is no excuse, there should be an in game way of tracking this!)

    There are a lot of modifiers, but the main thing to know is that gifts/positive trade value trades stay for 10 turns. So you gotta remember when you send something, resend 10 turns afterwards and rinse repeat the rest of the game... fun eh?

    That said, if they have a conflicting agenda with yours, expect them to consistantly try to wipe you out, even if you try to buddy up, the negative value/turn is to large to overcome even with consistant gifting, better wipe them out before they become a problem

    PARTICULARY China and Brazil. If you steal a wonder/great person from them respectively, expect a "DIE SCUM" soon afterwards. Fuck them.

    There are no bugs with zones (as far as I noticed) - some can only be build on certain terrain/next to rivers etc, and some do not count towards zone/population cap. (I believe holy is one of them, but google is your friend)

    There is, unfortunatly only a fortify stance, agreed.

    Edit:

    I should also add, there is NO warmonger penalty on diplomacy values in the first "era" - so do your wars early, it will avoid pissed off civs later on
    Last edited by falagar112; 2016-11-16 at 10:47 PM.
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  12. #472
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    Acropolis can only be built on hills. That one threw me off. Winning a defensive war should not make everyone hate you. The AI behaviour is very questionable as well.

  13. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    At the moment you can only properly play diplomacy.. if you go into the game files, grab a note pad, and write down a whole lot of stuff. Then keep track of it during the game.

    The way it works is if you click on that relation bar thingy and you see all the -5 -3 +8 etc values ye?
    This is not a fixed value, it are actually per turn modifiers that get applied to the bar. And some penalties are pretty hefty and stay for more turns then others, making it near impossible to properly track. That is why they seem bipolar as you said - but you can make friends/alliances if you know the inner workings (which is no excuse, there should be an in game way of tracking this!)

    There are a lot of modifiers, but the main thing to know is that gifts/positive trade value trades stay for 10 turns. So you gotta remember when you send something, resend 10 turns afterwards and rinse repeat the rest of the game... fun eh?
    What bugs me though is that in the early eras, everyone can send delegations, which is cool because even unfriendly civs seem to accept this as "tribute". But then in the later years sending a delegation gets replaced by embassies and shit, which even friendly civs with laugh at. (It seems Cleo and Peter are specially picky with their friends! They would regularly ask me to be friends....and then decline my attempts to befriend them!) I wish that you could keep doing delegations basically forever and that embassies were a matter of friend-level, not development age.

    Frankly, I think I'm just going to go global domination on everyone in the future. It's ridiculously easy.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    What bugs me though is that in the early eras, everyone can send delegations, which is cool because even unfriendly civs seem to accept this as "tribute". But then in the later years sending a delegation gets replaced by embassies and shit, which even friendly civs with laugh at. (It seems Cleo and Peter are specially picky with their friends! They would regularly ask me to be friends....and then decline my attempts to befriend them!) I wish that you could keep doing delegations basically forever and that embassies were a matter of friend-level, not development age.

    Frankly, I think I'm just going to go global domination on everyone in the future. It's ridiculously easy.
    The main issue (to me) is that the diplomacy penalty of going against their agenda, is not something you can overcome - you can kiss their ass quite literally whole game, they will still go from : "hey buddy", to "die, scum".

    And since you can only see one agenda until spies, this makes it a complete guessing game. At the moment if they go from ally to declaring war, it is quite simple, you either 1. are a warmonger, including defensive wars (bug), or 2. went against their agenda in the past 10 turns, so think what you did what pissed them off....

    The issue becomes more apparent when there are multiple civs with base agenda conflicting each other. Cleo likes you having a strong military, other civ wants you to have a weak army. Rome wants you to city sprawl, other civ will hate you for being big. Either way, you are FORCED into picking your friends and enemies from the get go, and define your whole strategy around their agenda, instead of your own. That is just broken and not how it should work, period.

    This is why Peter (and China, and Brazil...) are insta kill targets if I meet them in my game. Peter wants you to be ahead of him in everything, he is one of the easiest friends to keep. If you get ahead of him early on, and give it some turns to collect all the positive agenda modifiers, give him a gift every 10 turns - he will be your ally in no time. But, having him as ally, also means everyone else will hate your guts, because by playing to Peter his agenda, you go against everyone else at the same time!

    Same with china (he hates you if you have more wonders, including those you get conquering), and brazil (great people).

    Cleo is easy to friend as well but it forces you to keep military spam, even when playing purely defensive, and never lose your military edge over her. Once she gets ahead of you in military, she might just randomly declare you out of nowhere as well

    edit:

    there is also an agenda bug - the second hidden agenda gets chosen from a randomnized pool. And some of them conflict with their base agenda. I had Cleo with "loves you having a strong military" and "loves you having a weak military" at the same time. In other words, no matter what you do, she will hate you!
    Last edited by falagar112; 2016-11-17 at 02:39 PM.
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  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    and define your whole strategy around their agenda, instead of your own. That is just broken and not how it should work, period.
    Not to snip your post too much but I think this right here really nails what I don't like about Civ 5. I mean shit I'm a political scientist and I feel like Civ 6 is more like playing a game at the Mad Hatter's tea party. It feels like you're forced to play someone else's game, where none of the other players have to follow the rules, and they invented the rules.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Not to snip your post too much but I think this right here really nails what I don't like about Civ 5. I mean shit I'm a political scientist and I feel like Civ 6 is more like playing a game at the Mad Hatter's tea party. It feels like you're forced to play someone else's game, where none of the other players have to follow the rules, and they invented the rules.
    Exactly!

    It is why my last few games I have been playing island map only. It eliminates most/all warrior rush bullshit, and prevents me from taking the easy way out (doing the same..)

    But it is just a poor mans fix to some glaring bugs and oversights that should have been patched by now, imo.

    So mostly been playing Stellaris instead, which feels pretty finished now in 1.3+first dlc. It is sad that it does take some content /patching to get a game to release state.. after release.. nowadays, but so used to it, I guess its just the new way to go
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  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    The worst part is... there is this bug that gives you that production bonus as player too

    Only on Immortal and Deity - making Emperor hardest difficulty right now.
    On immortal and Deity it is to easy, you can chop yourself to victory (literally)
    LOL thats pretty funny, considering thats the difficulty I've been trying to win on. Maybe I should up the difficulty to make it easier(lolol).

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by FobManX View Post
    LOL thats pretty funny, considering thats the difficulty I've been trying to win on. Maybe I should up the difficulty to make it easier(lolol).
    From losing on Emperor to winning in ~1300 AD science space race on deity. True story.

    I must have become a really good player!..
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  19. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    Exactly!

    It is why my last few games I have been playing island map only. It eliminates most/all warrior rush bullshit, and prevents me from taking the easy way out (doing the same..)

    But it is just a poor mans fix to some glaring bugs and oversights that should have been patched by now, imo.

    So mostly been playing Stellaris instead, which feels pretty finished now in 1.3+first dlc. It is sad that it does take some content /patching to get a game to release state.. after release.. nowadays, but so used to it, I guess its just the new way to go
    I think a lot of games are released in what a lot of older games would consider "Beta 2" stage. Almost complete, pretty good, but really quite obviously unfinished.

    I also wish the Civs were a little less chatty, or at the very least I had the ability to comment on their civs. Not denounce them, not praise them, but just the little chatter they always say to me like "Hey your Civ looks awesome, good job!" or "Wow your army is puny, HAHA!" And this is a complaint I've had with multiple editions of Civilization, they really do a BAD job at expressing real-world politics, not even fantasy politics.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  20. #480
    ARen't those little chats direcftly related to their agendas and how you align with them though. Itss not random chatter. If your army is weak you'll be worse than Brutus and Cassius combined. And if you have no Navy there will be no place for you at Odins table.
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