7.1.5 Cheating Death NEED to reset when you die.

[Deleted]

sorry bro but i'm doing any content (mythic rading and up to +15 mythic dungeons), i didnt know a single mechanic which is not dodgable/survivable with ease (hide/max range/cloak/feint). If you are performing well, a suprising death will never happen.

In really high mythics elusiveness or leeching poison are much more effective in prevent you from death than CD. With CD you would die much more often and the missing damage reduction support / selfhealing at some real high keystone bosses making the whole project much more difficult. If you are unfocused, you would die very often at high key stone trash/bosses multiple times at the same pack/try, even with CD.

Leeching poison. Aha. How's that going to help you solo soak anything?

Leeching poison is a noob bait talent

It's like people stacking items with leech because they think it will make them into a season 1 tryndamere with 5x bloodthirster

What you want isn't to save your healer 0,001% mana. It's to survive doing "oh shit situations". Leeching poison does nothing for that.

It's like other people in this thread saying just don't make mistakes. Well if no one makes mistakes you won't ever need to even press feint or use a healthstone. Everyone makes mistakes. With this in mind leeching poison is absolutely worthless. I doubt you are doing anything above hc raiding

Also to correct you. I was not talking about surprising deaths but about the ability to solo soak. If you do any serious PvE you would know the value of a solo soak

[Deleted]

Leeching poison. Aha. How's that going to help you solo soak anything?

Leeching poison is a noob bait talent

It's like people stacking items with leech because they think it will make them into a season 1 tryndamere with 5x bloodthirster

What you want isn't to save your healer 0,001% mana. It's to survive doing "oh shit situations". Leeching poison does nothing for that.

It's like other people in this thread saying just don't make mistakes. Well if no one makes mistakes you won't ever need to even press feint or use a healthstone. Everyone makes mistakes. With this in mind leeching poison is absolutely worthless. I doubt you are doing anything above hc raiding

Also to correct you. I was not talking about surprising deaths but about the ability to solo soak. If you do any serious PvE you would know the value of a solo soak

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...136396/latest/

furthermore i did +15 and several +10 to +14 outside of the last week. I think i have some practise to validate my statement.

Feint, Cloak and the other 10 classes inside my raid are more than enough to solo soak stuff.

I will always use leeching poison until some abilites forces me to switch to elusiveness (what happens very quickly in very high mythic+ dungeons, when random single target non-aoe effects are starting to [nearly] onehit you). Most of all oneshotting effects in raids and dungeons are aoe-effects which are survivable with no effort if you use feint. Cloak is also in 90% of all cases more than sufficient.

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...136396/latest/

furthermore i did +15 and several +10 to +14 outside of the last week. I think i have some practise to validate my statement.

Feint, Cloak and the other 10 classes inside my raid are more than enough to solo soak stuff.

I have no reason to believe this is you. And even if it is it's a sad testament to your ignorance that you are using leeching poison
Also the keystones only show low level keystone dungeons?

[Deleted]

I dont log by myself.

@ sorry for my seemingly arrogant appearence, its not my intention to make bad blood. Its just my opinion and i am doing well so far. Play whatever you want.

[Teebone]

you guys dont get it... the CD is fine.. the problem is the need to wait it reset before every pull in raid.

are you guys that dense to get it ?

There's a reason for that. And it's not exclusive to WoW. Any game that has both a pve and pvp draw to it suffers from this. I don't disagree that this sucks, but unfortunately it's just a fact of any multifaceted game like WoW.

[Deleted]

Yeah that would be a nice quality of life change to the nerf..

the nerf is intended for cheath death not procing twice a raid encounter , which is fine.

what is not fine to wipe after a 1 1/2 minute fight to see we have still 3 minute cd on it after the next pull..

[Deleted]

Cheat Death is (was) a super cheesy way to trivialize damage soak mechanics. Black holes on Xhul anyone? The longer cooldown essentially makes this approach non-viable in the future. Which I'm pretty okay with to be honest.

If the increased cooldown affects one's survivability they really need to take a step back and re-evaluate their play overall. We have so many ways to reduce/avoid damage, it should be a complete non-issue in that regard.

Pretty much agreeing with everything you said.
Cloak, Evade/Riposte and Feint give you enough damage reduction and avoidance already. Cheat death is a nice little extra, that allows you to cheeze through some damage.

But you shouldn't even need it more than 1 time in a boss fight. And I can't remember ever having it procc 2 times in any raid encounter.

[TheRogue]

God you can pick the non raiders in this discussion so easily.

Six minutes without a reset on wipe is a stupid change, if they change it to reset on death six minutes is fine.

[Nikkaszal]

God you can pick the non raiders in this discussion so easily.

Six minutes without a reset on wipe is a stupid change, if they change it to reset on death six minutes is fine.

You actually plan on dying in the middle of EVERY pull?

You SHOULD be dying when a wipe is called or if you fuck up. If you NEED Cheat Death to survive a pull, you're fucking terrible.

[ymirsson]

Why should the Bloodlust debuff reset then when you wipe? It's not like you need a new BL if you don't fuck up.

[Deleted]

Making it reset on wipes makes sense. I still wish they'd get away from abilities that can be trivialized with cooldowns simply because it would makes fights a bit harder/fun (on mythic) since you'd need some more coordination to soak shit properly rather than say "X, use an immunity and soak the thing that would otherwise need 6 players". In my opinions CDs should be usable in most cases where you're looking at a 1 person job i.e. soaking brambles while they'd not work for situations that require multiple people i.e. black hole soaking on Xhul/Helya tentacles.

[Deleted]

Making it reset on wipes makes sense. I still wish they'd get away from abilities that can be trivialized with cooldowns simply because it would makes fights a bit harder/fun (on mythic) since you'd need some more coordination to soak shit properly rather than say "X, use an immunity and soak the thing that would otherwise need 6 players". In my opinions CDs should be usable in most cases where you're looking at a 1 person job i.e. soaking brambles while they'd not work for situations that require multiple people i.e. black hole soaking on Xhul/Helya tentacles.

It's a nightmare to find enough good capable players on smaller servers. Being able to carry shit players is essential.

[Deleted]

Is it though?

I mean, if you're dying in a raid environment its usually because you're doing something wrong. If anything having Cheat Death reset on death would just make it a bigger crutch leading to bad players getting worse.

And if somebody of the other 19 people does something wrong, we all die. Now my talent is on cooldown in the next try and I did not even use it for the intended use in the first try.

[Segus1992]

Problem identified. And you unwittingly agreed with the poster. It's simple, really: Don't. Make. Mistakes. Relying on a mechanic to get you through something means you are doing something wrong, unless the encounter actually causes you to die intentionally as part of a mechanic.

Spoken like a true LFR raider.

If not, you can't possibly be dense enough to believe there aren't wipes in raids.

[Teebone]

Spoken like a true LFR raider.

If not, you can't possibly be dense enough to believe there aren't wipes in raids.

I don't even play WoW anymore sir. And this is exactly why I do not miss this community. Wipes happen. Because of mistakes. In all games that have raids. Relying on a mechanic and basing your attempts on it's cooldown is a fundamental problem with either your technique, the game's design or both.

If you are unwilling to accept that simple fact, then maybe it is you who should stick to things like LFR. Cheat Death exists to account for human error. If its such a problem that you are forced to wait on its cooldown, perhaps understanding why you are waiting on its cooldown in the first place is where you should look.

And in my day, kiddo, we didn't have any mechanics like that. We took our deaths. God, how spoiled raiders have become. Sad.

[PessimiStick]

I don't even play WoW anymore sir. And this is exactly why I do not miss this community. Wipes happen. Because of mistakes. In all games that have raids. Relying on a mechanic and basing your attempts on it's cooldown is a fundamental problem with either your technique, the game's design or both.

If you are unwilling to accept that simple fact, then maybe it is you who should stick to things like LFR. Cheat Death exists to account for human error. If its such a problem that you are forced to wait on its cooldown, perhaps understanding why you are waiting on its cooldown in the first place is where you should look.

And in my day, kiddo, we didn't have any mechanics like that. We took our deaths. God, how spoiled raiders have become. Sad.

You realize that's not how progression raiders use the talent, right? It's not there to account for human error, it's there to allow you to do something that would otherwise require other people, allowing you to get more raid DPS and less healing required. Even in cases where you aren't cheesing a mechanic to solo soak, you could use it to inflate personal DPS by ignoring a mechanic. It's basically the old Vanish trick, except it's 100% foolproof and you can't fail.

Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about, just stop.

[Cazz17]

@Dithemoira312 pretty sure it would reset on joining a new pvp instance or if you swap it out and swap it back in (which you can do freely before the match)

[Deleted]

I don't even play WoW anymore sir. And this is exactly why I do not miss this community. Wipes happen. Because of mistakes. In all games that have raids. Relying on a mechanic and basing your attempts on it's cooldown is a fundamental problem with either your technique, the game's design or both.

If you are unwilling to accept that simple fact, then maybe it is you who should stick to things like LFR. Cheat Death exists to account for human error. If its such a problem that you are forced to wait on its cooldown, perhaps understanding why you are waiting on its cooldown in the first place is where you should look.

And in my day, kiddo, we didn't have any mechanics like that. We took our deaths. God, how spoiled raiders have become. Sad.

I respectfully disagree sir. I believe cheat death exists to, well, cheat death! The reason why someone wants to cheat death is down to the player and their situation. As an example:

When I came back to WoW after a 6 year break I picked cheat death because in those 6 years I became quite a potato and genuinely struggled to perform my rotation well and handle mechanics correctly simultaneously. In this case for me cheat death existed to account for human error, or in this case potato error. But 2 months on I've emerged from my potato cocoon into something rather less vegetably, you might even say I'm quite the big mac now, and I can click buttons again.

Now I will still sometimes choose cheat death because of reasons other people have metioned (increased dps by ignoring mechanic, helping the group out by being able to soak something I would otherwise die to). In this case cheat death exists to server a higher purpose - it exists to increase my options / my groups options when deciding how to handle something.

On the flipside - I completely agree with you that RELYING on the cooldown does indicate a problem with the player, rogues have such lovely survivability built into their kit with vanish/cloak/evasion/feint that a competant player should be able to work around the CD.

[Deleted]

It should definitely reset on boss pulls or arenas and I'm 90% sure that it is going to be fixed that way. I don't really understand how so many people are fighting over it. The 6 min CD nerf during the fight is already a huge deal since you could have 2-3 rogues handle most soak mechanics previously. (xhul holes the best example). Now you can do it pretty much only once during the whole fight.

The problem is that during fast pulls you pretty much start every fight with the ability on a 4-5 min CD (we assume that a wipe is called and you didn't fuck up earlier in the fight) which kinda makes the talent pointless.

[DakonBlackblade]

Problem identified. And you unwittingly agreed with the poster. It's simple, really: Don't. Make. Mistakes. Relying on a mechanic to get you through something means you are doing something wrong, unless the encounter actually causes you to die intentionally as part of a mechanic.

Because killing every boss in 1 attempt during progression is super how mythic raiding works right ? not having this reset on deaths/wipes is as retarded as not having Ice Blocks reset on deaths/wipes, it is probably more retarded since ice block the mage has a choice if he wants to press the buttom just for the sake of it when the raid is wiping or not and rogues don't, cheat death has to proc before you die.

You actually plan on dying in the middle of EVERY pull?

You SHOULD be dying when a wipe is called or if you fuck up. If you NEED Cheat Death to survive a pull, you're fucking terrible.

You do realise that if the thing procs on every wipe (wich it does since you die when you wipe), itll be on CD on every freaking pull ever and be essentialy useless. If it is a talent that could save you from a fuck up once or a talent that could be used actively for ignoring a certain mechanic and getting extra deeps or soaking something that needs soaking, it realy does not matter cause the point of the discussion is that by not resetting it is a useless talent, the reason why ppl pick the talent is besides the point. If the CD does not reset, the talent simply does not work.