7.1.5: Fire completely wrecked

[Torian kel]

But .. shadow priests are garbage and mages are completely broken someone said in trade chat ?

[BiggestNoob]

Well there was 1 mage, unsure if it was fire.

But yeah. Mages aren't good enough to bring to a comp stack. Warlocks are though, surprise surprise.

I also love how when presented with evidence that fire's logs put it down below average people then pivot to "well the real problem is that it's overrepresented". It's overrepresented because nobody can fucking switch specs and because fire isn't as gear dependent as arcane and frost wasn't strong at launch. We knew arcane was going to outscale fire in NH even if NT spam was fixed, which would've given plenty of time to play until NH as fire then switch, but arcane got buffed and is now better than fire much earlier. Regardless, representation is not something that should be determining nerfs/buffs. Whatever class is the most played -- nerf it. Makes sense, right? Except no, that's how you make people quit. Let people play what they want. Nobody is forced to pick fire, and it's not even the best option which is why everyone is moving away from it especially if they don't have 2 BiS legendaries.

When Blizzard nerfed demo because it was overrepresented, it went from #1 by a huge margin to #2. Fire's below average. It's not something that needs a heavy handed nerf for any reason. It needed buffs if anything, and maybe a new talent that lets us deal with split targets.

Fire is not getting "nerfed" because numbers have not been tweaked yet on the PTR. It is getting mechanical changes that aren't needed and lots of mages are hating the changes. Imagine if Fulmination and Lava Surge are gone and now your Mastery is what will dictate your Lava Burst damage. gg

Except it is. Number tweaks can't compensate, and the loss of high mastery states makes us worse at AoE in a way that can't be compensated for, as it changes our scaling dramatically.

It's a basic math problem.

[MashTactics]

I'm holding out faith that they're going to fix this.

Mostly because I'm only artifact level 3 on my mage, and cannot realistically get enough AP for a spec switch to be viable. Also, I've got nearly 11k crit that I've got nothing else to do with.

[Zenfoldor]

I've been looking at the changes. Theme seems to be:

1. Require different rotation/spells to do solid aoe dps(currently the single target rotation is also the multi-target rotation)
2. Require us to change talents regularly to stay competitive
3. Nerf damage inside of burst, buff damage outside of burst
4. Nerf movement/qol/utility to bring it in line with other classes

Why this feels bad:

1. I feel locked into both this spec/class even though it is being significantly transformed
2. Mid expansion, mid patch, mid tier
3. Feel this spec has over-estimated dps by developers because of available legendaries and most mages don't have and over-representation
4. Feel that word of mouth from other classes along with hard data has been considered when making the changes

Sorry if that sounds like whining to the ill informed, they are legitimate concerns.

[Tinary]

Stop the QQ, if you really love the spec/class, you will still play it. True burners will stay true and still be fire. It aint as bad as the MoP combustion changes where we had to endure the change in our burst almost every patch.

[Deleted]

This is the most glorious thread i have seen in a long time! All these mages crying about one of their specs getting nerfed. HAHAHAHA try playing an elemental shaman and being absolute bottom tier caster at the beginning of EVERY expansion.

Could've just gone a strong spec like enhancement I guess....

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Just the typical whiny Warlock baby.

The players of that class have been like this since classic and nothing has changed.


I mean it's easy to know what kind of person you're talking to when that person goes to a different classes forums just to behave like a dick, with nothing worthwhile to add to any discussion. Pathetic.

Remember back in Vanilla when fear was 30 something seconds and didn't break on damage? I 'member. Warlocks were fucked then too, amirite?

But yeah, the guy I replied to just seems to want to play a broken class and/or have other classes destroyed so he can feel better.

[Mirishka]

How I enjoy "the sky is falling'' threads

Pretty much. "Oh noess!! Its teh furst build of PT we r nerfed n2 ground!!!"

[Deleted]

I never said warlocks have never been good. But Blizzard manages to fuck us up more. My point was, name a time when mages were just awful.... having trouble? I'll help you out. Never. Mages are Blizzard's baby and they brought you in check for once. Warlocks have been claiming they're gonna unsub since the start of the expac, mages get a couple tweaks and start the same crap. I'm not saying either extreme threat of quitting is warranted, but the level of buttfucked warlocks have gotten is unreal, so I just find it funny when a mage claims the same level of unfairness when they are still practically good at everything... aoe, ST, mobility, etc.

Warlocks had a minor issue early in the expansion, in that their rampup time due to 0 shards was horrendously long. That was fixed quite quickly. Their secondary concern was the same as spriests was, that their gear scaling is seemingly very strong. So as people have gotten more gear, warlocks have very steadily climbed and (for raids) are now actually a top tier class. Coincidentally, that same scaling issue is the very same one that fire has been struggling with every single expansion before legion. I know you're attached to your class and think that everyone has it better but I play both mage and warlock and my feeling is that right now, on live, warlocks are in a better place.

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Yeah Warlocks are always bad. They're actually good right now, but they were really bad in WoD. We can prove this by checking the logs:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8#dataset=99
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7#dataset=99
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6#dataset=99

Definitive proof that they were shit in WoD. You've seen it here folks.

Curious what those numbers actually represent since it says last 2 weeks. For progression the picture was somewhat different though. Fire was broken as fuuuck in BRF though, because of double combustion and bosses like tho'gar and hans/franz where you were basically using a quad damage buff.

Other than that, I know for a fact that arcane mages weren't doing 6x the damage of BM hunters during progression of Mythic Iron Reaver, but I didn't stick around for the last 6 something months of HFC to see what actually went down during that time.

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Which lets be honest is a horrible metric to be tuning by. " It's too fun, no one is playing anything else. We better nerf it before everyone else figures it out ".

Problem with that is you get horrible over-saturation of fire mages, it happened back in vanilla when some 20% of the population played rogue, which was awesome while leveling until you hit group content and were persona non grata because everyone and their mom already had as many rogues as they could stomach in their groups.

[Volitar]

This is the most glorious thread i have seen in a long time! All these mages crying about one of their specs getting nerfed. HAHAHAHA try playing an elemental shaman and being absolute bottom tier caster at the beginning of EVERY expansion.

You act like its our fault you play a shit spec.

[Deleted]

Oh yeah cause the 6k parses from the other 2 specs are the ones making fire win by a mile lmao, I was just comparing arcane/frost to fire. If you don't understand why blizzard is tuning down fire and bringing up arcane/frost you should get yourself checked.

Every mage plays fire it seems. Shadowpriests don't make up the entirety of the class though, because holy and disc are both also viable and have been for this entire expansion.

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I totally agree with that, the problem is everyone went fire because it was the best spec, not because it was the one they enjoy the most and in the specific case I believe they should give you some kind of way to put AP in the spec you want to play. My whole point is that fire is way too represented and it shouldn't be the case.

I've played fire 3 expansions straight with a break to frost for a short while during HM progress and arcane for the first 3 mythic kills in HFC. Apart from that I've been fire from mop into legion. I picked fire because I enjoyed the playstyle and rather dislike the elemental and familiar that came tacked on with frost/arcane. It didn't make the decision harder that both frost and arcane were shit-tier for the start of the expansion, but if fire had frosts damage I would've still played fire.

[deadman1]

This is the most glorious thread i have seen in a long time! All these mages crying about one of their specs getting nerfed. HAHAHAHA try playing an elemental shaman and being absolute bottom tier caster at the beginning of EVERY expansion.

The thing is, you intentionally invested in a poor spec, I didn't, mine got changed.

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Pretty much. "Oh noess!! Its teh furst build of PT we r nerfed n2 ground!!!"

Yeah it's almost like blizzard has a record of overnerfing things. Basically always, since forever.

Because blizz didn't murder outlaw and unholy.

[Armourboy]

Problem with that is you get horrible over-saturation of fire mages, it happened back in vanilla when some 20% of the population played rogue, which was awesome while leveling until you hit group content and were persona non grata because everyone and their mom already had as many rogues as they could stomach in their groups.

Then make the other specs more enjoyable to play. If you have a couple of specs that are fun, and the rest that aren't, making them all bad isn't the solution. I guess it is one, but then you sit around wondering where your players went.

[Deleted]

Spec not top 3 anymore, guess the spec is 100% dead then



Welcome to life of Unholy/Frost DKs

These mage tears ;')

[Deleted]

The stupid thing is: they will make fire mages overpowered again in the coming weeks. They were never weak and they will never be. Perhaps for a few days, not after numbers tuning.

And i suppose mages will be the first to get overbuffed. Just look at the attention of blues, they're never gonna make their favourite class mediocre or even bad.

[Wenoxar]

Imagine if they reverted all PTR changes.

Currently we are strong in dungeons (living bomb, ignite spreading) and weak on pure single target.

What I'd like to see is, for example:
- Pyroblast +15% dmg buff
- Ignite loses 15% dmg each time it spreads

[Deleted]

Imagine if they reverted all PTR changes.

Currently we are strong in dungeons (living bomb, ignite spreading) and weak on pure single target.

What I'd like to see is, for example:
- Pyroblast +15% dmg buff
- Ignite loses 15% dmg each time it spreads

This is actually a good idea. It would also make flamestrike more clearly the aoe alternative.

[deadman1]

Spec not top 3 anymore, guess the spec is 100% dead then

Welcome to life of Unholy/Frost DKs

These mage tears ;')

The "I don't know how to read logs" crowd is back at it again.

Fire is 9th or worse place DPS on average before nerfs. Good job being ignorant.

inb4 linking overall dps at the 10th percentile and acting like it's law.

[Deleted]

Fire is 9th or worse place DPS on average before nerfs.

Yep, this is what happens when a spec becomes too popular. It is now largely irrelevant WHY everyone switched to Fire mage. Blizz will make sure that after the 7.1.5 changes nobody wants to switch to Fire - probably the exact opposite.

[Deleted]

Yep, this is what happens when a spec becomes too popular. It is now largely irrelevant WHY everyone switched to Fire mage. Blizz will make sure that after the 7.1.5 changes nobody wants to switch to Fire - probably the exact opposite.

No matter how often people say this merely is PTR's first iteration and that the changes are only mechanical, people will still believe it's the end of fire.

So be it.

[KyyaL]

No matter how often people say this merely is PTR's first iteration and that the changes are only mechanical, people will still believe it's the end of fire.

So be it.

Demo warlocks before HFC patch would like to say hi.