The Emerald Dreamcatcher rotation?

[sinofasin]

Been playing since release and finally my first legendary popped last night and thankfully it was the best one yet for single target dps (or so i've read), my question is, how do i fully utilize this legendary? I've read up multiple posts online regarding it and most of it goes like:

Precast wrath>new moon>incar>dot up>moon & moon>SS>wrath>SS>starfire and yada yada

I understand that the rationale behind the revised rotation is to make full use of the proc but with my character not hitting even the lowest haste breakpoint, do i still use it this way? Armory: Delh@barthilas (for some reason my armory isn't working so). I know my itemization isn't the best but i am only open to this much gear

[Tarm]

The general rotation is:

• Get to >90 AP,
• Cast as many 20 AP Starsurges as you can before you run out of AP
• Refresh any dots that need it
• Build back up to >90 AP (casting Moon spells if available, especially Full Moon)
• Repeat

The goal is to maximize the number of 20 AP Starsurges by casting other spells during the 3 second window of the buff to get back some AP.

At your haste level, 4309, the only thing you can fit between Starsurges is New Moon or Solar Wrath. So you should do that. Build up to >90 AP, then cycle SS SW until you run out of AP.

If you started at 100 AP, it would look like this (sub in New Moon for one of the SW if it is up):

Spell             SS SW SS SW SS SW SS SW SS SW SS
AP after spell    60 70 40 50 30 40 20 30 10 20  0

That's 6 Starsurges, 4 of which are 20 AP. Better than nothing! Once you get two stacks of the buff you essentially lose 10 AP per Starsurge (-20 from the SS +10 from the SW). You waste some Lunar Empowerments, but it is worth it to cast 20 AP Starsurges.

You should really try to get at least up to 5417, which gives you enough haste to cast Half Moon or a Starlord-buffed Lunar Strike during the buff. This lets you Starsurge weave a good bit longer:

Spell             SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS
AP after spell    60 75 45 60 40 55 35 50 30 45 25 40 20 35 15 30 10 25  5 20  0

Now you can last for 11 Starsurges and you are only losing 5 AP per Starsurge once you get 2 stacks of the buff. You are wasting Solar Empowerments, but it is still worth it.

Once you hit the 9750 breakpoint, you can cast 2 Starlord-buffed Solar Wraths between Starsurges. Now you can cycle SS LS SS SW SW (wouldn't have enough Solar Empowerments to just cycle SS SW SW). Sub New Moon in for a SW and Half Moon for a LS.

Spell             SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS
AP after spell    60 75 45 55 65 45 60 40 50 60 40 55 35 45 55 35 50 30 40 50 30 45 25 35 45 25 40 20 30 40 20 35 15 25 35 15 30 10 20 30 10 25  5 15 25  5 20  0 10 20  0

This gives you as many as 21 Starsurges before you run out of AP (though you will need to cut it short to cast Full Moon before you reach that many). You are only losing 2.5 AP per Starsurge once you have two stacks of the buff: (-20 +15 -20 +10 +10) / 2 = -2.5. With this scheme you are also wasting much fewer Empowerments (no Solar Empowerments are wasted and only every other Lunar Empowerment is wasted once it gets going).

During Heroism you will be able to cast more spells between Starsurges. At your haste level, you should be able to cycle SS LS SS SW SW during Hero. This will actually be a net gain in AP if you also have Incarnation up ((-20 + 22.5 -20 +15 +15) / 2 = 12.5 AP gained per SS). So cast extra SS as needed to avoid capping AP and dump all your AP before Incarnation ends.

[Cyous]

Keep in mind, this assumes 0 lag and no interruptions (like mechanics). You should aim for ~10.5k to be reliably casting SWx2.

You won't be able to swap out SW for MF or SnF quite yet.

[sinofasin]

The general rotation is:

• Get to >90 AP,
• Cast as many 20 AP Starsurges as you can before you run out of AP
• Refresh any dots that need it
• Build back up to >90 AP (casting Moon spells if available, especially Full Moon)
• Repeat

The goal is to maximize the number of 20 AP Starsurges by casting other spells during the 3 second window of the buff to get back some AP.

At your haste level, 4309, the only thing you can fit between Starsurges is New Moon or Solar Wrath. So you should do that. Build up to >90 AP, then cycle SS SW until you run out of AP.

If you started at 100 AP, it would look like this (sub in New Moon for one of the SW if it is up):

Spell             SS SW SS SW SS SW SS SW SS SW SS
AP after spell    60 70 40 50 30 40 20 30 10 20  0

That's 6 Starsurges, 4 of which are 20 AP. Better than nothing! Once you get two stacks of the buff you essentially lose 10 AP per Starsurge (-20 from the SS +10 from the SW). You waste some Lunar Empowerments, but it is worth it to cast 20 AP Starsurges.

How you start off w 100 AP at the start of the fight, just curious. if so wouldnt you lose 2-3ish lunar empowerments? is it really worth it to lose that 2-3 stacks?

- - - Updated - - -

The general rotation is:

• Get to >90 AP,
• Cast as many 20 AP Starsurges as you can before you run out of AP
• Refresh any dots that need it
• Build back up to >90 AP (casting Moon spells if available, especially Full Moon)
• Repeat

The goal is to maximize the number of 20 AP Starsurges by casting other spells during the 3 second window of the buff to get back some AP.

At your haste level, 4309, the only thing you can fit between Starsurges is New Moon or Solar Wrath. So you should do that. Build up to >90 AP, then cycle SS SW until you run out of AP.

If you started at 100 AP, it would look like this (sub in New Moon for one of the SW if it is up):

Spell             SS SW SS SW SS SW SS SW SS SW SS
AP after spell    60 70 40 50 30 40 20 30 10 20  0

That's 6 Starsurges, 4 of which are 20 AP. Better than nothing! Once you get two stacks of the buff you essentially lose 10 AP per Starsurge (-20 from the SS +10 from the SW). You waste some Lunar Empowerments, but it is worth it to cast 20 AP Starsurges.

You should really try to get at least up to 5417, which gives you enough haste to cast Half Moon or a Starlord-buffed Lunar Strike during the buff. This lets you Starsurge weave a good bit longer:

Spell             SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS
AP after spell    60 75 45 60 40 55 35 50 30 45 25 40 20 35 15 30 10 25  5 20  0

Now you can last for 11 Starsurges and you are only losing 5 AP per Starsurge once you get 2 stacks of the buff. You are wasting Solar Empowerments, but it is still worth it.

Once you hit the 9750 breakpoint, you can cast 2 Starlord-buffed Solar Wraths between Starsurges. Now you can cycle SS LS SS SW SW (wouldn't have enough Solar Empowerments to just cycle SS SW SW). Sub New Moon in for a SW and Half Moon for a LS.

Spell             SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS
AP after spell    60 75 45 55 65 45 60 40 50 60 40 55 35 45 55 35 50 30 40 50 30 45 25 35 45 25 40 20 30 40 20 35 15 25 35 15 30 10 20 30 10 25  5 15 25  5 20  0 10 20  0

This gives you as many as 21 Starsurges before you run out of AP (though you will need to cut it short to cast Full Moon before you reach that many). You are only losing 2.5 AP per Starsurge once you have two stacks of the buff: (-20 +15 -20 +10 +10) / 2 = -2.5. With this scheme you are also wasting much fewer Empowerments (no Solar Empowerments are wasted and only every other Lunar Empowerment is wasted once it gets going).

During Heroism you will be able to cast more spells between Starsurges. At your haste level, you should be able to cycle SS LS SS SW SW during Hero. This will actually be a net gain in AP if you also have Incarnation up ((-20 + 22.5 -20 +15 +15) / 2 = 12.5 AP gained per SS). So cast extra SS as needed to avoid capping AP and dump all your AP before Incarnation ends.

also, during heroism is it worth prioritizing dumping SS over getting an overstack in either empowerments?

[Tarm]

How you start off w 100 AP at the start of the fight, just curious. if so wouldnt you lose 2-3ish lunar empowerments?

You don't start the fight with 100 AP. That's a description of what the Starsurge rotation looks like once you are at high AP. The opener looks something like:

-2.5 Prepot, Wrath (10 AP)
-1 New Moon (20 AP)
Moonfire (23 AP)
Sunfire (26 AP)
Incarnation, Half moon (46 AP)
Full Moon (86 AP)
Wrath (100 AP) (Maybe not worth it if you also have hero? Never thought too much about this...)

Then go into the Starsurge-weaving rotation I described.

is it really worth it to lose that 2-3 stacks?

Yes, casting an extra Starsurge for 20 AP is good enough to make up for a wasted empowerment.

also, during heroism is it worth prioritizing dumping SS over getting an overstack in either empowerments?

During Heroism with Incarnation you will be generating too many empowerments and too much AP to fully utilize everything. But wasting AP is much worse than wasting empowerments, especially when you have the ability to cast Starsurge for a measly 20 AP. So cast extra Starsurges to avoid wasting AP.

This is a general list of the things you should prioritize:

1. Don't waste AP
2. Don't reach 3 Moon charges
3. Maintain dots
4. Cast as many 20 AP Starsurges as possible by following the recommendations above

[Drayarr]

Keep in mind, this assumes 0 lag and no interruptions (like mechanics). You should aim for ~10.5k to be reliably casting SWx2.

You won't be able to swap out SW for MF or SnF quite yet.

I am just over 10.5k and I dont reliably get 2xSW. I dont know if its latency (35-45ms) or something else, I am assuming I am missing something or I am incorrectly performing the rotation..

[Cyous]

I am just over 10.5k and I dont reliably get 2xSW. I dont know if its latency (35-45ms) or something else, I am assuming I am missing something or I am incorrectly performing the rotation..

Be sure you have 2 solar empowerment buffs.

[hawkleberryfin]

The general rotation is:

• Get to >90 AP,
• Cast as many 20 AP Starsurges as you can before you run out of AP
• Refresh any dots that need it
• Build back up to >90 AP (casting Moon spells if available, especially Full Moon)
• Repeat

The goal is to maximize the number of 20 AP Starsurges by casting other spells during the 3 second window of the buff to get back some AP.

At your haste level, 4309, the only thing you can fit between Starsurges is New Moon or Solar Wrath. So you should do that. Build up to >90 AP, then cycle SS SW until you run out of AP.

If you started at 100 AP, it would look like this (sub in New Moon for one of the SW if it is up):

Spell             SS SW SS SW SS SW SS SW SS SW SS
AP after spell    60 70 40 50 30 40 20 30 10 20  0

That's 6 Starsurges, 4 of which are 20 AP. Better than nothing! Once you get two stacks of the buff you essentially lose 10 AP per Starsurge (-20 from the SS +10 from the SW). You waste some Lunar Empowerments, but it is worth it to cast 20 AP Starsurges.

You should really try to get at least up to 5417, which gives you enough haste to cast Half Moon or a Starlord-buffed Lunar Strike during the buff. This lets you Starsurge weave a good bit longer:

Spell             SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS
AP after spell    60 75 45 60 40 55 35 50 30 45 25 40 20 35 15 30 10 25  5 20  0

Now you can last for 11 Starsurges and you are only losing 5 AP per Starsurge once you get 2 stacks of the buff. You are wasting Solar Empowerments, but it is still worth it.

Once you hit the 9750 breakpoint, you can cast 2 Starlord-buffed Solar Wraths between Starsurges. Now you can cycle SS LS SS SW SW (wouldn't have enough Solar Empowerments to just cycle SS SW SW). Sub New Moon in for a SW and Half Moon for a LS.

Spell             SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS
AP after spell    60 75 45 55 65 45 60 40 50 60 40 55 35 45 55 35 50 30 40 50 30 45 25 35 45 25 40 20 30 40 20 35 15 25 35 15 30 10 20 30 10 25  5 15 25  5 20  0 10 20  0

This gives you as many as 21 Starsurges before you run out of AP (though you will need to cut it short to cast Full Moon before you reach that many). You are only losing 2.5 AP per Starsurge once you have two stacks of the buff: (-20 +15 -20 +10 +10) / 2 = -2.5. With this scheme you are also wasting much fewer Empowerments (no Solar Empowerments are wasted and only every other Lunar Empowerment is wasted once it gets going).

During Heroism you will be able to cast more spells between Starsurges. At your haste level, you should be able to cycle SS LS SS SW SW during Hero. This will actually be a net gain in AP if you also have Incarnation up ((-20 + 22.5 -20 +15 +15) / 2 = 12.5 AP gained per SS). So cast extra SS as needed to avoid capping AP and dump all your AP before Incarnation ends.

OK wow. I also got the ED recently on my Druid and I had read the guides and the rotation made no sense (apparently I cannot read very well!). I was trying to still not waste Empowerments but my haste is still pretty low so and my latency is not great so it was clunky as heck. Spelling it out like that helps a ton.

[Drayarr]

Be sure you have 2 solar empowerment buffs.

Even with 2 Emp buffs, sometimes the ED buff drops off sometimes.

[sinofasin]

You don't start the fight with 100 AP. That's a description of what the Starsurge rotation looks like once you are at high AP. The opener looks something like:

-2.5 Prepot, Wrath (10 AP)
-1 New Moon (20 AP)
Moonfire (23 AP)
Sunfire (26 AP)
Incarnation, Half moon (46 AP)
Full Moon (86 AP)
Wrath (100 AP) (Maybe not worth it if you also have hero? Never thought too much about this...)

Then go into the Starsurge-weaving rotation I described.


Yes, casting an extra Starsurge for 20 AP is good enough to make up for a wasted empowerment.



During Heroism with Incarnation you will be generating too many empowerments and too much AP to fully utilize everything. But wasting AP is much worse than wasting empowerments, especially when you have the ability to cast Starsurge for a measly 20 AP. So cast extra Starsurges to avoid wasting AP.

This is a general list of the things you should prioritize:

1. Don't waste AP
2. Don't reach 3 Moon charges
3. Maintain dots
4. Cast as many 20 AP Starsurges as possible by following the recommendations above

during heroism, can starsurge weaving be; SS>lunar strike >ss> lunar strike until heroism duration is over and if stacked with incarn, maybe once in awhile pop 2x SSs in a row to dump AP.

[Tarm]

Even with 2 Emp buffs, sometimes the ED buff drops off sometimes.

It definitely depends on lag. Not much to suggest except to just keep increasing your haste until you can consistently get them off. And really spam that Wrath key to make sure you get them in the queue ASAP.

during heroism, can starsurge weaving be; SS>lunar strike >ss> lunar strike until heroism duration is over and if stacked with incarn, maybe once in awhile pop 2x SSs in a row to dump AP.

If you just cycle SS LS, you will waste all your Solar Empowerments and your Sunfire will fall off.

I recommend cycling SS LS SW during hero if your haste is high enough (>6667). This allows you to maintain both dots and to mostly use both Empowerments. To dump AP either cast multiple SS in a row or switch to SS SW for a while.

Though when haste is very high, you lose value on SW relative to LS due to SW hitting the GCD. Cycling SS LS could become better at some point beyond that. Not sure whether haste during hero can get high enough in current gear for that to be a consideration. SW certainly can hit the GCD, but I don't know if we get to high enough haste levels that LS becomes better single target than a GCD-capped SW.

[joltcola1234]

If you are just below the haste break point to cast two SW's between each SS (ie. You CANNOT cast two SW's before the buff falls off), is it optimal to use LS, SS, LS, SS, LS, SS etc? Swapping over to weave SW only during Hero/Lust and/or Incarnation?

I'm just a little bit below the amount of haste needed for the 2 SS's right now

[zephix]

If you are just below the haste break point to cast two SW's between each SS (ie. You CANNOT cast two SW's before the buff falls off), is it optimal to use LS, SS, LS, SS, LS, SS etc? Swapping over to weave SW only during Hero/Lust and/or Incarnation?

I'm just a little bit below the amount of haste needed for the 2 SS's right now

You still want to cast SW to keep sunfire up

[joltcola1234]

You still want to cast SW to keep sunfire up

So basically being under that haste break point you basically alternate between LS and SW while weaving SS?

So would the following be the correct look?
Opening:
Prepot - Wrath > New moon > Sunfire > Moonfire > Incarnation > Half Moon > Full Moon > Wrath -- Then jump into Starsurge weaving

SS>LS>SS>SW>SS>LS>SS>SW>SS>LS>SS - etc

reapply dots if needed, don't let Moon spells get to 3 stacks

Always jump back into SS weaving at 90+ astral power

Once you hit that last haste break point - weaving becomes:

SS>LS>SS>SW>SW>SS>LS>SS>SW>SW>SS - etc

Does all of this seem accurate?

[sinofasin]

So basically being under that haste break point you basically alternate between LS and SW while weaving SS?

So would the following be the correct look?
Opening:
Prepot - Wrath > New moon > Sunfire > Moonfire > Incarnation > Half Moon > Full Moon > Wrath -- Then jump into Starsurge weaving

SS>LS>SS>SW>SS>LS>SS>SW>SS>LS>SS - etc

reapply dots if needed, don't let Moon spells get to 3 stacks

Always jump back into SS weaving at 90+ astral power

Once you hit that last haste break point - weaving becomes:

SS>LS>SS>SW>SW>SS>LS>SS>SW>SW>SS - etc

Does all of this seem accurate?

i dont think you can weave with LS when youre under the haste break point (the lowest one you're talking about i assume) it just falls off, what i'm doing now after your stated opener is:

SS>SW>SS>SW>SS>SW>build to 90+ with your stacked up lunar emps +moon> continue weaving

[joltcola1234]

i dont think you can weave with LS when youre under the haste break point (the lowest one you're talking about i assume) it just falls off, what i'm doing now after your stated opener is:

SS>SW>SS>SW>SS>SW>build to 90+ with your stacked up lunar emps +moon> continue weaving

I was talking about the break point at 9750, I'm just a little bit under that with a food buff.

I can get a LS between SS's easily, but I'm not quite able to get two SW's in there.

[Tarm]

I was talking about the break point at 9750, I'm just a little bit under that with a food buff.

I can get a LS between SS's easily, but I'm not quite able to get two SW's in there.

You can SS-weave much longer with SS LS than with SS LS SS SW, but on the other hand, you don't want to let Sunfire fall off. So, the rotation becomes a little more ad hoc. In general, I would suggest that you cycle SS LS as much as possible without letting Sunfire fall off.

A few tips to help with this:

• As a rule, try to always refresh Sunfire when the Dreamcatcher buff falls off (either because you ran out of AP, you had to cast Full Moon, or you just lost it due to movement).
• Also try to take advantage of situations where you have to move and wouldn't be able to cast LS to weave in either SW or Sunfire between SS.
• If switching to a SS SW cycle lets you maintain Sunfire for the extra few seconds before you finish a SS-weave, then go for it.
• In high movement situations without the Dreamcatcher buff, spam Sunfire.

[joltcola1234]

You can SS-weave much longer with SS LS than with SS LS SS SW, but on the other hand, you don't want to let Sunfire fall off. So, the rotation becomes a little more ad hoc. In general, I would suggest that you cycle SS LS as much as possible without letting Sunfire fall off.

A few tips to help with this:

• As a rule, try to always refresh Sunfire when the Dreamcatcher buff falls off (either because you ran out of AP, you had to cast Full Moon, or you just lost it due to movement).
• Also try to take advantage of situations where you have to move and wouldn't be able to cast LS to weave in either SW or Sunfire between SS.
• If switching to a SS SW cycle lets you maintain Sunfire for the extra few seconds before you finish a SS-weave, then go for it.
• In high movement situations without the Dreamcatcher buff, spam Sunfire.

Thanks for the tips Tarm.

I just recently got my hands on the ED so I'm still working on the rotation, it feels different so it takes a bit of getting used to.
I'm guessing you would still recommend following the LS, SW, SW style during incarnation and/or heroism/blood lust?

It shouldn't take me a ton of time before I get the required haste for the last break point, only need to swap out a couple of items. If I could get a hold of a decently ilevel stat stick that would get me there as well.

Would it be a dps increase to only weave LS, SS and simply refresh sunfire when it falls off? Or only use SW in certain situations as you mentioned above?

I feel like I should be weaving the SW in there with LS, but obviously not if it's a dps decrease to do so (if it results in less SS)

[Deleted]

Hello, first of all,

Thanks a lot for this post, i have been searching a lot for such an interresting topic and helpfull. Very complete tho, i still have some questions.

1. When you talk about the 9750 Hast Cap, you mean WITH or Without Heroism? I feel like i can do the 21 SS rotation under Heroism even tho i'm far from it.

- I am actually at :

Stats : 24% Crit/22% Haste/42% Mastery/3% Versatility Self Buffed.
Trinket : ( Neltharion's Spike ( From NL ) + Stormsingers ( From EoA ).
Bonus Set : +3000 Mastery from Hands and Feet bonus set CoS/AW.
Addition informations : 1 Legs Equiped (ED) for a total of 872 Ilvl equipped.

2. Wich stats should i improve? I can't get highter than 500-600K DPS in the END of MM+ Boss ( MM+ 5->+10 ).

Thanks in Advance,
I am playing since Vanilla but never done anythings else than Warrior Prot.. Switch DPS is kinda difficult for me, some mechanics are not natural for the moment.

[Deleted]

2. Wich stats should i improve? I can't get highter than 500-600K DPS in the END of MM+ Boss ( MM+ 5->+10 ).

DPS at the end of the boss fight in Mythic+ dungeon is not a good indication due to few factors like how good are your other players? If you go with two Fire Mages or Arcane mage and you pop hero at the start, you can just melt that boss (if all three of you are geared and skilled) and if fight will last around 50 seconds you can get to that 600K dps burst with 872 ilevel.

Your stats look ok but you seems to have low level of haste. i run with 16.6% Crit (3360), 32.6% Haste (10560) and 48% Mastery (5654). I would love to swap mastery to Crit but struggling to find right pieces of gear to do so:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...fiksd/advanced

You want to move away from Mastery into Haste and dropping Crit to get to >30% haste is a good idea as well. Having loads of sockets helps as well but that's RNG for you. I managed to get 7 items with sockets for now that have decent stats (but i sockets should not be priority anyway - just added bonus)

Also all Haste caps discussed here are without Heroism but with food buff (you can get extra 375 buff which sometimes can make a difference).