Please don't let Survival die Blizz...

[Karzakk]

And, if i recall, MM is much less of a hassle to play than surv.

Might be much less of a hassle but try playing MM and not falling asleep from boredom, good luck.

[Jaigar]

I think in a vacuum, the spec is alright, but WoW is too saturated with melee dps. Survival doesn't have misdirection which really blows, and doesn't offer enough utility to justify their spot. Even if they do amazing damage, where do you fit them? This week is skittish and after dealing with rogues who dont use tricks (BrM tanking), having even less hunters who can MD is just frustrating. Most tanks have a aoe slow, what good is tar trap?

[Deleted]

Survival is not supposed to be competetive noeone wants a melee hunter feral is a unrequired melee and hunter is on another level of unrequired melee,

[Deleted]

Would be true if the other specs weren't really boring to play - not everything is about how your spec performs in raids.

Great to hear that, since at least BM, while simple, is not in the least boring.

[Deleted]

Seems to me like people want just comfort. 3-4 buttons easy play and big damage. Then class is fine and die all the others.

Survival is very fresh and enjoyable unlike MM and BM. Just because other two classes can put out higher dmg atm dont make them better. This is so hypocritical.

Give Survival more utilization and some boost to dmg and you'll see how Surv. playerbase goes up.

If someone is ok with utter boredom of BM/MM and saying something about Surv then there is nothing to say.

[Okacz]

How is survival so non braindead? 3 moves you use on cd, 2 longer cd moves you use on cd and one mechanic of stacking mongoose bite. Soooo non brain dead holy shit. It really is one of the hardest specs in the game and that's why no one plays it. Oh not really though. There is a clique forming of like 25 of the actual survival players (because there are only about 25 people who actually play the spec) who think they are better than everyone else because they do 50k less damage but play the so called harder spec so its okay. But actually the spec is just not realistic and thats why no plays it.

It's hard/impossible to explain someone why a thing is difficult.

In a way, SV has 2 rotations: MB rotation, where you spam MB with all your might, weave in FotE and cooldowns, and the non-MB rotation, with Lacerate, Flanking Strike, Explosive etc. The trick is to manage those rotations together without losing too much of either of them, while prioritizing MB rotation where it's count. Spamming MB potentially makes your dots fall, so you need to know where to just let it go, and when to sacrifice a part of that rotation to refresh them. And there's even more stuff if you go for WotM build. It's kind of the only rotation I know where doing "perfectly" is pretty much impossible - you need to know the worth of each GCD and sometimes sacrifice the right thing.

It's not about doing 50k less damage and feeling hipster about it, some players just play what they like and what feels fine. Marksmanship right now does not appeal to many people, and yet they play it because of how good it is. The opposite can't be hard to understand. Especially since now SV has been sort of fixed, being actually pretty damn good in many situations, like sustained ST and burst AE.

No idea what "not realistic" means. Like what, fighting alongside your pet with a spear isn't? Idk, feels more realistic than an Assassin who chooses to bleed his targets to death.

[Deleted]

I really dislike the current BM gameplay with constant summoning of beasts (same with Demonology Warlock) - not going to claim it's bad but personally I really just dislike it.

They wanted to follow the spec flavour, right? Since Demo got demetamorphosed, it kinda made sense to treat BM similarly... an obvious case of De Gustibus I'd say. I love my Dire Beasts and feel really sad about Titan's Thunder allegadly only being active on beasts you had up when activating it.

[Deleted]

It's hard/impossible to explain someone why a thing is difficult.

In a way, SV has 2 rotations: MB rotation, where you spam MB with all your might, weave in FotE and cooldowns, and the non-MB rotation, with Lacerate, Flanking Strike, Explosive etc. The trick is to manage those rotations together without losing too much of either of them, while prioritizing MB rotation where it's count. Spamming MB potentially makes your dots fall, so you need to know where to just let it go, and when to sacrifice a part of that rotation to refresh them. And there's even more stuff if you go for WotM build. It's kind of the only rotation I know where doing "perfectly" is pretty much impossible - you need to know the worth of each GCD and sometimes sacrifice the right thing.

It's not about doing 50k less damage and feeling hipster about it, some players just play what they like and what feels fine. Marksmanship right now does not appeal to many people, and yet they play it because of how good it is. The opposite can't be hard to understand. Especially since now SV has been sort of fixed, being actually pretty damn good in many situations, like sustained ST and burst AE.

No idea what "not realistic" means. Like what, fighting alongside your pet with a spear isn't? Idk, feels more realistic than an Assassin who chooses to bleed his targets to death.

I can't understand either what is unrealistic here. Hunters cannot use melee weapon to kill something with pet next to them?
Rather deny something than think of it for a moment. So open-minded tolerant people here.

[Deleted]

Survival in its name does not suggest it should be a Melee spec to be brutally honest, it says to me kiting and proper use of Traps. MM is the Long Range Sniper spec, with the buff of Standing Still actually bringing somewhat of a good bonus, Many good snipers can stay still for many hours, so this fits the spec. now BM would to me make more sense in being a melee spec, with the Hunter being in with the fight face first with his pet. It kinda tells me how out of touch Blizz is with specs and spec lore.

If the Survival Spec dies in its current form then I will return to the World of Warcraft, I put my sub away when this plan came to my spec and havent even looked at resubbing until its changed back, and if it isnt then its no loss these days, plenty of other games I am playing now anyway, and not one of them a Blizzard title

[Deleted]

Why would anyone switch to melee if they're playing a hunter, doesn't make sense to me.

Because hunter means hunt something regardless a weapon?
Or you mean those "hunters" who kill something far from distance where their pray doesn't even know it is about to be shot? Those "heroes" nowdays...

So from reality point of view hunter can be ranged or melee.

Furthermore there are still two boring ranged specs mechanics (atm) for anyone to choose. What is the problem here?
Blizzard made this change and had right to do so.

[Okacz]

In vanilla WoW Survival WAS a mostly a melee spec the difference then was that all specs had the same skills except the ones you got from talents, so you could play however you liked.

As much as I like arguments working in the favour of current SV, it's not really true.

In Vanilla talent trees worked differently. For the most part, focusing on a specific tree only modified your class in some way, not made you a different entity like now. That's why tanks prefered to play in Fury, with way supreme threat generation. Hunters, for that matter, did the same thing in every spec (which was mostly autoattacking), but each spec gave them slightly different things: BM made their pets stronger, MM made their shots stronger, SV made them more versatile in combat, with new melee attacks and defensive skills - but it didn't make them melee. It made them better at kiting and handling those weird situations when a mob got too close, so you couldn't shoot - but you still were trying to get back to shooting distance.

SV was played, merely due to how many things in talent tree focused on buffing the hunter with extra Agility, Crit, Hit etc. It didn't make it melee, it make it a ranged that dealt more damage, and could handle an edgy situation a bit better. Try to fight in melee tho, and you're as useful as mage hitting things with his staff.

[Dadwen]

In vanilla WoW Survival WAS a mostly a melee spec the difference then was that all specs had the same skills except the ones you got from talents, so you could play however you liked.

It WAS not a melee spec at all, it had better tools for the dead zone and that was it, it's why those tools went bye-bye with the dead zone went... (SV had the best tools out of the three, but all three did have tools for the deadzone but it was labeled a Ranged physical damage dealer even by blizzard.... )

*this is the kinda people that tick me off trying to change things to meet their version of things, did people try playing hunters as melee, ya but I suppose there were people that tried to dagger people to death with a mage does not make them right.... (I can see it now mages where reallllly rogues /facepalm)

[Krille]

The point is not about Survival not doing decent dps, which it is. It's just that hunters have two ranged specializations and everyone that has any experience in wow PVE know that you prefer ranged over melee.

[Dadwen]

As I already said there were no real difference between the specs at the time, most of the hunters abilities were ranged - but pretty much all the talents in survival boosted melee skills and melee defenses.

And I DID play a hunter in vanilla, melee was viable personally I used it mostly in PvP and I've killed many other melee classes with Raptor Strike - it hit like a truck!

Still was not a Melee class or spec (can argue it was a PVP one) but was not a melee spec it was a RANGED CLASS with one spec that had some better deadzone tools and that was it, if a mage could kill someone (that was bad or got lucky) with a staff only it still does not make it a melee class.

And I played a Hunter and a druid in Vanilla so not sure your point. (was disenfranchised when the WOW druid didn't match up to everquests druid and switched to the hunter)

[Tymona]

Am I one of the few people who enjoy the new SV specc? Dont really understand why its getting all that hate. The playstyle makes fun, and its not some shit like BM or MM where the only challenge is to not fall asleep. The DPS isnt that bad (atm 866GS and doing around 330k singledps), only heavy ae fights (illgynoth and heyla) are a pain but for that you can switch to MM.
The only reasonable dislike is the meele but blizz is to dumb to release new range classes so who can complain?

[Dadwen]

Am I one of the few people who enjoy the new SV specc? Dont really understand why its getting all that hate. The playstyle makes fun, and its not some shit like BM or MM where the only challenge is to not fall asleep. The DPS isnt that bad (atm 866GS and doing around 330k singledps), only heavy ae fights (illgynoth and heyla) are a pain but for that you can switch to MM.
The only reasonable dislike is the meele but blizz is to dumb to release new range classes so who can complain?

I'm glad blizzard could take something away that many people thoroughly enjoyed for close to a decade so you could enjoy something new... *maybe that gives you a bit of a clue for some of the hate?

[Gestopft]

I'm having tons of fun as Survival- on my second hunter. When you have two ranged options, it's hard to make a melee option desirable in high-level play.

[Tymona]

I'm glad blizzard could take something away that many people thoroughly enjoyed for close to a decade so you could enjoy something new...

Well by time things can change. sure I sometimes played SV "back in the days"... while it was the strongest hunter specc. But Blizz change speccs, might it be "bad" for some people, but the playstyle just outdated. Paladins with there holy power, priests with insanity, dk with the "all speccs can be tank", heck even pre cata hunter with mana and people (still) complain about these changes.

In my opinion is the current BM just dumb (hehe I want the pre legion BM back, still wont happen), MM is just the old MM and SV combined and SV is a new playstyle. And because of crying BM and MM will get the traps back.

[Dadwen]

Well by time things can change. sure I sometimes played SV "back in the days"... while it was the strongest hunter specc. But Blizz change speccs, might it be "bad" for some people, but the playstyle just outdated. Paladins with there holy power, priests with insanity, dk with the "all speccs can be tank", heck even pre cata hunter with mana and people (still) complain about these changes.

In my opinion is the current BM just dumb (hehe I want the pre legion BM back, still wont happen), MM is just the old MM and SV combined and SV is a new playstyle. And because of crying BM and MM will get the traps back.

really outdated??!!? (that's the best you can do), well along that lines you can say putting another Melee in a game that's brimming with melee classes and spec's is moronic to say the least (and non casters ranges is even rarer so it makes it even more of a stupid change)

*not even sure how saying it's outdated even makes any scene, how was it outdated?

[phycus]

I'm not the first person to think this I'm sure, but doesn't survival feel like it could be a tank spec pretty easy. Solid mobility, interesting utility with traps, and I mean hell it's literally called survival. Throw in a taunt is some sort of pet damage sharing mechanic/cd and I kind feel like it's pretty much there. I do actually enjoy switching over and doing wq's as survival because it is pretty novel, but as folk point out another melee dps spec is bland. A mail wearing tank with a pet however, not so bland.