So has the numbers been crunched, will Nemesis topple Momentum?

[Super Kami Dende]

How is Momentum clunky? Don't just throw out buzzwords. You pool your fury, use VR or FR, hit chaos strike a few times. What about this is clunky?

Because Felrush and Vengeful Retreat can put you in bad positions often during high movement fights or fights that require grouping often.

If a Boss stands perfectly still and has a large hitbox, Momentum feels ok. But I'd rather be able to keep Fel Rush and Momentum as movement abilties than as DPS abilities.

I also just find other DPS variants of Havoc much more fun and faster paced. Momentum feels slow regardless of how much you are actually zipping around the place.

[Skorpionss]

Frankly if any talent will prove to be better than Momentum I will probably switch to tanking... Havoc DH without momentum is just a monk...

[Super Kami Dende]

So you want people to play a harder part of the class and get less results? Brilliant. How about you put in some effort instead of whining about a perfectly fine talent, LOL. For that talent row there are 3 Options; Momentum, a perfectly fine way to reward effort, Fel Eruption; The ultimate Noob Trap, and Nemesis; an alternative to lazy people (like yourself) that complaint about a slight bit of challenge within gameplay.
I bet you are one of those people who complaint about Mythic raiders getting unique mounts too?

Reading comprehension seems hard for you, I didn't say they should get less results, I said it shouldn't be the "best" to go talent. Couldn't give a fuck if it was only 1-2% higher dps, let the special snowflakes that think the Momentum rotation is "hard" (lmao) keep doing it.

I just rather be able to play the spec in a Fun way without feeling like I am be punished because I don't want to be a backflipping ballerina.

Momentum isn't "hard" it just isn't fun.

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Frankly if any talent will prove to be better than Momentum I will probably switch to tanking... Havoc DH without momentum is just a monk...

You have likely not played a Monk if you think non-momentum DH is like a Monk.

[Deleted]

How is Momentum clunky? Don't just throw out buzzwords. You pool your fury, use VR or FR, hit chaos strike a few times. What about this is clunky?

I'm finding it incredibly annoying to raid on my DH at the moment because I am so sick of trying to plot the best course around the boss and adds without stepping in someone else's badly placed floor shite.

[Deleted]

Reading comprehension seems hard for you, I didn't say they should get less results, I said it shouldn't be the "best" to go talent. Couldn't give a fuck if it was only 1-2% higher dps, let the special snowflakes that think the Momentum rotation is "hard" (lmao) keep doing it.

I just rather be able to play the spec in a Fun way without feeling like I am be punished because I don't want to be a backflipping ballerina.

Momentum isn't "hard" it just isn't fun.

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So which is it? Momentum should yield better or worse results? If momentum yields worse results than Nemesis why ever pick it? Really seems to me that you leveled a DH, used Momentum for five minutes and found it annoying to use. IMO Nemesis should always be worse in every situation, since it's an ability you get to click once every two minutes. As for Momentum being annoying to play some of us acturally enjoy things like doing Wrath of Aszhara with Tyrannical and being extremely stressed. Some people acturally like the flow of fel rushing through mobs and comboing your AoE abilities together with it.

As i said earlier, there are plenty of nobrain specs to choose from (And DH is one of them), can you stop complainting about a perfectly decent talent and instead ask Blizzard to fix the other 66% of talents that are currently complete trash? Thank you.

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I'm finding it incredibly annoying to raid on my DH at the moment because I am so sick of trying to plot the best course around the boss and adds without stepping in someone else's badly placed floor shite.

That's part of the fun? Planning your movement / being efficient. Not like there are a ton of things to look out for besides that?

[Super Kami Dende]

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So which is it? Momentum should yield better or worse results? If momentum yields worse results than Nemesis why ever pick it? Really seems to me that you leveled a DH, used Momentum for five minutes and found it annoying to use. IMO Nemesis should always be worse in every situation, since it's an ability you get to click once every two minutes. As for Momentum being annoying to play some of us acturally enjoy things like doing Wrath of Aszhara with Tyrannical and being extremely stressed. Some people acturally like the flow of fel rushing through mobs and comboing your AoE abilities together with it.

As i said earlier, there are plenty of nobrain specs to choose from (And DH is one of them), can you stop complainting about a perfectly decent talent and instead ask Blizzard to fix the other 66% of talents that are currently complete trash? Thank you.

I'm not complaining about it as a Talent, I said I just don't want it to be the be all and end all Talent as a DH. Also, you just said to ask Blizzard to fix their other talents to stop them being Trash, but have been saying you don't think anyone should do good DPS unless they play Momentum.

The contradictions are real.

protip: You can still fel rush without momentum.

[Deleted]

I'm not complaining about it as a Talent, I said I just don't want it to be the be all and end all Talent as a DH. Also, you just said to ask Blizzard to fix their other talents to stop them being Trash, but have been saying you don't think anyone should do good DPS unless they play Momentum.

The contradictions are real.

protip: You can still fel rush without momentum.

Yeah probably should have clarified my stance a bit better; i think momentum should be an integral part of the Havoc spec (so maybe baseline) and when i talk about the 66% of other talents im mostly talking about the other tiers (well including fel eruption)
If momentum was to never become baseline however, i don't see a reason for it not to be the default go to, since it is harder to use and sort of class defining. And yes, im fully aware of how the class works, and that you still have FR / VR without momentum, i just think that the flow of momentum gives the best gameplay.

How i see it currently with this PTR is that Nemesis will probably be the go to for ST fights, and maybe Momentum can still be relevant for AoE / M+, i think this is wrong. Nemesis currently has it's niche encounters when there is absolutely no way to move around without dying (CoS last boss with Volcanic comes to mind) which is fine, and as a DPS CD, it is just fine. I just don't think that having it tuned above momentum for ST is a good idea.

Also im wondering, are you deliberately trying to misunderstand what im saying by "Flow" in gameplay or do you need me to clarify? It's not like you play the exact same way with or without momentum but i guess you didn't know that XD

[TEHPALLYTANK]

There's a big difference between having to not cap FR charges, which even if you fail by a few moments is a low dps loss.
And having to use FR/VR before using any kind of heavy hitting abilities. Which is the main drawback of momo and why a lot of people dislike it.

Just reroll if you don't like it, this is like someone picking feral then complaining about the rotation being too difficult.

Just because it is a new class doesn't mean you need to play it. I got my monk to max level during MoP and probably spent about 15 hours total playing it at max level, because I hated WW and found BrM and MW to be uninteresting. Same thing with DK, last time I had a DK at max level was during WotLK. I just don't like the playstyle of DKs, so I don't play 'em.

[iperson]

this talent alone is class defining...

Not really

[Deleted]

But it is.
And it' starting to really get on my nerves, this whole crusade for Nemesis or Fel Eruption to be viable at the cost of the one buff that's keeping the Havoc dps identity intact, as annoying as sometimes it could be.

[Ranaro]

But it is.
And it' starting to really get on my nerves, this whole crusade for Nemesis or Fel Eruption to be viable at the cost of the one buff that's keeping the Havoc dps identity intact, as annoying as sometimes it could be.

I feel like if you're having an identity crisis because of a single talent being 5% lower in dps than another, you have a bigger problem with the class.

And to the people who are crying "skill gap", momentum is not a hard skill to play. The reason people complain about it is because its just ridiculous to have to dance around a boss in order to do decent damage and then still lose out to other classes.

[Sarevokcz]

the only thing bad about momentum is VR providing it too, that spell is way too clunky to use on anything with smaller hitbox, because it backflips so far and unlike FR, does piss poor damage on its own. Let us keep ONE mobility tool purely for mobility and defensive purposes please? Id throw gold in dalaran if prepared and VR benefit from momentum were gone

[Nezia]

I will say it again: Momentum should just become our mastery.

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

That's cool.
I like using mobility buttons for actual mobility reasons, and not to do better damage. Felt the same way about Chi Wave, using our healing talent because it was 10% of a WW's damage. It's a new class and they're still figuring the shit out. I guarantee a lot of us won't even like the spec by the time they are happy with it.

[mickybrighteyes]

But it is.
And it' starting to really get on my nerves, this whole crusade for Nemesis or Fel Eruption to be viable at the cost of the one buff that's keeping the Havoc dps identity intact, as annoying as sometimes it could be.

so it's more class defining than the ability that is about hunting down a key target and killing it.... or a magical burst of fel energy....

no i think you're bias on the talent is showing. Though I have to admit, a talent that almost encourages bad movement for the sake of more deeps does seem to exemplify a certain type of player.

[HeiAggra]

Ithink momentum should be the top dps since it requires more planning and skill to have a good uptime! It's ok to buff Nemesis but never to be better then momentum. Also i HATE with all my hearth the DB talent it's just silly! they should reward ppl for actually knowing how to generate and spend the fury in the right way! But tha's me!

[Deleted]

That's part of the fun? Planning your movement / being efficient. Not like there are a ton of things to look out for besides that?

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but for me no, that's not the case.

I don't mind using FR, because I'm facing the right way anyway and it requires minimal thought to position it between aforementioned floor shite, but having to use VR as part of the rotation has always felt cumbersome/awkward to me.

[Zalavaaris]

I do love the momentum gameplay as I do feel it takes more skill to play just for the fact that it requires a movement and position aspect to perform. Nemesis does not so it is simply another stand and dps cooldown. What I really love about momentum is the ability to use it at my will. I feel more powerful as a whole because I choose when to use it. I get more damage on trash, adds, and whatever else I want burst damage for. But honestly the real problem is the fury generation nerf. The fury we get with demon blades and the ring as it is on live is how all demon hunters should be.

[Sarange]

Ithink momentum should be the top dps since it requires more planning and skill to have a good uptime! It's ok to buff Nemesis but never to be better then momentum. Also i HATE with all my hearth the DB talent it's just silly! they should reward ppl for actually knowing how to generate and spend the fury in the right way! But tha's me!

i would say its harder to manage fury with dblades.

[HeiAggra]

i would say its harder to manage fury with dblades.

No sorry, you just hope for procs it's a dumb gameplay, demon bite you need to know how many times to press and if you need to be sure to capped or not depending if you have VR ready or not and stuff like that. It's more diffcult then just wait for the fury to appear