Swarming Plaguehive for Retri

[Basty]

Hi!

I just noticed on Ask Mr. Robot that best trinket by far has become Swarming Plaguehive (Caster trinket with haste and socket + dot). I was sceptical and since I'm using AMR suggestion I also use FCM + Spiked Counterweight.

So I ran Simcraft and simmed FCM + SC and got 330k dps. Then I simmed FCM + Hunger of the Pack and got 335k dps.
AMR shows more dps with FCM + SC.

So I went in game and tested on dummy. I did only short testing (roughly 30 sec - duration of Crusade) and the FCM + SC came ahead for almost 40k. So I guess AMR was not wrong.

Now my question is... if AMR was right (at least in my case) for FCM + SC is it also right for Swarming Plaguehive? Shall we roll on it and make casters mad? Sadly we cant coin it since its not on our loot table.

Thanks for any input.

[Kanegasi]

With Exorcism gone, I don't think we even have any damaging spells. I've noticed no change in my actions when I'm silenced. What would the trinket proc off of? SoV burst?

[Iphie]

Procs of quite a few things actually, before I noticed it procs of spells I used it and it was up mostly on ICD so I can say it works, but I would not dare say anything about how it compares to other trinkets.

[Deleted]

I assume it works like the Devilsaur Shock-Baton does and can be triggered by Judgement and Blade of Wrath (which is gone soon).

[Zabannith]

Here are the latest trinket sims
https://simc.derig.org/static/output/ft.html

[sexybeast]

fcm and SP are the highest simming trinkets, that's until they fix SP (if they do even bother) to be for ranged classes only.

[Deleted]

Long story short: It is BiS and proccs very well, yes. Go for it and use it!

[Pizzaghost]

I noticed that the 825 versions of spike counterweight and mark of dargrul are not included. Where do they stack up? I am debating whether to swap my 850 ravaged seed pod for either of the 2 825 versions.

[stolker]

some facts:

- ask mr robot trinket suggestions are garbage. I have various item levels of most trinkets in my bank by now, and I've tested and simmed them manually extensively. ask mr. robots suggestions are pretty much 100% wrong, at least for me. by the way, extensively testing doesn't mean doing a single 5 min dummy run or something, if you're doing that and then coming here and posting 'oh my personal tests disagree with xy' you're dumb as shit as well, that's way too little sample size. I have spent some afternoons on this testing
- stop linking 'trinket sim' charts, that is completely retarded and not how it works. trinket usefulness will wobble around a ton based on your current gear. especially with varying crit and haste amounts on your char. remember that sims like the current simulationcraft charts are run with 865 gear, and most players are above or below that level of gear, not exactly at it - and even then you don't have that exact gear.

close to just quitting this forum, the amount of mind boggingly bad advice posted here by people with thousands of posts is utterly demotivating to any discussion.

[Zoopercat]

@stolker do you have the sims on AMR that you think are wrong. I'd like to look into those.

For the record, I've spent the past couple of weeks comparing sims of our trinkets to actual logs to make sure they are all simming correctly. They are in excellent shape right now and we only had to tweak a couple assumptions on some trinkets. For example, Twisting wind cyclones average about 80% hits on bosses based on logs, so we updated for that.

[stolker]

@stolker do you have the sims on AMR that you think are wrong. I'd like to look into those.

For the record, I've spent the past couple of weeks comparing sims of our trinkets to actual logs to make sure they are all simming correctly. They are in excellent shape right now and we only had to tweak a couple assumptions on some trinkets. For example, Twisting wind cyclones average about 80% hits on bosses based on logs, so we updated for that.

Just try spiked counterweight vs ursocs rending paw, or something like that, where AMR suggests spiked counterweight is better. In actual gameplay it's so much worse it's not funny. Even funnier, AMR suggests I actually unequip my on-use best in slot trinket (apart from ilvl, of course, ilvl 850 faulty countermeasure) and equip a 840 spiked counterweight so I have two proc trinkets. That would sim about 20k DPS lower in simcraft on my character, and in practical testing (some mythic+ runs and lots of puppetry) results are much, much worse. SC vs (855 + socket) rending paw sims about 10k worse for me while AMR suggests it's a 5k DPS increase, and again in practice SC is actually a lot worse (since I'm playing imperfectly, of course, the differences are scaled).

edit: although I admit this could just be a misunderstanding what the suggestions mean? Are they really supposed to mean 'swap out out this and put that in, and you'll potentially get the shown DPS improvement'? Or is it more like 'if you assemble all the gear upgrades shown in the optimizer, this particular swap will contribute the following amount of DPS improvement"?

[Zoopercat]

Stolker, what data is making you think Ursoc's paw is better? (Not being a jerk, I definitely want to see the data that lead you to this, or lead a guide to this). It looks like spiked counterweight really is better.

I did some double checking, here's what I found:

Ursoc's rending paw does between 1.2% and 1.5% of total damage in the logs I found (look for rend flesh). Example logs:
-- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=10
-- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=15

Spiked counterweight does between 1.8% and 3% of total damage in the logs I found (look for brutal haymaker). Example logs:
-- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=13
-- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=21

Now, to compare how much extra damage you get from the stats on each trinket, I looked at 2 trinket reports.

1. A report that isolates the proc, looking only at the proc and NOT including the stats. This shows you how much damage the procs account for. Spiked counterweight gets about 8k more DPS from the proc. http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...adae632653a34b

2. A report the INCLUDES the stats. This lets me see how much gain I get from the previous report. http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...5a7e03095d6054

Spiked counterweight's haste gets an extra 6-7k DPS. Ursoc's rending paw gets about 8,000 extra DPS. So as you can see, the extra strength from Ursoc's rending paw isn't enough to make up for the difference.

I hope that helps. And if you see something different or have a different insight to share, please do. I like looking into these things so I can confirm our simulator matches up to the game, or if there is a bug, find it and fix it asap. I'll also hit up mserrano who does a lot of TC and run this past him for feedback.


As for the unequip BiS suggestion, I'll need your character info for that, along with the export string you're using to get that suggestion. I'll dig into it and do some more comparisons.

[Basty]

Zoopercat Can you please check my logs here: warcraftlogs.com/reports/8q2bLJgnja4Q1rVG/ (cant post links)

I love AMR and I use it (subscriber) but after Thete posted trinket rankings on his youtube channel I did some testing on my own.
My trinkets:
-Faulty Countermeasure 840
-Spiked Counterweight 825
-Hunger of the Pack 840
-Chrono Shard 845

I did some testing and I also switched somewhere to Virtual blade as my crit goes to 27% with hunger of the pack.

I always used FCM + other trinkets combo.

It seemed to me that Hunger of the pack indeed pulled up more damage. 2nd was chrono shard.

It was 5 min fight on target dummy from behind so there should be no parry in logs.

My profile on AMR: askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/draenor/b%C3%A1sty (cant post links)


Thanks.

[furyaus]

Is this not procing for Ret paladins now?

Edit: nvm i see its procing off Wake of Ashes.

[Lorelya]

Here are the latest trinket sims
https://simc.derig.org/static/output/ft.html

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Yu...A=w1200-h630-p

I believe is the most up to date trinket list.

[MrSchmuders]

That sim was used with SimC 710-01. The ret pally APL with 01 was not quite finished yet, didnt register blessing of might proccing the SPH. With the updated SimC 710-02, the trinket ranks higher because blessing of might is properly proccing the trinket in sims.

[Deleted]

MrSchmuders gave first good info about trinkets in this topic - rest is guessing. Here is most actual trinket list:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Yu...A=w1200-h630-p

Basically, Swarming plaguehive is one of best trinkets because its very solid and super easy to get. Sure, its close to 880+ horn and memento, but those are much harder to get 880+.

It does not proc (same like other caster trinkets) from our attacks, both melee and ranged.

It CAN proc from Wake of Ashes - both hit and ticks got separate proc chance.

Most important, it CAN activate from BoM procs. Every bom proc, for example 30%BoM hit from crusader strike - is a spell that hit boss which got chance to activate caster trinkets.


MOST important thing - trinket will proc from BoM only if u BoM Yourself.