Patch 7.1.5 Class Design, Artifact Power Exploit Actions, Artifact Knowledge Catch Up

[Aggrophobic]

I don't know what world you live in, but most Legendaries aren't very game changing that you have to have them in Normal raids... unless you really are that bad.

I'm sure that item that heals you through Feign Death is 'so necessary.'

No, that would be one of the bad ones for sure. Fire mages have one that sure is game changeing. DKs and rogues have these as well.
I'm guessing your a hunter, the boots are silly strong on some fights.

You don't need them for normal but you'd never take a player without them over someone that has them if they were just as good.

Firstly, I didn't say I didn't care. Secondly, I *certainly* didn't say there was no iteration of design where I *wouldn't* care.

I am quite happy with the knowledge that a legendary will come to me eventually. I find this to be satisfying and I am happy to be patient. I can imagine many, many potential designs I would loathe, including many that have been used in the past, however, and I am *extremely* happy that none of them were implemented instead of what we have now.

You might very well go without a usable one all expantion long though and theres the problem. No matter how much you play or how good you are theres no guarantee you'll get a legendary.

For many players, not having one now means they simply can't take part in the in the content they used to in previous expantions where RNG was not the deciding factor. You either get lucky or you don't play the game.

WoW used to be about skill and dedication, now it's just a lottery. Thats not what I'd call fun.

[Zoldor]

I think the legendary system is not good for an MMO. Totally random drops, being important, and being ultra powerful is a bad way to handle it. Yes, in vanilla it could take a while to get BiS, but that has more to do with 40 man raid teams, small drops per boss, etc. It wasn't a totally random system. You could target your loots, save your DKP, and acquire what you wanted based on a time-effort-reward system. This random system needs to stay where it came from, dungeon crawlers and hack in slash.

An MMO is more about work for reward than the random shiny from random content. I don't like it as a model in an MMO. Even if I had BiS i'd feel this way, because I like the idea of working toward something, not just randomly waiting on something that could come from any random thing. Especially, when class design is considered around these items or influenced by them. You want a random system, make the reward utility based and not class performance based.

The system has way too much influence on the game and the reward to effort just isn't there. It is a Bad design I think needs to be gone in the next expansion or revamped.

I do not think this makes Legion bad, as I've greatly enjoyed Legion. This part of it is something I dislike and think is the weakest point of the entire expansion. No expansion is perfect and some things have to change going forward and I hope this is one of them.

It oddly keeps me from playing my alts as well, as I keep thinking. One more Mythic, one more Heroic, one more + and maybe I'll land that good Legendary. Despite not really wanting to do the content. There isn't a sense of completion.

[Glorious Leader]

I dont know guys if you don't wanna see it or what is wrong with you guys, but don't you remember vanilla/tbc ? When you had to play for months to get bis item. This system is made to KEEP YOU PLAYING FOR LONG TIME and not becoming bis in few weeks and switch this game to another. You must be blind if you dont see this.

Rng is not synonomous with player retention. Put the gear on a vendor for a currency and grind that out. Ironically this is rxactly what thet did and is probably the best thing to happen to retention.

[TheRevenantHero]

If they think that guilds will take the guy who spent more time with them over someone that has better gear, they're ignorant as fuck.

[Deleted]

This legendary system is so bad it's unreal, let us target legendaries PLEASE

[unfilteredJW]

Yeah, I really, really tried to like the legendary system, but I can't. No one person should be sad when a piece of gear drops. Watching someone finally get their drop and it's the god forsaken ring just fucking hurts.

[Gadzooks]

Why push out a half finished build for PTR then, especially if the mechanical changes don't make sense? What are we supposed to test in such a case, how broken shit is? This whole thing sounds like a backpedal to me because of the outrage since the release of this first PTR iteration.

Because they're testing more than just talents, obviously. The art/landscape guys may have stuff that was ready to look at, so they put it up. This is a HUGE patch, so of course other teams than class design are going to be using it.

This PTR I would bet is going to be up until January. You have plenty of time to test the changes, when they finish them. They don't owe you anything, so stop acting like they do - the PTR is a priviledge, not a right.

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Yup the comments scream of damage control.

"The changes you’re seeing so far are focused primarily on how each spec plays in terms of mechanics, rotations, ability sets, talent options, etc. As some of these changes are fairly significant, we haven’t been making many adjustments to overall performance just yet. We need each spec to be completely functional before we can start tuning its effectiveness."

If they were really just concerns with mechanics/rotation there wouldn't have been any numbers tuning yet.

They're all over the board with this expansion. Sting's complaiing aside, it seems like they're rebuilding all the specializations...but didnt they say last week, they were just going to tweak and buff, not large changes?

The instability of the class design is...surprising. I'm glad I'm not playing, is looks like everyone gets to relearn their class every patch. That's not good for the long term.

[Tykus]

Then player A gets BiS legendaries, while Player B gets the !@#$ tier legendaries that are totally useless. Fast forward some time, Player A and Player B both try to get the same spot in a raid. Of course, player A gets picked because he has better legendaries that actually increase his performance.
Well in this scenario as Player B has been helping their guild out more than Player A has, I think most communal focused guilds would prefer to give the spot to someone like Player B who is actually contributing to helping the guild, rather than the person who got lucky and is simply there for the ride.

Also as Player B has spent more time doing current content than Player A, they will arguably know how to adapt and adjust to situations (like where they can squeeze out more DPS for example) more readily than Player A will.

There are plenty of groups and guilds clearing Normal and Heroic Emerald Nightmare & Trial of Valor with most of their roster not even having a BiS Legendary. A Legendary should not going to be the sole determining factor in whether or not a coordinated group is going to beat an encounter. Sure, the Legendary might bring enhancements or utility that may make the process smoother, but they're not a through-and-through substitute for skill and execution.

Do they not understand how Guild Apps work for recruitment? Or are they just saying one side of the story on purpose as an excuse to support the legendary system being retarded.

[JIMM-]

seeing how blizz gates certain QOL changes and big deeps behind legendaries, it is only fair if everyone can target farm them instead of just getting lucky,

i really dislike the "u can clear content without bis legendary speech" , this is seriously dumb, getting outperformed by someone because they are lucky and you are not. This doesn't leave a good taste in every single players mouth, the players with good legendaries also knew they didnt beat ppl fair n square , they just got lucky with drops.

class balancing isnt the only ball they dropped, the current legendary system is also a mess, exactly like what the questions pointed out , get lucky twice and u are done for the rest of the xpac while everyone else struggles in frustration without any solution in sight. Just allow us to trade 2 legendaries for a targeted one , reward ppl that farmed hard since the beginning of legion until now and hasnt been rewarded for their effort n hardwork and also hasnt even get lucky with drops, ie, 99% of the player base and me.

Also f**k sephuz prydaz n other rubbish legendaries that has absolutely rubbish bonus and unusable, these legendaries shouldnt even exist cause they only make players sad.

its freaking unbelievable blizz actually thinks the current legendary system is fine. There is only 2 solutions, give us ability to target farm or please remove all the rubbish legendaries except the 2 that every single spec will use.

[Deleted]

"we read what you write, we dont give a fuck, but we read it"

[mini2904]

just delete the legendary system thats currently there and add a quest line or rare drops from certain bosses, or even back to the good old days where only a certain class got a legendary!
Legendaries today are (IMO) starting to become the new Epics, yes you can only have 2 equipped, but shouldnt suprise me that in the next expansion we will be able to get legendaries in every slot
PLEASE bring it back to vanilla where it was RARE to see someone with a legendary

[roahn the warlock]

Yeah, I still don't see a problem with the system. No dude is checking your gear to see who has the item that increases your dps a whole 5%

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If they think that guilds will take the guy who spent more time with them over someone that has better gear, they're ignorant as fuck.

Yeah, except the legendary gear doesn't really increase your dps that much, and anyone bitching probably isn't a mythic raider anyway.

[kamuimac]

Rng is not synonomous with player retention. Put the gear on a vendor for a currency and grind that out. Ironically this is rxactly what thet did and is probably the best thing to happen to retention.

what surprises me is why the f... they try again and again so hard to go away from that model - like with vp - taking it away was hated by playerbase - bringing it back revitalised WoD and was one of better parts of that expansion - i bet that if they brough in vp gear back and cap it at 870 itlv people would be more then happy to farm it . yet they try and try to find stupid solutions to non existent problems.

were badges boring system ? maybe but it was working more then ok and nobody complained about them being catch up mechanics - why blizzard decided to go away from it is beyond me since nobody wanted it gone neither on forums or mmochampion on youtube at the time they went away.

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Do they not understand how Guild Apps work for recruitment? Or are they just saying one side of the story on purpose as an excuse to support the legendary system being retarded.

or maybe they are unhappy with how applying to guilds look like job interview nowadays. as its killing of social aspect and reduced people to math numbers.

[terminaltrip421]

what world quest exploit? I assume it beyond simply doing world quests? 'cause I did world quests, occasionally ones that offered artifact power. not sure how that ever could have been exploited.

[MetalJacx]

If those legendary artifact answers aren't the most bullshit and treating us like we are stupid i have ever seen from blizzard. Why does it take blizzard so long to fest up to making a mistake instead of sitting on it and hoping we forget.
We have been right about, Diablo 3 AH, WoD Facebook style and BS professions, Overwacth tick rate, and Hereos not having Bans. I think the community has proving when system have been pretty bad.

[Darsey]

I think that no lgendary should have a dps increase effect other then it's base stats. The effect should be something fun or some sort of utility that is far from being a must.

It should be something thst feel good to have rather then something tou feel bad for not having.

From a BM hunter PoV: the head item that heal you whenever you use faint death is great, it is fun and give you something you normally wouldn't have, yet not having ot will not make you feel bad.

On the other hand, the belt thst reduce focus costs during beastiel Wrath is a huge dps increase that makes you feel bad for not having it.

[Elestia]

You don't have to be a "try hard" to dislike the legendary system though.
If you don't have at least on good legendary at this point in the expantion you have no place even in normal raids.
It's as simple as that.

Blizzard took the bad parts of Diablo and put them into WoW. It does not work well in WoW and the expantion is really suffering from it.

I never thought I'd say this but I miss WoD.

That's some ridiculous hyperbole. The game has never been better than it is now. Just because certain classes have game breaking legendaries doesn't defunct the system. For example fire is already an over represented spec. If x% of people get the strong legendary, so be it, go play frost or arcane and leave it. Play whatever is strongest. Don't shit your pants over it, like stand up for yourself. That's even if your guild has another fire mage with that item.

Maybe you should build social connections / friendships with people so you don't chalk up your self worth to a game and gear that shouldn't matter to true friendship in the first place and just be fucking done with it.

[TobiasAmaranth]

A dude literally got two legendaries in Karazhan today. Off back to back bosses. Bloody ridiculous that such things are even allowed to happen when I'm doing every bit of content outside of pure instance spam and have only gotten one. And that was after 7.1's tweak to the 'bad luck' numbers. -_-

Though as far as people demanding 'good' legendaries for your group privilege, I can't say I've seen that in the pugs I've been in. Ilvls definitely help, but unless you're doing bottom-level DPS compared to the group average, then you'll do fine. Just play your character and gear where you can. It's more that the system creates this perception of 'you must have this!' but doesn't LET us have it is what's bad.

[Supercool]

That's some ridiculous hyperbole. The game has never been better than it is now.

I think you put those two sentences in the wrong order.

[alabaster jones]

' Hence the saying "if you do the content, the Legendaries will come." '

I've heard gambling addicts say something along similar lines...

Hope they move back to obtaining legendaries having a start and endpoint, the current system isn't a healthy one.