Drape of Shame. Karazhan cloak. Thoughts?

[Deleted]

I got this cloak 660 (crit/vers) version this Wednesday. I don't know what I was thinking but I kind of forgot about it sitting in my bags. Now I saw a Holy Paladin thread where they went apeshit on that OP effect for them.

How is this trinket for druid healing? I have cenarius cloak (865 crit/haste with socket). That means I will lose about 700 haste but i mean it must be worth it?

[Keiyra]

Drape of Shame is super strong for resto druid healing (as long as you don't have like zero crit, which should not be the case given most gear this tier)

The effect is so strong that the baseline cloak is better than any cloak up to about 915 ilvl. (the crit bonus effect is valued around 700-800 intellect).
SO yes, definitely use it.

[Deleted]

Drape of Shame is super strong for resto druid healing (as long as you don't have like zero crit, which should not be the case given most gear this tier)

The effect is so strong that the baseline cloak is better than any cloak up to about 915 ilvl. (the crit bonus effect is valued around 700-800 intellect).
SO yes, definitely use it.

with that cloak i have 21% crit and 27% haste 13% mastery.. oh is that so? Amazing

[LeetHaxor]

Drape of Shame is super strong for resto druid healing (as long as you don't have like zero crit, which should not be the case given most gear this tier)

The effect is so strong that the baseline cloak is better than any cloak up to about 915 ilvl. (the crit bonus effect is valued around 700-800 intellect).
SO yes, definitely use it.

Care to share some math proving this? I believe you, just not sure how it is that strong.

[bluckgen]

Care to share some math proving this? I believe you, just not sure how it is that strong.

Using a modest 20% crit stat, the effect means that you'll do 10% stronger heals 20% of the time, which works out to be 2% average increase in healing throughput.

If your current int is 35,000, you'll need 350 more int to achieve 1% increase in healing (1% of 35,000). As such, the 2% increase of the cloak would work out to be 700int.

This increases if your crit stat is more than the 20% or your current int is more than the 35,000 used in the calculation above.

As such, even the base Drape of Shame is currently our BiS.

[Deleted]

Using a modest 20% crit stat, the effect means that you'll do 10% stronger heals 20% of the time, which works out to be 2% average increase in healing throughput.

If your current int is 35,000, you'll need 350 more int to achieve 1% increase in healing (1% of 35,000). As such, the 2% increase of the cloak would work out to be 700int.

This increases if your crit stat is more than the 20% or your current int is more than the 35,000 used in the calculation above.

As such, even the base Drape of Shame is currently our BiS.

Alright. My current int is 34850 ish and crit is at 21%. I use ursoc and dragon trinket. Then i will use this cloak instead of the other even the fact that i lose 650 haste i guess since int is 1.0 and haste 0.725

[huth]

Using a modest 20% crit stat, the effect means that you'll do 10% stronger heals 20% of the time, which works out to be 2% average increase in healing throughput.

It's a crit bonus increas, not a crit healing increase. So it's only 10% of the extra healing from the crit(100% base + 110% crit bonus), for a total of 5% healing.
The tooltip is somewhat misleading.

Still good, but not quite as good as you believe.

[Alltat]

The tooltip is somewhat misleading.

At least such tooltips are consistently misleading. They've been worded more or less the same since the original release. But yeah, divide the number(s) by two to get the actual benefit. Using the numbers above, that makes the proc worth 350 intellect.

[ryklin]

I wrote a bit on it in a shaman thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...me-vs-Standard

basically, look at a log of one of your fights then mouse over each heal (the bar in the middle, it'll break down crit/non-cri/tick/tick-crit and see about what % of your healing, it's about 35% on my drood and 40% on my shaman

then you just go down the list and see how much healing you have coming from crits from each ability and average that out

it's good, expect about a 1.7-2% healing increase for me on both my drood and shaman (both are around 20% crit in their raid sets give or take some %), definitely worth a 5ilvl and small secondary stat loss

it makes all your crits hit for 210% of the original heal just to define it

it also benefits certain spells and classes with increase crit chances a bit more (see: paladins and M+ shamans), it can be helpful in M+ if someone's really getting trucked and needs regrowth spam

[turbothots]

Looks amazing - an 870 dropped last week to a ret paladin in my party - I offered him 30k for it and he declined because I already have an 890 cloak
Hopefully will get it eventually.

[oddmyth]

It's a crit bonus increas, not a crit healing increase. So it's only 10% of the extra healing from the crit(100% base + 110% crit bonus), for a total of 5% healing.
The tooltip is somewhat misleading.

Still good, but not quite as good as you believe.

10% healing from a critical strike portion of a heal is the same as 10% increase on non-critical heal, that only occurs based on your critical strike chance.

The math outlined above your post stands.

Approximate INT worth is (crit_chance*0.1)*character_int, where crit_chance is the decimal equivalent of the percentage on the character sheet (26% is 0.26).

For example with 36540 INT and 23% crit.

0.23*0.1*36540 = 840.42 INT

[huth]

First, the math is still incorrect. Second, you forgot to account for crit benefit without the cloak. The average increase is lower than the 10% of a normal heal, since you already crit anyway, except for the trivial fringe case of 0% crit where the effect does nothing to begin with.

For that matter, at 100% crit, it's a static 5% increase to total healing.

[oddmyth]

That makes more sense when you look at the upper limit, and I wasn't looking at all the permutations. Thanks for taking the time to respond!

[Alltat]

10% healing from a critical strike portion of a heal is the same as 10% increase on non-critical heal, that only occurs based on your critical strike chance.

The math outlined above your post stands.

No, the first part still stands, but the second part doesn't. The part you repeated is correct. Going from there to say that it's a 2% healing increase is wrong. It doesn't account for the crit healing you'd be doing anyway. To get the real increase you need to calculate 1 - (1.20+0.02)/1.20 ~= 1.017.

In reality, that number is also an overly generous estimate, as it assumes that all healing can crit (or scales with healing that can, like Leech does). Taking Ysera's Gift (which can't crit) into account, it drops to 1.58%. That's assuming 4.5% of your spell healing (i.e. ignoring trinket procs, healthstones, leech, etc.) is from Ysera's Gift, which is pretty reasonable on a raid fight where you're doing ~300k HPS. In a dungeon, you'll likely be doing far less HPS overall and Ysera's Gift will be a bigger part of your healing, bringing down the value.

[Laurathansal]

Gents

Instead of maths, has anyone equipped a normal cloak, tested some heals on themselves, and then equipped the cloak and tested again? This would take 1 min to do and would enlighten everyone better than just random maths.

[Deleted]

It really wouldn't, since you would have to run at least 20 minutes of testing to balance out crit/proc RNG and slight variation in play. Simming it might be a good idea though.

[Alltat]

Instead of maths, has anyone equipped a normal cloak, tested some heals on themselves, and then equipped the cloak and tested again? This would take 1 min to do and would enlighten everyone better than just random maths.

Depends on what you want to be enlightened about. If all you care about is how much stronger your Rejuvenation or Regrowth is then that's easy to find out. If you want to know how much your total healing done actually goes up, that's harder. It also depends on whether we're talking mythic+, LFR, or mythic raiding. Hell, even what trinkets you have matters; the cloak works better with stat trinkets than with heal proc trinkets like Vial of Nightmare Fog.

[huth]

Gents

Instead of maths, has anyone equipped a normal cloak, tested some heals on themselves, and then equipped the cloak and tested again? This would take 1 min to do and would enlighten everyone better than just random maths.

That's literally just a more inefficient way of doing the exact same thing. As a video game, this stuff is already all math to begin with, because that's the only thing a computer can do.

[majin662]

Is there anywhere where I can find the math for how to determine at what Ilvl or stat combo another cloak may beat this one? I've checked the discord and there's a pinned message that just says "USE IT: worth 800 INT" or some such and I just need more then taking someone's word for it.

Thanks!!

edit: searching this thread there seems to be debate on the formulas being used to calculate

edit edit: Torty was on discord and helped out. Also has it on his spreadsheet (just at work can't play with it) So moving along here :-)

[Laurathansal]

Folks, what I mean with the "simplistic" approach, is to take things with a pinch of salt. Even when you sim things, it won't matter much because you forget other factors such as the importance of movement, the damage the raid takes and how it takes it (spikes Vs steady damage), deaths, the importance of other stats on the weight of the stat you're measuring...

Anyway, If you love maths, do your thing