I've never seen a more balanced era than WotLK

[Auberdeen]

mana burn mana burn mana burn mana burn mana burn...kill it with fire

i loved the sound mana burn made ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

[Druitz]

Let me guess, you played an OP spec and enjoyed 2 shotting people easily?

Wotlk was the most imbalanced era of PvP even when you exclude DKs from the list, Mages could literally kill anyone without casting a single Frostbolt (Ice Lance spam + insane mobility + every PvP tool put in Frost spec), rogues were countering 90% of casters, paladins dealing insane damage while having insane survival cds and warriors stacking ARP over str to cleave through your armor like nothing.

And lets not forget Chimera Shot insanity that lasted for months before getting nerfed but then Explosive Shot got buffed in same patch and everyone switched to Survival to enjoy the FOTM.

What? xD You have rly 0 fucking idea whata re you talking about. Mages had no dmg with icelance in wotlk. it was rly "casting" mage expansion. The only sources of dmg was frostbolt and frostfire bolts and without stun-lock/deep mage had no way to cast vs a lot of comps in 3s.

Wrong. WotLK - was era of immortal Paladins and DKs in PVP and era of useless Shamans and Druids in PVE (due to ARP being useless for them).

ARP was main stat for feral druid - you have no idea about wotlk pve

Neither PvE or PvP will be balanced until they completely separate the two. Which should have been done in TBC.

How many PvE nefs have we seen from salty PvPers.

True, this should be done long time ago.


There were and never will be balanced expansion. Wotlk was great, overall gameplay was fast, one mistake could have killed you, there were no "World of Warcraft: Need For Speed" - if you know what i mean. Pve offparts were not good = that's true.

Overall gameplay was great rly. There were a lot of comps capable of top ranks. War/pal, lock/shamn, mm/disc and much more.

Someone said rdruid were op. When? not in s7/s8. The only overpowered thing was poly/hex immune but without barkskin druid was dead in seconds - without any way of escape. Also without defensive/offensive dispel playing with rdruid was harder. Hpala and disc were much better classes.

[WowIsDead64]

ARP was main stat for feral druid - you have no idea about wotlk pve

Yeah, Shamans and Paladins, as ARP was useless for physical/magic hybrids. It was really terrible, when gear from Naxx had actually better stats, than gear from Ulduar and even later raids. As I already said in the past, ARP was implemented, cuz Blizzard messed up with xpack stat budget due to implementing HMs in Ulduar, that weren't initially planned to be implemented, so they tried to shift players' attention from main stats, that reached their caps, towards this crutch, called ARP. But Blizzard had to implement def debuff in ICC anyway. And it was really funny, when they gave us some silly justifications about why ARP was removed - something like "it's too complex to understand blah blah blah". And situation was simple - ARP played it's role and was removed then. But unfortunately messing up with stat budget and ARP were just a beginning of chain of critical mistakes, GC and his team made in Cata, that leaded us to MOP and then WOD and Legion.

[Mohangz]

season 7 and early season 8 wotlk was the best this game has ever been tbh but at the end of season 8 if you were a pve hero some classes had significant advantages with haste stacking and armor pen. Frost mage,Arms warrior and Sub rogue with pve gear was a totally different class

[Pantelija]

What? xD You have rly 0 fucking idea whata re you talking about. Mages had no dmg with icelance in wotlk. it was rly "casting" mage expansion. The only sources of dmg was frostbolt and frostfire bolts and without stun-lock/deep mage had no way to cast vs a lot of comps in 3s.



ARP was main stat for feral druid - you have no idea about wotlk pve

You have no clue what you are talking about, Frost burst came from Icelances and why the hell would Feral Druid want ARP when Bleeds IGNORE armor? Stop embarassing yourself.

[Coffeh]

Heh, look I loved Wrath but the pvp was nowhere near balanced. Rogues would stunlock me 100-0 constantly. Then I made a resto druid and it literally took the entire enemy team to kill me. But more important was the fact the game was FUN. Wintergrasp was fun. The classes had so many more and cooler abilities. They were so much more fun to play than they are now.

[Skalm]

PvP was perfect, in arenas you could find any combo, any class, any spec. They were all awesome in a way or another.
If you ever felt weak, there was surely a way to customize your gaming to rock the situations.
With any class, with any spec, you just had to find the best team to rule arenas.

PvP was hardcore, you could feel the BOOM. HP bars were going up and down like crazy.
Healers were real healers.
Your impact in bgs were impressive, hps was higher than dps, you were loved and carried like an healer should be... but now healing has been tremendously weakened since then. Guess why there are so few healers atm?

CC wasnt so oppressive. Casting classes were more free and not everyone had something to fucking stop you.

Please BLIZZARD bring back that gaming time experience. PvP never felt better since then.

LOL!

So balanced that you could play a DK in Arena and literally use just a /castrandom macro and get to 1800-2000 rating easily? Yeah, I would call that balanced.

Yeah.... Youtube Video

At least they did remove the ability to use /castrandom after this video surfaced, but that didn't do anything for the complete unbalanced mess DK was.

[Enclave]

PvP is only "balanced" because its a watered down version of its glory times
There is no uniqueness in classes so every combo can work every melee class is just massive dmg, tanky and mobile(except rogues who are not viable because of this reason), every caster is just massive burst and mobile or massive dot dmg and tanky

[lolpve]

wotlk pvp was awful apart from season 7. I doubt most people here even played competitively back then.

Season 5 totally ruined by DKs, paladins and TnT huntards. The ladders haven't been so unbalanced before or since.
Season 6 ruined by prot paladins, arcane mages, ret paladins, DKs still
Season 7 was ok
Season 8 ruined by overpowered casters and prot warriors

People only have nostalgia for wotlk because RMP was one of the strongest comps while also having a very high skillcap to play. But if you take RMP out of the equation wotlk was very broken.

[Druitz]

You have no clue what you are talking about, Frost burst came from Icelances and why the hell would Feral Druid want ARP when Bleeds IGNORE armor? Stop embarassing yourself.

Wotlk forst mage burst dmg come from 2x frostbolt + frostfire (if you got proc) or 2x frostbolt + icelance during deep freeze. That was standard " rotation".

Just go and check some wotlk movies. Icelanes crit for about 3-3.5k and frostbolt crit for 6k+. Yes, if you can't manage to cast you can cast icelances if you got Fingers of Frost but you will NEVER kill anyone spamming icelanes like it was in CATA not WOTLK.

You can check both retail and Arena-Tournament movies (the only server where retail glads played a lot - like Flyn, Fnoberz, Reckfull, Hydra etc).

Feral dmg was something like melee > rip/shred > rake > fb. Even during naxx and ulduar (that was hard to get enough armor pene) ferals were gearing for coft armor pene cap and on s8 during ICC ferals had 100% arp because more than half feral dmg was dmg that don't ignore armor. And for pvp arp was also good but as i remember 55-60% was max.

If you don't belive just search for feral guides . Old ones are for gearing soft cap and 3.3.5 are for 100% arp.


Stop embarassing yourself

[Uoyredrum]

You have no clue what you are talking about, Frost burst came from Icelances and why the hell would Feral Druid want ARP when Bleeds IGNORE armor? Stop embarassing yourself.

He's right and you have no clue what you're talking about. Warriors, combat rogues and ferals all stacked ArP in wotlk.

[Deficineiron]

It was certainly possible to get creative with PvE gear... back in WOTLK I lost quite a few 2v2 matches to a Feral Druid who would put on a few Frost Resist pieces to try and get some of my Mage's burst to miss.

Engineering was also usable in PvP, at least during the first season. Hand-rockets did sick burst (upwards of 15% of the target's HP) and Priests were using Rocket Boots to run all the way from their pillar, to your side of the map, and then connect a Psychic Scream on your team. Another thing was that playing offensive as a healer was fun because it caused huge pressure but would also OOM you very fast so there was an element of risk-reward to making kill attempts.

I also distinctly remember the best Rogue trinket for PvP being a Darkmoon Faire card, and all the discussions about whether hybrid builds were better than putting 41 talent points in the same tree for the comp that you were playing.

I don't know if I could call WotLK PvP more balanced but it was definitely more exciting. That was before WoW went full participation award.

assume you mean arena but engineering more generally was just a ton of fun for bg's, even leveling. it definitely rewarded creative use and effort. goblin sapper charge, at its attain level, was a major damage boost in its level bracket and still very effective into 30-39 and to a lesser degree 40-49. ( bet i made thousands of them). some items (the mortar trinket, and The Big One) had either limited targeting area or very long cast timers but were very effective. trinket net caster was entertaining at worst. discombobulator ray was under-appreciated. mind control helmet didnt work too often but was very amusing when it did on an EFC in wsg. rocket boots were almost essential in wsg. rocket Helmet, with an early attain by gnome eng (want to say one bracket lower), was a major stamina boost + entertaining utility once again in WSG. exploding sheep had its moments in 10-19. proper use of dynamite/grenades/bombs situationally was a great utility skill.

arcane bomb's cast timer made it tricky in small bg pvp.

leveling engineering in bg's was as much fun as I had in any part of the game.

the above I did mostly in late WOTLK and early pre-4.1 cat.

[Pantelija]

He's right and you have no clue what you're talking about. Warriors, combat rogues and ferals all stacked ArP in wotlk.

He is talking nonsense and half-truths, if you stacked ARP in Wotlk as feral whole guild would laugh at you.

[RobertMugabe]

Sry, but no. S8 was seriously unbalanced.

MoP was easily the most balanced xpac (still quite unbalanced).

[Uoyredrum]

He is talking nonsense and half-truths, if you stacked ARP in Wotlk as feral whole guild would laugh at you.

If you didn't stack ArP they would kick you out of the raid for doing shitty dps and not knowing your class very well. During ICC if your ArP was above a certain amount, it was your best stat up until the cap (1400 I think it was?). This was the same for warriors and combat rogues. There is a very good reason why trinkets like DBW, Mjolnir Runestone, NES, etc. were so sought after. It's also the reason executioner was the best enchant for feral until they hit ArP cap. It's also why at a certain point ArP food was the best. The bottom line is that if you didn't have much ArP, it was your worst stat. If you had over a certain amount, it was better than Agi up till the cap.

So I'm sorry but you literally have no idea what you're talking about. As someone who did all of heroic when it was current during ICC, you are flat out, 100% wrong. Period.

[voidillusion]

If you didn't stack ArP they would kick you out of the raid for doing shitty dps and not knowing your class very well. During ICC if your ArP was above a certain amount, it was your best stat up until the cap (1400 I think it was?). This was the same for warriors and combat rogues. There is a very good reason why trinkets like DBW, Mjolnir Runestone, NES, etc. were so sought after. It's also the reason executioner was the best enchant for feral until they hit ArP cap. It's also why at a certain point ArP food was the best. The bottom line is that if you didn't have much ArP, it was your worst stat. If you had over a certain amount, it was better than Agi up till the cap.

So I'm sorry but you literally have no idea what you're talking about. As someone who did all of heroic when it was current during ICC, you are flat out, 100% wrong. Period.

And the reason is that non-bleed dmg made up for the vast majority of you dps in case someone's wondering, white dmg particulary was around the 50% figure or more if i recall correctly, wich i think i do.

[shaunika123]

WotLK had balanced PvP? Then we must have played different versions of the expansion. If you weren't Arms, Discipline, Subtlety, FrostM, FrostDK, Unholy or RestoD you just didn't stand a chance, unless you only played random normal bgs.

or
ele shaman
or warlock(both affli and destro)
or prot warrior
or prot pala
or enhance shaman
or BM hunter
or holy pala
or mutilate rogue
or shadow priest
etc

almost every single spec had a rank1 viable comp in the game

and it's ironic that the 2 most op class/specs (ele shaman and aff/dest warlock) didnt even make your list,
did you even play wotlk?
also assa rogues were mostly better than sub sub only really picked up in s8, and even then some comps used assa rogues

[Wingspan]

WotLK was a lot of things, but "balanced" was not one of them.


Ret and Prot Paladins were stupid OP for nearly the whole expansion... DKs too (although I can't remember which specs).


There was a fair share of over-nerfing going on too. Like BM Hunters, who were on the crazy powerful side when the expansion opened and were borderline-horrible by the end of it.


EVERY expansion has been considered horrible (balance-wise) during the time it was being played... and EVERY expansion has been blamed for having too much CC and too many Interrupts (literally all of them).


Even though it has always been like this though, I think the general mechanics changes in Legion and the fact that re-rolling now requires a much bigger commitment, has kind of made it hard for people to justify a class change when they might have done so in the past. So some people feel trapped, useless, and angry.

[TheFirstOnes]

Even though the alliance (AKA my faction) can't win a fucking BG right now, it's still more balanced than WoTLK.

Atleast we do win still when we plan. In Wrath, I got 1 shot by a DK.

So, in my eyes, it's not balanced. However, it's your opinion, and I respect that.

- - - Updated - - -

or
ele shaman
or warlock(both affli and destro)
or prot warrior
or prot pala
or enhance shaman
or BM hunter
or holy pala
or mutilate rogue
or shadow priest
etc

almost every single spec had a rank1 viable comp in the game

and it's ironic that the 2 most op class/specs (ele shaman and aff/dest warlock) didnt even make your list,
did you even play wotlk?
also assa rogues were mostly better than sub sub only really picked up in s8, and even then some comps used assa rogues

Ya know, that's only his opinion on the balanced toward wrath. You don't have to bash on him all cause he sees things differently from you.

Infact, I thought all the classes from WoTLK were either JUST balanced, or too fucked just to even compare with in terms of duels and so forth. :/

[Vorality]

Imo, most balanced was at the end of Mists, and PvP actually isn't too bad right now besides WW Monks being able to one shot you in 1-3 seconds. Wotlk had a lot of good things about it, but melee classes were just insane compared to others, especially with armor penetration...and obviously the use of some OP PvE gear.