We need to get rid of boring RNG.

[Deleted]

Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those RNG haters but come on, am I the only one getting tired of RNG procs and abilities with 0 player involvement? I'm mostly talking about assasination. Bag of tricks and Blood of the Assasinated are a HUGE burst boost but it just doesn't feel satisfying having 0 control over it. Especialy Bag of Tricks is just retarded. Our strongest aoe ability (BY FAR) is just a random proc wow how awesome is that. Why couldn't they just give us a real AOE ability and have it reset with this trait? Just an AOE combo point spender on a CD (20sec or more) which does exactly what Poison Bomb does. The trait could just make the ability reset and cost no CP (rng after using envenom exactly like it is now). Anyway you get the feeling, something that actually gets you involved instead of having it proc on the last trash mob.

I'm just sad because I was rooting so hard for assasination to get a poison bomb ability but I could never imagine it being a random proc like that..

[Reavyn]

It's actually part of the reason why I'm thinking of switching mains. Don't get me wrong. I still love the class, but it feels like there is too much RNG. That's not even talking about an entire spec revolving around being a devout follower of RNGezus, requiring daily sacrifices of a dozen virgins to be able to do well.

[skindown]

Well, you do just fine in AoE as assassination, just put Subterfuge and have fun

It's supposed to be a complement, not our main source of AoE damage lol

As of Blood of the Assassinated, it will get better once the 7.1.5 changes go live

[Reavyn]

Well, you do just fine in AoE as assassination, just put Subterfuge and have fun

Kinda hard to have fun with Sub when you utterly despise how the spec plays :P

It's supposed to be a complement, not our main source of AoE damage lol

As of Blood of the Assassinated, it will get better once the 7.1.5 changes go live

Except when you are dealing with AoE content that dies or needs to die quickly, it's not complementary damage, it is required damage (unless you or your group outgears said content). Also, 7.1.5 changes are not reliable for now.

Personally, I don't understand the entire concept of RNG to do damage. Why? Do people actually find it fun to have skills that are completely outside of their control? Are they afraid people might run away if they have to have 6 or 7 whole buttons to push instead of 5? Hell, I'd prefer to have more buttons to push. Some specs I can't even play anymore because they are so mindnumbingly boring (looking at you Ret pally and Frost DK).

[Deleted]

Well, you do just fine in AoE as assassination, just put Subterfuge and have fun

It's supposed to be a complement, not our main source of AoE damage lol

As of Blood of the Assassinated, it will get better once the 7.1.5 changes go live

I'm not talking about damage here. And no, our aoe is garbage if the trash dies fast without bag of tricks proc. This trait does almost the same damage as a full fists of fury cast (the hardest hitting monk aoe ability) so I don't know how it's ok to be RNG. Why can't we just for once agree that such abilities should not be RNG with 0 control. If we just accept this shit again and again blizzard will keep doing it. I mean look at Outlaw for fucks sake. Is roll the bones fine? Wtf were they smoking when they implemented it like that?

[ymirsson]

I do thnk RtB is more fine then Bag o Tricks or CPs on a 20% for sub. And Bag o Tricks surely fucks up any semblance of burst AoE for assa

[Deleted]

I honestly think that gambling is something a rogue does and they find it part of the class fantasy. Don't want to be mean but I don't think they will redesing that. Sorry to say but you will have to accept that as part of the class. It's like one of those things do damage and be happy when it comes.

Players today don't appriciate good things happening. Procs, drops and bonus rolls, legendary chance. Everything is in numbers and everyone wants to wave their big damage meter so they feel everything is mandatory, should be controlled and get frustrated when they can't. Rogues deal good damage, depending on the type of the fight, and when those procs come in they are just a tasty ice cream coating.

[Deleted]

I honestly think that gambling is something a rogue does and they find it part of the class fantasy. Don't want to be mean but I don't think they will redesing that. Sorry to say but you will have to accept that as part of the class. It's like one of those things do damage and be happy when it comes.

Players today don't appriciate good things happening. Procs, drops and bonus rolls, legendary chance. Everything is in numbers and everyone wants to wave their big damage meter so they feel everything is mandatory, should be controlled and get frustrated when they can't. Rogues deal good damage, depending on the type of the fight, and when those procs come in they are just a tasty ice cream coating.

I don't see how gambling has to do anything with the assasination rogue fantasy though. A serious assasin leaves nothing to luck. I'm pretty sure that quote is used among many assasin characters in RPG games. Little RNG to spice things up btw, (think of wod assasination for example with blindside procs) is a GOOD thing. But when an ability does 50% of you aoe damage, then you should AT LEAST have some control over it.

Sorry if you think I'm some spoiled kid for being frustrated and not appreciate such nonsense.

[Adp]

I think some forms of RNG in dmg dealing are good like procs. It feels good to have a free pistol shot or a free dispatch every so often. RtB however, is really punishing when you consider you have to reroll it when the RnG isn't in your favor. To waste gcds never feels good to me and it's the opposite of a proc that says hey use this ability now!

[ymirsson]

I honestly think that gambling is something a rogue does and they find it part of the class fantasy. Don't want to be mean but I don't think they will redesing that. Sorry to say but you will have to accept that as part of the class. It's like one of those things do damage and be happy when it comes.

Players today don't appriciate good things happening. Procs, drops and bonus rolls, legendary chance. Everything is in numbers and everyone wants to wave their big damage meter so they feel everything is mandatory, should be controlled and get frustrated when they can't. Rogues deal good damage, depending on the type of the fight, and when those procs come in they are just a tasty ice cream coating.

The unfairness is what really irks me. Fire mages especially get lots of tools and iterations of their abilities to lessen the impact of their dependance on a single percent chance (their crit) and rogues (and most likely many other classes too) get not even acknowledgements of the inherent weaknesses of their respective proc based abilities. There is a big difference between a random stat proc of a trinket or having your artifact gold trait on a roll of a dice.

[Deleted]

A simple solution would be to increase the Procc chance (right now something like 1 PPM or so) so it proccs more often, but deals less damage, so that it becomes more sustainable.

And no, luck is not a part of the class fantasy of Assa. Luck is clearly on the Pirate side. (generally luck, expect critluck, should never be part of a specc. See Legendarys: Luck decides if you get a massive DPS increase or Orange garbage)

(Sorry for bad english, not my first language.. not eveen my 2nd -.-)

[lolpve]

I honestly think that gambling is something a rogue does and they find it part of the class fantasy. Don't want to be mean but I don't think they will redesing that. Sorry to say but you will have to accept that as part of the class.

It is? Since when? Since they decided rogues were pirates a few months ago?

Gambling has never been a part of rogue fantasy for the past decade, in fact rogues were known for being less dependent on RNG than other classes which contributed to their popularity especially in pvp. Reliable stuns, reliable CC, reliable burst, reliable defensives (jk).

I don't know why the devs need sycophants defending their fuck ups.

[Reavyn]

I think some forms of RNG in dmg dealing are good like procs. It feels good to have a free pistol shot or a free dispatch every so often. RtB however, is really punishing when you consider you have to reroll it when the RnG isn't in your favor. To waste gcds never feels good to me and it's the opposite of a proc that says hey use this ability now!

Procs like a free pistol shot are not bad, as it still allows me to choose to use it or not. For example, I use it if I am <5 CP and at 5 or 6 I make the decision to delay it untill after a finisher it to prevent loss of CP. Trinket buff procs are similar. It is still up to the player to make the most of a proc.

RNG procs that cause instant damage, are purely based on luck and require zero player interaction are simply bad design. Hell, I even find RtB less annoying (though I still hate the RNGness of it), as it still requires me to properly react. Both proc'd AoE skills from both Outlaw and Assassination are like 'Well, that just happened.', requiring zero skill/interaction on the player's part and are quite frankly the single most boring implementation of damaging skills.

[ymirsson]

Both proc'd AoE skills from both Outlaw and Assassination are like 'Well, that just happened.', requiring zero skill/interaction on the player's part and are quite frankly the single most boring implementation of damaging skills.

And sub will have the same now too! Oh the joy!

[Deleted]

And sub will have the same now too! Oh the joy!

Lmao. Literally.

[Halobob87]

I honestly think that gambling is something a rogue does and they find it part of the class fantasy. Don't want to be mean but I don't think they will redesing that. Sorry to say but you will have to accept that as part of the class. It's like one of those things do damage and be happy when it comes.

Players today don't appriciate good things happening. Procs, drops and bonus rolls, legendary chance. Everything is in numbers and everyone wants to wave their big damage meter so they feel everything is mandatory, should be controlled and get frustrated when they can't. Rogues deal good damage, depending on the type of the fight, and when those procs come in they are just a tasty ice cream coating.

Dropping a bad legendary isn't a good thing, is like dropping invincible and watching as it slowly disappear from your bags. There's way too much bad implemented rng in this exp ..

[Adp]

Procs like a free pistol shot are not bad, as it still allows me to choose to use it or not. For example, I use it if I am <5 CP and at 5 or 6 I make the decision to delay it untill after a finisher it to prevent loss of CP. Trinket buff procs are similar. It is still up to the player to make the most of a proc.

RNG procs that cause instant damage, are purely based on luck and require zero player interaction are simply bad design. Hell, I even find RtB less annoying (though I still hate the RNGness of it), as it still requires me to properly react. Both proc'd AoE skills from both Outlaw and Assassination are like 'Well, that just happened.', requiring zero skill/interaction on the player's part and are quite frankly the single most boring implementation of damaging skills.

I wonder if it would make a difference if they let the player know when your next finisher will cause the AoE with the %chance it becoming empowered based on ability usage instead of random roll.

[Reavyn]

I wonder if it would make a difference if they let the player know when your next finisher will cause the AoE with the %chance it becoming empowered based on ability usage instead of random roll.

That would in fact be cool. For Outlaw something along the lines of: When Greed procs, you will cause an effect based on the skill you use. Run Through; AoE damage as it is with the current talent (maybe minus heal). Between the Eyes: AoE stun/disorient/silence/whatever. RtB; Single buff roll does not happen.

Just spitballing here though. But any way you slice it, it would be far more interesting than a boring, random AoE passive that you cannot influence in any way, shape or form.

[skindown]

Kinda hard to have fun with Sub when you utterly despise how the spec plays :P


Except when you are dealing with AoE content that dies or needs to die quickly, it's not complementary damage, it is required damage (unless you or your group outgears said content). Also, 7.1.5 changes are not reliable for now.

Personally, I don't understand the entire concept of RNG to do damage. Why? Do people actually find it fun to have skills that are completely outside of their control? Are they afraid people might run away if they have to have 6 or 7 whole buttons to push instead of 5? Hell, I'd prefer to have more buttons to push. Some specs I can't even play anymore because they are so mindnumbingly boring (looking at you Ret pally and Frost DK).

I despise what?? O_O

I play as assassination, we are the gods of single target, you are wanting a change that would make us gods of AoE burst too, because if we're talking about AoE sustained, there isn't another melee DPS as good as we are damage-wise and utility-wise

The Rupture change is unlikely to change, as they mentioned wanting to make it linear before, so that directly affects our "friendship" with BotA, as we will be applying Ruptures more often with as many as CPs that we have at the moment ( because every Rupture, be it 1 CP or 6 CPs, will deal the same damage PER TICK )

We can't be good on every scenario, we are already awesome on AoE sustained, cleave and single target, if you throw AoE burst into the mix too, we'd get nerfed for sure

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not talking about damage here. And no, our aoe is garbage if the trash dies fast without bag of tricks proc. This trait does almost the same damage as a full fists of fury cast (the hardest hitting monk aoe ability) so I don't know how it's ok to be RNG. Why can't we just for once agree that such abilities should not be RNG with 0 control. If we just accept this shit again and again blizzard will keep doing it. I mean look at Outlaw for fucks sake. Is roll the bones fine? Wtf were they smoking when they implemented it like that?

Outlaw is really great for AoE burst, even if you get bad rolls

Assassination is good for everything else but AoE burst, while outlaw sucks dick ( with a reasonable chance atleast, because of bad rolls, if fights end early 'tis all good ) on cleave/single target fights

Different specs, different advantages

[Tyrarolls]

yeah...its fine that assa shits on outlaw in st and cleave...cause we got the aoe advantages.

what a stupid bullshit comment lol - st and cleave (2-3 targets) define most bosses..in raid you never got a rogue with you cause he was king of aoe..especially now when you can have hunter/dh/frostdks/firemages/windwalker...

ppl forget the fact that assa has an advantages over outlaw in most fights just by the fact that even if bosses run around (like ele,ursoc,guarm) they have their dots bleedings...while outlaw has 0 dps if he doesnt attack...

If i could have the choice between sucking in AOE and being king in ST and cleave ...or being "alright-good" in aoe...well...

no offense but most of the guys in this forum have no idea what they are talking about...neither the outlaw whiners nor the "all is fine...assa is fine..outlaw is fine...all is fine..balanced...different advantages..." dudes

/e: "outlaw is good even with bad rolls" << lmao...