Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Relapses]

When they gave the source code to Elysium because Blizzard didn't immediately bend backwards to create their little vanilla server and burned a lot of bridges that way, I lost all my understanding for the Nostalrius crowd.

Before that, I was neutral, but them throwing a tantrum and showing their true colors has soured my view of them.

To be fair, Nost giving away their source is pretty much what everybody thought they were going to do when they originally shut down in April. But they were able to get some traction in social media and even snagged a free vacation on Blizzard's dime by "playing by the rules." It's not even a tantrum as much as it is a very thinly veiled marketing ploy.

[Deleted]

Wow. My little bait got two fish on one go!

[Kyanion]

Wow. My little bait got two fish on one go!

See what I mean? Not willing to engage in an actual discussion, just stuff like this.

[Yarathir]

To be fair, Nost giving away their source is pretty much what everybody thought they were going to do when they originally shut down in April. But they were able to get some traction in social media and even snagged a free vacation on Blizzard's dime by "playing by the rules." It's not even a tantrum as much as it is a very thinly veiled marketing ploy.

What I mean is that they pretended to have good will and possess understanding for a while to get Blizzard to dance to their tune, and the moment it didn't go how they wanted and the moment Blizzard didn't immediately bend over backwards to do what they wanted, they essentially throw their toys out of the pram and go "Well, if I can't have my private servers, then I'll just give all my code to another group of people!"

[Relapses]

Wow. My little bait got two fish on one go!

Come on, do you really need to cement the evidence of your heavily insulated echo chamber by pretending to "bait" people?

[Deleted]

Yeah I totally 'shit' on tratra there. I even go on to admit SOME legacy people have had good ideas and I DO understand where some of them are coming from and why they want it. I also try to explain why some of us have different reasons for NOT wanting these things to happen. You are too busy trying to be a victim that you no longer want to have a discussion about this.

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I mean I explain some about my personal preferences but at the same time I'm not calling them out for wanting Legacy. I get why they want it, I enjoyed parts of Vanilla as well. But that does not matter, I can try to explain why I say what I say but I still get flamed for being a toxic waste spewer and such. The difference is I'm not going to go into a victim complex over it. I will still present my arguments as to why I am against Legacy from Blizz.

What is funny that i did not mention any names when i said that some ppl will not like it. But you and Otaxephon where the ones that came to my mind first.
I dont know what u mean with me being a victim here but i dont agree.
Im gona name u #legacybros

[tratra]

See this is what I mean. There ARE valid excuses to be against your fellow gamer and wower. First of all many of these people AREN'T wowers, they quit playing years ago and only play on private servers. They aren't paying customers and yet they have no problem demanding that Blizzard bend to their whims and bring back a 12 year old version of the game.

I don't want Blizzard to go this route because I think it could impact retail in negative ways. I've gone over this many times but I'll say some of it again. If Legacy comes out and then fails a few months later what happens? Legacy people will be all "Oh wells" and either stop playing or just be a minority of people paying to play. What if some people leave retail to try Legacy and hate it and then decide to just stop WoW altogether because they lost time they could have been using on retail. I'm worried about a fragmentation of the playerbase.

But the one that stands out to me is this. Why would some people bother even leaving their FREE private servers in the first place? Why pay money to Blizzard when they don't have to. If some of these servers basically ignore C&D and never get shut down, what reason is there for someone to abandon time spent and characters on their favorite PS to come PAY for the same thing? Yes it'll be better quality and won't have the risk of getting shut down but some people won't leave to do it.

Of course this is all speculation, I'd rather Blizz just not go this route until years down the road when WoW is no longer getting expansions. I don't have a horse in this race as I'm not a stockholder for Blizz or involved with them in any capacity. I just enjoy WoW and don't want to see it take a potential misstep. I could be wrong and Legacy will do well and the game will be all better and stuff, but I really don't see it. My main problem has been how the Pro-Legacy people have handled this situation, by tossing out bullshit 'facts' and being a general nuisance.

Sorry but since they bought the game they are, the fact that their sub is not active doesn't change anything. They still bought a game that should be playable. End of story for you.

NEXT!

[Relapses]

What I mean is that they pretended to have good will and possess understanding for a while to get Blizzard to dance to their tune, and the moment it didn't go how they wanted and the moment Blizzard didn't immediately bend over backwards to do what they wanted, they essentially throw their toys out of the pram and go "Well, if I can't have my private servers, then I'll just give all my code to another group of people!"

I don't think Blizzard ever danced to their tune. The vacation was a PR stunt, nothing more and nothing less. I don't blame them for taking it but I think at the time one of the conditions for them coming out there was that they wouldn't release the code. If you read the write up Nost did after they got back, Blizzard did say that they would "keep an open line of communication" with Nost (I'd presume via e-mail) then promptly ignored the fuck out of them. So perhaps that's where a bit of the angst comes from. Even said, I don't really think releasing their code publicly now makes their position look any better to players who were undecided on the issue.

[Yarathir]

I don't think Blizzard ever danced to their tune. The vacation was a PR stunt, nothing more and nothing less. I don't blame them for taking it but I think at the time one of the conditions for them coming out there was that they wouldn't release the code. If you read the write up Nost did after they got back, Blizzard did say that they would "keep an open line of communication" with Nost (I'd presume via e-mail) then promptly ignored the fuck out of them. So perhaps that's where a bit of the angst comes from. Even said, I don't really think releasing their code publicly now makes their position look any better to players who were undecided on the issue.

It reminds me of a kid who pretends to be good in order to get candy, but then throws a big tantrum the moment they don't get it, showing that it was all just an act to manipulate the person with the candy.

Yeah, it doesn't really make them come over as more agreeable. It's just childish to me.

[Kyanion]

Sorry but since they bought the game they are, the fact that their sub is not active doesn't change anything. They still bought a game that should be playable. End of story for you.

NEXT!

Yeah and? They aren't paying to play and haven't for years, simple as that. Like it has been debated forever in this thread, just because you bought the game does not mean you get to play Vanilla. The game evolved, get used to it.

Gee does that mean because I have like 12 accounts thanks to getting all the RAF mounts/pets that I have more votes in this?

[tratra]

Yeah and? They aren't paying to play and haven't for years, simple as that. Like it has been debated forever in this thread, just because you bought the game does not mean you get to play Vanilla. The game evolved, get used to it.

Gee does that mean because I have like 12 accounts thanks to getting all the RAF mounts/pets that I have more votes in this?

I think they should stop creating mounts because I dont like it and am a paying customer. I am not paying for you to have mount skins.

[Kyanion]

I think they should stop creating mounts because I dont like it and am a paying customer. I am not paying for you to have mount skins.

Cool, make a thread about it. I don't know what this has to do with anything.

[Akka]

Of course that is one sided. Plenty of those 'details and lengthy explanations' have been full of BS, made up 'facts', outlandish guesses, skewing the data and so on. There havebeen some pro-Legacy posts that were well thought out and had some ideas, but the problem is it is very hard to provide more than guesses because we all have limited data to work with.

But see you are just as guilty by blaming one side for being 'mouthbreathers' and claiming the only argument that side has is "It is nostalgia, it'll suck" or whatever. That is bullshit.

Thanks for proving every point I made.

[Kyanion]

Thanks for proving every point I made.

I don't think I can facepalm hard enough. Seems like you just think one side is causing all the problems. Gotcha. Wrong, but I gotcha.

[Ielenia]

Actually, TONS of details and lenghty explanations have been repeatedly provided.

I have yet to see such an answer that either doesn't boil down to "because I say so" or isn't blatantly hypocritical, like claiming raids in vanilla were, by design, harder than today's raid. The most repeated complaints I've seen against Legion, by the pro-legacy posters, is "there is nothing to do" and "it's boring".

But they are simply ignored or handwaved away so the same mouthbreathers

Sure. Insult the opposition. That makes you look superior, right? Anyways, care to repeat said explanations, then? I've been asking for such for countless pages.

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Why being against people that want to enjoy older versions of the game?

We're not exactly against people liking older versions of the game. We're against people that: a) misuse or blatantly falsify data to back their arguments; b) do not accept the answers Blizzard gives them in regard to legacy servers and calls them liars and "afraid"; c) insult people that believe the resources would be better spent improving the retail game; and d) approve and support all the bullshitery the Nostalrius gang have done with the veiled threats and still think they have the "moral" high ground to demand stuff from Blizzard.

There is literally no valid excuse to be against a fellow gamer and wower. You can argue all you want, whats best vanilla or legion, wod or legion, tbc or vanilla, burgers or pasta. Its fine, you can argue about that. You can't though be so selfish bluntly taking a stance against people that want to play an earlier version of the game.

Actually, there are several reasons, and you can call them "selfish" if you want, but that doesn't make hem any less valid. Here are some of said reasons: one, resources would have to be diverted from the main game to develop and maintain the legacy servers, which would affect not only future patch and expansion development, but would affect customer service as well; two, the possibility that legacy servers are made "for free", which means people who want nothing to do with vanilla will be forced to shoulder the bill to keep those servers afloat; three, Blizzard has stated, and we agree, that running two versions of the same game, concurrently, is not feasible, but people refuse to accept that.

[Deleted]

Stop all the fighting! Don't be so mean to one another!" <sniff>

Here is the thing:

It does not matter who makes the best argument for or against legacy servers on these forums. There is only one bottom-line to this whole argument:

Some people (don't know how many and don't care either) want to play classic WoW again and they are going to do it either legally or illegally.

It is up to Blizzard to decide which it is going to be.

[Ielenia]

Sorry but since they bought the game they are, the fact that their sub is not active doesn't change anything.

If they're not paying, they're not in position to demand anything at all.

They still bought a game that should be playable. End of story for you.

NEXT!

Actually, no. When you install WoW and run it for the very first time, and every time after a big patch, you have to accept the EULA and ToU for WoW, which explicitly says that the game is going to change with time. It's not a matter of 'if', but 'when'.

I mean, check out Section 8 of WoW's Terms of Use (the same one that appears when you first run the game):

Changes to the Terms of Use or the Game.

Blizzard reserves the right, at its sole and absolute discretion, to change, modify, add to, supplement or delete, at any time, any of the terms and conditions of this Agreement, any feature of the Game or the Service, hours of availability, content, data, software or equipment needed to access the Game or the Service, effective with or without prior notice;

TL;DR? You're told, from the get-go, that the game you bought will change. So, to claim that you're entitled to pay the version of the game from years ago because you paid for it is, at the very least, disingenuous and a little bit childish.

[Popokolara]

Sorry but since they bought the game they are, the fact that their sub is not active doesn't change anything. They still bought a game that should be playable. End of story for you.

NEXT!

Buying the Game gives you access to the current stage of its developement and available content, while subscription gives you the game time to enjoy it. In no way do you reserve a right to affect their design decisions or even demand things that were not promised and advertised. You hold no shares. You bought a product and now just because you used to use it you demand an older version to be rereleased. You blatanly ignore EULA and anything legaly related that could describe your argument.

Even if you were to be holding the moral highground, EULA would still be the law and only deciding factor. Therefore your argument and tone serves only to embarass you to the point im thinking this might be a troll attempt.

In your own words end of story for you, next etc etc.

[ThunderTaco]

I think they should stop creating mounts because I dont like it and am a paying customer. I am not paying for you to have mount skins.

I think Blizzard should care less about every one's opinion and create the game they want.

[tratra]

Buying the Game gives you access to the current stage of its developement and available content, while subscription gives you the game time to enjoy it. In no way do you reserve a right to affect their design decisions or even demand things that were not promised and advertised. You hold no shares. You bought a product and now just because you used to use it you demand an older version to be rereleased. You blatanly ignore EULA and anything legaly related that could describe your argument.

Even if you were to be holding the moral highground, EULA would still be the law and only deciding factor. Therefore your argument and tone serves only to embarass you to the point im thinking this might be a troll attempt.

In your own words end of story for you, next etc etc.

u know what... boring lawmaker mate, try close nost 2 in russia :P