Destruction: I dont think the sky is falling

[Duckz0rs]

~GoSac got a hefty nerf, iono why since its not exactly strong in the first place.

This one change I do not undestand. Maybe they want to ensure you don't take GoSac for anything but heavy AoE/Cleave, but really - I'd rather make them turn GoSac into a viable alternative to pets at all times. I do not think opting out of pet is such a terrible thing to allow to people, especially considering we did so for such a long time in PvE anyway.

My biggest issue with the GoSac nerf is the indirect beating Dark Pact might take as a result. If it's still the top pick for cleave/AoE, nothing's wrong really. But if it's only the best pick for AoE that might be a problem. Considering we're tied to the imp Dark Pacts shield might just get beaten by the passive Demon Skin pretty much always due to the imp's bizarrely low HP. A 250k active mitigation isn't really something to write home about, let alone when compared to a 2million+ shield through Sac.

[Deleted]

Also for fel's sake bring soul shatter back (on a shorter cd :P), so many years it wasnt usefull at all and when they removed it they put skittish in the game...

[Dnusha]

Disagree, as of now Shadowburn is a dead talent in PvE. Turning it into a more powerful generator with option for bonus shards gives hope to see it in actual play, at worst it will end up being same thing as now - not taken. PvP - it is a nerf, yes.

Yeah no. How the fuck turning SB from an ablity without any cooldown into a spell with a 2(3) charges spell on 12 sec cd will make it better? That will only limit situations where it can be used. Currently every new add coming into fight means another free shard and a 350% sp hit. In 7.1.5 this number will be severely limited by SB cooldown. Atm you can use both conflag and sb to generate shards. 7.1.5 if you pick SB you ONLY have one option. They could have just rename talent into Imporoved conflagrate: "You get another shard from conflagrate if your target dies."

It's not an improvement it's just blizzards lack of creativity. They failed to find a proper place for shadowburn because they "improved" it from being an execute and therefore it lost it's niche. Now they have a problem in pvp(bg/rbg) where destro only casts instants for unlimited shards and wrecks the shit out of everyone in terms of damage. (and not only in terms of damage but in terms of retarded gameplay) Who would have thought that would be a problem? . Probably everyone since it has been stated numerous times during beta that this will happen.

Blizzard wanted people to use chaosbolt in pvp? People didn't cus CB was shit. (actually big part of CB and SB doing shit dmg is that we are no longer have our old mastery. Thanks for new mastery blizz! ) They had to make an OP band aid talent for people to use CB again.
Now they are looking at talent distribution: "People aren't using SB in Pve(because damage is shit) people are abusing instant cast in PvP(becasue it's OP). Let's remove it and see how people react!" Congrats for providing reaction that they had hoped for!

I encourage everyone to look back at MoP Shadowburn, to look at WoD SB and recall how great it was to blast everyone with huge SB crits. If a few adds were low you knew 'I'm going to be number one today'. If it happened on arena it was like "YOU ARE FUCKING SCREWED BRAH AND YOUR BITCH FRIEND OVER THERE AS WELL!" That was a glorious time!

Look at how much we have lost already for only 4 years! Dark Soul? Gone. 2 charges on Dark Soul? Gone. Instant Shadowfury? Gone. Dark Bargain Immunity? Gone. Permanent Mannoroth's fury that affects Fire and Brimstone? Gone. Fire and Brimstone that affects Immolate and conflag? Gone. Fire and Brimstone as a baseline ability? Gone. Kil'jaeden's Cunning in it's best shape - Gone! Soul Swap? Gone! AoE Chaos Bolt? Gone! 1 sec GCD? Gone! Destro Mastery that provided us with huge chaosbolts and shadowburns? Gone. Burning Embers? Gone. On demand healing through Embers? Gone! Soulshatter? Gone! Demonology has been butchered to create a selling point for new expansion! And what they gave us in return? Half of our abilities are now talents - nerfed and dumbed down to please masses (even fucking demonic portal is talent - could you image this in MoP or Cata?), Random ass mastery and shard generation, Demonic fucking empowerment - fuck this shit, Mata Tap was bad but they managed to make it even worse with a new talent, affliction warlocks look at you - spec is a joke for all beta and two and half months since release. Enough of this shit. Blizzard ignored warlock feedback for a Year! It's is clear that there is no clear direction at blizzard hq about warlock - all new changes are band aids and random fixes to make thieir failed class vision to work. Apparently nobody there playing warlock at all for years and have no clear understanding on what is important and what is not.

So i beg you to go there on the forums, twitter whatever and leave your feedback, good things bad things everything even if it's fucking dead EU forum. Because if we won't do it now this...so called class is what we will play for next two years.

[Gaidax]

Too much melodrama, how about take a breath of fresh air and lay off the "f" word, for starters?

If that's the quality your feedback, then you are wasting everyone's time.

[Caolela]

At Blizzard, you can't get uppity about warlocks or you'll suffer the same fate as Xelnath did - there's the door, fucker! You are henceforth banished from this kingdom...

Now if you advocated for say...mage, pally, hunter...you'd probably get a big corner office with large windows and a new Tesla. Didn't Greg Street's kid (or GC himself) main a mage for quite awhile?

[Halwyn]

I doubt Soul Harvest will be better than either RE or Eradication for ST

Harvest is on FnB/Cata Row now.

[Dnusha]

Too much melodrama, how about take a breath of fresh air and lay off the "f" word, for starters?

If that's the quality your feedback, then you are wasting everyone's time.

please, what was the last time constructive feedback brought anything to the class? I'm all for constructive feedback but the thing is it won't be heard if you don't shout it in the blizz ear. Or maybe there was not enough constructive feedback during beta?

[Gaidax]

please, what was the last time constructive feedback brought anything to the class? I'm all for constructive feedback but the thing is it won't be heard if you don't shout it in the blizz ear. Or maybe there was not enough constructive feedback during beta?

How about 1.7.5 where they did what people asked them and separated AoE and ST tiers for Destruction or added Malefic Grasp or Chaos Bolt not hitting hard in PvP or extra mobility tool in PvE or underperforming as a whole or 3 shards baseline to relieve ramp a bit...

It's easy to forget all the things that were improved (especially if you senselessly rage), but the fact is simple - we had multiple improvements bagged in since launch of Legion... it is what? Barely 2 and a half months out and we already got plenty of positive improvements in.

Saying that devs don't listen or when last time constructive feedback brought anything to the class is seriously bullshit, simply because of the fact that last 2 months we had nothing but positive changes with only small bits that can be considered negative. I remember that at start of the Legion I was telling people to be civil and wait, because things will get better and fast and I was getting crucified for it, well guess what? Things ARE steadily getting better and they will go on and progress in positive direction because, as a matter of fact, genuine feedback goes through just fine (even if not always acted upon right now now now!).

The whole outrage going on here is not justified really, especially since half the things happening here are direct result of what players asked for and half are not even in yet, like for example, numbers balancing.

---

Basically, you don't have to say word "fuck" 5 times in the row and scream how you want Burning Embers back to get results. As a matter of fact, what you did equals to the waste of time, because I am sure any sort of relevant person starting to read your post would just drop it at first profanity and continue forward. I would certainly do in their case.

[Jessicka]

How about 1.7.5 where they did what people asked them and separated AoE and ST tiers for Destruction or added Malefic Grasp or Chaos Bolt not hitting hard in PvP or extra mobility tool in PvE or underperforming as a whole or 3 shards baseline to relieve ramp a bit...

It's easy to forget all the things that were improved (especially if you senselessly rage), but the fact is simple - we had multiple improvements bagged in since launch of Legion... it is what? Barely 2 and a half months out and we already got plenty of positive improvements in.

Saying that devs don't listen or when last time constructive feedback brought anything to the class is seriously bullshit, simply because of the fact that last 2 months we had nothing but positive changes with only small bits that can be considered negative. I remember that at start of the Legion I was telling people to be civil and wait, because things will get better and fast and I was getting crucified for it, well guess what? Things ARE steadily getting better and they will go on and progress in positive direction because, as a matter of fact, genuine feedback goes through just fine (even if not always acted upon right now now now!).

The whole outrage going on here is not justified really, especially since half the things happening here are direct result of what players asked for and half are not even in yet, like for example, numbers balancing.

---

Basically, you don't have to say word "fuck" 5 times in the row and scream how you want Burning Embers back to get results. As a matter of fact, what you did equals to the waste of time, because I am sure any sort of relevant person starting to read your post would just drop it at first profanity and continue forward. I would certainly do in their case.

People asked for MG to replace Soul Effigy, not as a rebranding effort for Drain Soul, which functionally, makes absolutely no difference to how DS was working. Whether it's channeling DS means DS is doing more damage than you would with Drain Life, or channeling Malefic Grasp means more damage is happening while you channel MG is absolutely no different unless you're an idiot and let your DoTs fall off.

Seriously, they could have made the announcement based on the premise that Drain Soul and Malefic Grasp had better animations, and that this was the improve the otherwise lacklustre aesthetic Affliction was suffering from, and it would make a lot more sense in that context.

[Inshabel]

Harvest is on FnB/Cata Row now.

Yes that's my point right now I can spec BOTH RE and Eradication, but after 7.1.5 I'll be forced to pick either one and settle for Soul Harvest on the next row for ST, so while the allround build improves, the specialized one suffers.

[Deleted]

Yes that's my point right now I can spec BOTH RE and Eradication, but after 7.1.5 I'll be forced to pick either one and settle for Soul Harvest on the next row for ST, so while the allround build improves, the specialized one suffers.

What is the dmg difference between the live st build (RE+Eradication) vs the one on ptr (RE+Soul Harvest)?

[Gaidax]

People asked for MG to replace Soul Effigy, not as a rebranding effort for Drain Soul, which functionally, makes absolutely no difference to how DS was working. Whether it's channeling DS means DS is doing more damage than you would with Drain Life, or channeling Malefic Grasp means more damage is happening while you channel MG is absolutely no different unless you're an idiot and let your DoTs fall off.

Seriously, they could have made the announcement based on the premise that Drain Soul and Malefic Grasp had better animations, and that this was the improve the otherwise lacklustre aesthetic Affliction was suffering from, and it would make a lot more sense in that context.

No, people asked for a way to increase Affliction Single Target damage and Malefic Grasp was popping up in various shades or forms (or increasing Drain Life damage or increasing dot damage when you Drain Life).

Basically this is what was given... issue?

I am curious about the tuning they will do as Drain Soul is not doing damage it should be doing on PTR, but basically seems they heard that Affliction ST needs improvement, so well, they work on it?

But in any case, raging and screaming about how devs do not give shit about feedback is clearly dishonest, because 7.1.5 talent changes clearly show they actually do try to tackle some of the complaints like mixed ST/AoE rows for Destruction or Affliction ST or Mana Tap/Soul Harvest being shit, which in turn means they DO read feedback.

[Dnusha]

How about 1.7.5 where they did what people asked them and separated AoE and ST tiers for Destruction or added Malefic Grasp or Chaos Bolt not hitting hard in PvP or extra mobility tool in PvE or underperforming as a whole or 3 shards baseline to relieve ramp a bit...

It's easy to forget all the things that were improved (especially if you senselessly rage), but the fact is simple - we had multiple improvements bagged in since launch of Legion... it is what? Barely 2 and a half months out and we already got plenty of positive improvements in.

Saying that devs don't listen or when last time constructive feedback brought anything to the class is seriously bullshit, simply because of the fact that last 2 months we had nothing but positive changes with only small bits that can be considered negative. I remember that at start of the Legion I was telling people to be civil and wait, because things will get better and fast and I was getting crucified for it, well guess what? Things ARE steadily getting better and they will go on and progress in positive direction because, as a matter of fact, genuine feedback goes through just fine (even if not always acted upon right now now now!).

The whole outrage going on here is not justified really, especially since half the things happening here are direct result of what players asked for and half are not even in yet, like for example, numbers balancing.

---

Basically, you don't have to say word "fuck" 5 times in the row and scream how you want Burning Embers back to get results. As a matter of fact, what you did equals to the waste of time, because I am sure any sort of relevant person starting to read your post would just drop it at first profanity and continue forward. I would certainly do in their case.

Oh yeah band aid talents i've mentioned them before but you probably missed that. And what other talents in that PvP talent row are being picked after CB talent has been implemented? Maybe Firestone that provides exactly the same benefit but every 45 sec or instant Immolate that will be dumpstered after so called SB "revamp" will go live. Thats how blizz works - thing doesn't work - make it OP. Now we have the only talent in this row.

Malefic grasp? Do you recall when they said they don't like how malefic grasp was a thing that makes dots on a sigle target too strong in comparison to other dots and that they want to prevent this in the future? Here we go again. Doesn't work - good old thing that we said won't be in the game is back on a stage. Where are consistent changes here? There is clearly a lack of vision. People asked to separate aoe and st tiers? I don't recall that, but i do recall that people asked fo synergy between AOE spell and talents. Instead Blizz took AoE talents and thrown them into one talent tier? What an elegant decision! Pick one boyz. (the same thing they did with 7.0 lvl 15 talents - pick one)

And it's just sad. It kinda shows how devs are actually deal with feedback. I do no longer belive that there is someone there in the team that have played lock for years and can understand concerns we are talking about here. That shadowburn change was the last straw. I guess it's fine for blizz to remove big part of the gameplay even if a lot of players are used to enjoy it in previous expansions since hey, class fantasy prevents us to make an execute for this spec.

Yeah 3 shards was a nice addition that i didn't not expect. But i do not think Locks are in a poor state numberwise, class mechanics though leaves much to be desired.

yeah nice edit.

Basically, you don't have to say word "fuck" 5 times in the row and scream how you want Burning Embers back to get results. As a matter of fact, what you did equals to the waste of time, because I am sure any sort of relevant person starting to read your post would just drop it at first profanity and continue forward. I would certainly do in their case.

So then maybe pretty ladies like you should not read bad words and educate other people what they should say and where. You're famous blizz fanboy here so this post was not adressed to you.

[Caolela]

Basically, you don't have to say word "fuck" 5 times in the row and scream how you want Burning Embers back to get results. As a matter of fact, what you did equals to the waste of time, because I am sure any sort of relevant person starting to read your post would just drop it at first profanity and continue forward. I would certainly do in their case.

Yes Guidax because we wouldn't want to offend their virgin ears, would we? Let's get real - that's just an excuse to ignore someone's opinion and very often righteous outrage at the product they purchased that keeps getting changed into something worse every xpac or patch.

We're supposed to go crawling hat in hand to these mooks, when we're the people that pay their salaries? WE are the customers, which they'd be forced to remember if they had to refund their shitty products at all like other products do when they're lousy.

Blizz gets away with it though, by way of a near-monopoly on the MMORPG market and a sub-based model. And many Stockholm Syndrome addicts that they know with lap up anything Blizz tosses their way.

[Gaidax]

Yes Guidax because we wouldn't want to offend their virgin ears, would we? Let's get real - that's just an excuse to ignore someone's opinion and very often righteous outrage at the product they purchased that keeps getting changed into something worse every xpac or patch.

We're supposed to go crawling hat in hand to these mooks, when we're the people that pay their salaries? WE are the customers, which they'd be forced to remember if they had to refund their shitty products at all like other products do when they're lousy.

Blizz gets away with it though, by way of a near-monopoly on the MMORPG market and a sub-based model. And many Stockholm Syndrome addicts that they know with lap up anything Blizz tosses their way.

Being a dick won't get you anywhere, you think you own them because you pay your pittance? Treat people with respect they deserve and engage in conversation like a decent human being, it works just fine.

Do you honestly think changes only happen because people say "fucking fuck WTF Blizz rage rage rage!1"?

[Jessicka]

No, people asked for a way to increase Affliction Single Target damage and Malefic Grasp was popping up in various shades or forms (or increasing Drain Life damage or increasing dot damage when you Drain Life).

Basically this is what was given... issue?

That it's a massive fanfare of a change which could have achieved the same effect with no more than numbers tuning. It's a PR exercise.

And yeah, every conversation I saw mention it, mentioned it as a replacement for Soul Effigy; which is also still the most whined about talent in the spec. But has also escaped being touched.

I am curious about the tuning they will do as Drain Soul is not doing damage it should be doing on PTR, but basically seems they heard that Affliction ST needs improvement, so well, they work on it?

But in any case, raging and screaming about how devs do not give shit about feedback is clearly dishonest, because 7.1.5 talent changes clearly show they actually do try to tackle some of the complaints like mixed ST/AoE rows for Destruction or Affliction ST or Mana Tap/Soul Harvest being shit, which in turn means they DO read feedback.

Yet nothing for the AoE/ST rows for Affliction, and the fundamental issues with Mana Tap are entirely unchanged. They change stuff, but all too often they don't seem to understand what it is they're actually trying to achieve with the fix; or just have entirely different ideas on what the problem is: See Conflagrate/Shadowburn.

[Caolela]

Being a dick won't get you anywhere, you think you own them because you pay your pittance? Treat people with respect they deserve and engage in conversation like a decent human being, it works just fine.

Nothing wrong with being respectful in a convo, but there are times when they need to be enlightened in no uncertain terms. Most of them are young enough, they'll get over it. :P

Yes that's usually the way it goes - the customer tells the seller what they want or don't want and how much they'll pay, except of course when you've already spent your "pittance" and can't continue using the product unless you keep paying.

Nick racket if you can get it.

[Deleted]

snip

Doesn't work - good old thing that we said won't be in the game is back on a stage. Where are consistent changes here? snip

I'm confused... Weren't you asking for Embers to come back? Isn't that also a "good old thing that we said won't be in the game"? Would giving Embers back then be a consistent change?

[Gaidax]

I think you miss the main thing here...

They do change stuff that people do not like or provided feedback on, so saying they don't listen is a clear hogwash.

PR exercise? Don't be pathetic. Because you do not like the way they did change does not mean that anything there is PR exercise.

It is work in progress and it is clearly based on feedback you and others have given, you don't like result? Give a decent, human being feedback and don't try to threaten/shame or rage devs into submission, it is just disgusting really.

- - - Updated - - -

Nothing wrong with being respectful in a convo, but there are times when they need to be enlightened in no uncertain terms. Most of them are young enough, they'll get over it. :P

No they don't, really they don't. You don't do that, end of story.

Why? Because basic respect and not being pathetic yourself really. Do as I say because I pay you is a small fry argument, it will work on CSR rep in your cable company, but this is not the case.


Is it that hard to keep providing calm and respectful feedback? Do you really have to mix in nonsense into it?

[Duckz0rs]

Yes that's my point right now I can spec BOTH RE and Eradication, but after 7.1.5 I'll be forced to pick either one and settle for Soul Harvest on the next row for ST, so while the allround build improves, the specialized one suffers.

That's a case of "careful what you wish for, because you just might get it" though. Loads of people were complaining since beta that we have to choose between being decent at AoE or decent at ST. This is a direct implementation of that feedback and now people are angry that Blizzard listened, because an often used build isn't available anymore.

Asking for feedback from gamers invariably results in a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. If they didn't do this they don't listen to feedback, if they do this they're stupid and didn't think about the feedback given. They can't win.

Yes that's usually the way it goes - the customer tells the seller what they want or don't want and how much they'll pay, except of course when you've already spent your "pittance" and can't continue using the product unless you keep paying.

Except that with a company of this size you shouldn't compare it to someone hand-crafting items for a small audience. They're literally catering to millions, so it's an extremely unfair comparison. They can't tailor their product to each individual customers needs like that.

It's more like a large supermarket chain; you buy what's on the shelves or you don't. Try going to your local supermarket, screaming at them that all their bread tastes like "fucking shit" and that they should hand-tailor it to your needs after you've eaten it. How do you think they'd respond?