29% of DPS who have completed heroic ToV are playing either a Fire Mage or MM Hunter

[Deleted]

Players always gravivate towards the best solution. Right now Blizzard just gave up, they know they can't win, so the best specs will keep being the best. Other players take it to another level, and only play the best spec within the game, not their class. So even if they hate hunters, they gonna roll MM to do phat deepz. Perfectly normal, as it always was.

The only thing I find sad about all that is the DK situation. Think they really got the short end of the stick. Both specs, UH and Frost, are amazing to play, but sadly underperform.

TLDR:

I play a DK as main and hunter as alt. I think the DK needs love, the hunter is fine and everyone else is whining.

Did i translate that correctly?

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Doesn't really prove that mages or hunters are op

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/12/

Do you realise why hunters are as good as they are for progression atm? Its not because they have the best damage.

Its because during progression they have the easiest time doing the best damage they can do.

[Tentonaxe]

heroic is a joke, this means nothing other than FOTM.

[Deleted]

heroic is a joke, this means nothing other than FOTM.

Method using 4 hunters for progression isnt a joke tho

[Tentonaxe]

Yes, top guilds will class stack, nothing new there. No amount of balancing will fix that while this game has bosses that vary and classes/specs that aren't copy/paste duplicates with different named abilities. Are you expecting every class to be within 1000 dps of each other in every situation? What spec is so low that if you brought one it would be impossible to clear heroic TOV?

[Deleted]

blizzard tuning AD 2016

fire those retarded tuners and hire competent people

The problem is that how legion works is completely opposite of how wow has worked balance wise since vanilla. But Blizz's balance hasn't changed.

Let's say:
I play Warrior (prot)
Warrior (prot) is gutted in the next patch
I can
A) Reroll to DPS ->Gear up
B) Reroll another class -> Level up -> Gear up
However in legion it becomes
A) Reroll to DPS -> Farm DPS legendaries -> Farm AP -> Gear up (less important now since we have less secondaries and only trinkets are really important)
B) Reroll another class -> Level up -> Wait for AK->Farm legendaries -> Farm AP -> Gear up (less important now since we have less secondaries and only trinkets are really important)


And remember blizz *is* very prone to gut classes balance wise, and the community *is* very prone to kneejerk to it (ie no brm allowed)

[Deleted]

Yes, top guilds will class stack, nothing new there. No amount of balancing will fix that while this game has bosses that vary and classes/specs that aren't copy/paste duplicates with different named abilities. Are you expecting every class to be within 1000 dps of each other? What spec is so low that if you brought one it would be impossible to clear heroic TOV?

This isnt about dps. You have some kidn of pidgeonhole glasses on. This is about how easy it is for hunters to do their max dps. Thats why they get picked.

Shadow priests on the other hand gets picked because their dps is simply ridiculous. But hunters because they have a very easy time doign their max dps during progression.


IF a heroic guild atm stacks hunters, they will ahve a way easier time clearing hc. Same with a normal guild.

[Tentonaxe]

eh, I haven't played either of the classes so i can't comment on how easy they are to do max dps (warriors are pretty easy to hit max dps... ignoring rng's impact on it...) but I seriously doubt a large majority of those players are hunters or mages because it's easy to play them. It's more likely that they're mages because mages were at the top of the simcraft dps charts for a while early on in the xpac, and hunters because of their utility to avoid repair bills and absorb 1shot mechanics.

[Deleted]

They just happen to very strong on Helya since they can cleave almost the entire fight and can solo soak tentacle slams which essentially allows you to ignore an entire mechanic.

No. They stacked 4 hunters for all three bosses in Trial.

Its because of their mobility, solo soak ability and easyness of max dps.

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How "easy" it is? Most classes are pretty much a joke to play. Only shadow priest have any kind of skill cap that matters currently. A shit shadow priest will be out performed by any other class with a player of equal skill. A great player will probably destroy every class as a shadow priest, however because the skill cap is higher. Not every class needs such a high skill cap.

There will always be strong classes for a particular fight or raid and weak classes. If you really expect every class to perform equally on every fight, you're delusional.

Spoken like someone who has only played 1-2 classes this expansion.

There are plenty of higher skillcap classes and lower skillcap classes + specs.

Hunters(if you take away survival that noone players in raiding) has two of the easiest specs to play along with the two best mobility specs in the game for ranged players.

its simply the most convenient class to stack.

[Tentonaxe]

Ok, so, they have utility that's useful. What should we do to fix it? give every class somethign that lets us absorb a 1shot ability? Give every tank an aoe grip? give every dps a single target grip?

sounds like an awful idea to me. I certainly wouldn't want to lose my warrior mobility or have it given to everyone.

[stevenho]

The disconnect is jarring, DK was fine, Monk, okay, at least it can heal, but WTF Legion adds 2 new melee specs (DH and surv hunter) while raid design team creates piles of melee unfriendly crap. As usual. Odyn and Helya are prime example why ranged > melee.

Odyn is much more ranged unfriendly due to the constant movement past P1.

[Deleted]

Ok, so, they have utility that's useful. What should we do to fix it? give every class somethign that lets us absorb a 1shot ability? Give every tank an aoe grip? give every dps a single target grip?

sounds like an awful idea to me. I certainly wouldn't want to lose my warrior mobility or have it given to everyone.

They have top notch utility, dps, mobility and survivability. Thats the issue atm. Couple that with a very simply and easy rotation compared to most other classes and hunters will be stacked. Some of their stuff needs to be toned down. Not their dps. Most likely MM's mobility and BM's rotation needs to be fucking harder to be fair

[Deleted]

Odyn is much more ranged unfriendly due to the constant movement past P1.

Eh? You do realise melees need to move about just as much, without actually being able to dps meanwhile right?

There is a reason only three melees where brought by the top 5 in Trial of valor

[Slicer299]

Helya is the only good MM hunter fight in ToV and it is also the hardest.

^^ This. Yet devs keep nerfing MM every chance they get. Even the "fix" for Barrage hitting targets 40 yards above our heads, and off screen, was a nerf because now we can't hit targets we do want if they barely above or below our position.

[Deleted]

Maybe they had them in for the first two easier fights so they can get gear for the last fight?

I didn't say they all had the same skill cap. I said some have higher than others and priest probably has the highest by far. The others are all relatively close compared to priest. BM is definitely easier to play than MM, but no one really plays BM in raids. Not sure what you're bitching about though. The best class for a fight is being stacked, welcome to reality. Even if all the classes performed closer to each other, there would still be a best class and it would still be stacked.

Most classes are pretty much a joke to play. Only shadow priest have any kind of skill cap that matters currently.

I didn't say they all had the same skill cap. I said some have higher than others and priest probably has the highest by far.

No you didnt.

Are you saying that BM hunter = sub rogue?

That BM hunter = feral?

You obviously dont know bro. MM is harder then BM. For sure. But its still in the top 10% of easy specs in Legion. Coupled with their mobility and cd's they are insane. BM is the absolute easiest spec to play in legion when you factor in their mobility, cd's and rotation. There is absolutely nothing that compares. Not even close.

I'm not bitching i am simply pointing out where you are wrong. Which is a lot of places to be fair.

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Compared to what though? Every class has a survival CD and they work fairly differently and have different utilities. You can't say a class is OP because it's OP for a single fucking fight.

When the fuck did i say that. Please quote me

Edit:

Just looking at method alone they used 4 hunters this entire expansion for every single progression kill.

[Deavane]

26 dps specs in the game and almost 1 in 3 raiders are playing just those two. For every 1 Elemental Shaman raiding at this level there are 7 Fire Mages and 7 MM Hunters

Source: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=2008

Thoughts? Do you think the proposed PTR changes will address this imbalance and infuse more variety into dps teams?
From personal experience it seems everyone who rerolls due to dissatisfaction with their own spec moves to one of those two identifying them as the most versatile and consistently powerful.

I made the change this expansion to hunter for two reasons. First reason is because my guild asked me to do. They knew I already had a hunter and that it was something I was willing to do (which leads to reason 2). The second reason I made the swap was because I was playing elemental. I had played elemental for all of WoD and was tired of the performance the spec offered. For Mythic raiding, mages and hunters are historically strong classes with high populations represented in raiding. They are a safe pick for raiders looking to play competitively for their guilds.

I will say the current proposed changes to MM are not good and will likely result in most hunters changing specs. Honestly though, these are not the specs that need heavy balancing changes. They aren't over-represented because they're FoTM. Out of the 10 bosses available in the EN and ToV, there are two where MM is incredibly strong. The others we're decent or mediocre.

[wowaccounttom]

71% of DPS who have completed heroic ToV played anything but fire mage or mm... more at 11.


unsure as to what the problem is

[Tentonaxe]

they don't do top notch dps... unless you consider any spec in the top 10 "top notch". they certainly don't beat most melee at mobility, and they're not the only classes with ways of absorbing a raid mechanic. Ret paladains have a hell of a lot more utility.

[Deleted]

What do you mean am I saying "BM hunter=x"? Maybe you're not understanding. Let's say we assign some level of difficulty to play a class using numbers 1-100. I'd say most classes are below 50 while priest is in the 80ish area. Don't know what order those classes would be in besides my personal experience but I'd say anything under 75 is pretty easy for someone like me to play to the point that the differences in skill cap don't matter. I play shadow priest as my alt so not as much practice and I fuck up on occasion but if I put as much time into it as my main, it wouldn't be as much of an issue.

Kind of just making up numbers to represent what I'm saying but how difficult a class is to play is relative on a person by person basis and not my real point anyway.

Hunters being good on Helya has nothing to do with how easy they are to play. You already admitted priest is one of the more difficult specs to play yet people stacked them in a lot of fights as well. Kind of contradicts your point doesn't it?

I know there are people out there who tell themselves what i just bolded. But thats just where you are wrong. You will definately perform better on a MM hunter then pretty much any other ranged spec simply due to the fact that you are almost never in a situation where its "stop casting to not stand in shit". You almost never have to choose between dpssing or moving as a hunter and thats one of the very reasons they are so strong. Take Odyn for example. Do you have any clue how frustrating it is for most ranged classes to have to stop casting as much as they do? Or for melees to go around chasing adds or avoiding orbs?

Hunters jsut say fuck it and keep dpssing. I'm not sure how many times i need to explain this to you before you get it. Its not about how good you think you are at pressing the rotation(i promise you, you arent as good as you think you are)

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And pretty sure those hunters have been around in that guild a long time. Maybe that has something to do with it?

Dont you ever just get tired at guessing?

To answer your question only one of those hunters have been around for a long time


I mean come on. Do you really think a guild liek Method gets to be number one because the y just keep aroudn the hunters they had last expansion? They change classes to whatever is the best setup they think they can get.
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they don't do top notch dps... unless you consider any spec in the top 10 "top notch". they certainly don't beat most melee at mobility, and they're not the only classes with ways of absorbing a raid mechanic. Ret paladains have a hell of a lot more utility.

You think mobility means being able to get from point A to point B the fastest right? And you think top notch dps is the one we find on warcarft logs right?

[Zyky]

The statistic is skewed. It doesn't count hidden/private logs. For example, claims no frost dk has a parse, yet my guild did it with a frost dk.

[Tentonaxe]

You think mobility means being able to get from point A to point B the fastest right? And you think top notch dps is the one we find on warcarft logs right?

Not exactly. Being able to keep high dps uptime, whether that means as melee moving across the room or ranged moving out of shit.

What other metric would you use than warcraft logs? If you only look at the groups and players you play with, your sample size is way too small.