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  1. #461
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docturphil View Post
    Maybe they are smart enough, maybe they aren't. Maybe this would increase national security, maybe it wouldn't. That's not my point anyways.

    My point is that there are no violations of religious freedoms here. They're talking about specific countries, not specific religions.
    Which is why the discussion is only about Muslim terrorists. Obviously.

  2. #462
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugraka View Post
    I wonder what happens if they come from middle eastern countries and claim they're not Muslim. Would they be thrown into the registry anyways? I mean their skin is brown and they're coming from the ME... can't be too careful now
    Yes, that's exactly what happens. Like I mentioned earlier, my girlfriend is a non-Muslim Iranian, and had to go through this exact same special registration procedure when she came into the country under George W. Bush.

    Of course if Trump has his way, who even knows if she'll get to keep her visa? And her parents and sister almost certainly won't be able to come visit her.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
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  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Which is why the discussion is only about Muslim terrorists. Obviously.
    Yes, that's what ISIS is. They do what they do because of what they believe in. Should we ignore that fact in order to maintain our PC status? Because that's a giant load of horse shit. Religious freedom reaches its limit when what you believe violates the basic freedom of others. Strapping a bomb on yourself and blowing yourself up in a crowd of people is a violation of a few basic freedoms.

    Now that doesn't mean we can't recognize the fact that the vast majority of Muslims are not Islamic extremists. If you can't make make a distinction between Islamic extremism and an ordinary Muslim then that makes you the bigot (not that you called me a bigot).

    But if your point is that we're categorizing entire countries based on a few religious fanatics and we shouldn't do that, I would say that it depends on quite a few circumstances. Let's go back to the Westboro example. Let's say the government wanted to keep track of people from that church because they're ass holes, but they had no way of keeping track of who attends. How would they do that? Well, they might do it by keeping track of people who live in Topeka, Kansas. Now in the case of ISIS, it's much more spread out. So you have to keep track of a much larger area.

    All that said, I'm not sure that any of this would really even be necessary or worth it. But that's not what I'm arguing. I'm just saying that there are no violations of people's freedoms in this policy in and of itself. If you want to argue that it could lead to violations of people's religious freedom and that it is a step in that direction, then maybe you could have an argument.

  4. #464
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docturphil View Post
    What would people say if the government kept track of people from Westboro Baptist Church? Do you think Christians would give a flying fuck? No because they know that people who associate themselves with Westboro Baptist Church are a bunch of ass holes.
    No problem. They can keep track of the people in WBC, because the WBC folks have actually DONE something to merit that. What would be inappropriate would be to keep track of every person from the home towns of the people in the WBC, and all the people who call themselves Christian, just in case they MIGHT be like the people from WBC.

    I'd like to hear what an American Muslim thinks of this. Do they really feel like this threatens their religious freedom?
    My girlfriend said that the process was annoying in the past, but she's lived with it forever now. The bigger annoyance is always having to second guess what she can do while she's in the US, because she has to be double careful never to do anything that might even raise the slightest suspicion that she may be up to something weird. For example, if my uncle invites us to the gun range to shoot targets, she'd have to decline, for fear that someone might report her presence there to the police or ICE or whoever.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  5. #465
    Deleted
    I wonder when free people take this message as offensive and start... to do something... violent? Isn't freedom a right? Take it, die for it.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docturphil View Post
    You don't. You gauge whether or not someone is from a Muslim country. Just as you wouldn't gauge whether or not someone is a Christian from Westboro Baptist Church. You would just gauge that they're from Westboro Baptist Church.

    It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with where they're coming from. They're coming from countries that have a higher risk of sending terrorist immigrants. Countries where we believe ISIS or other terrorist organizations may have influence.
    There is no tangible evidence of a "higher risk factor" of countries sending terrorist immigrants.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I'm fairly sure that ISIS is intelligent enough to send their terrorists via non-Muslim countries.

    But hey, as long as it makes the poor widdle rural voters sleep better at night, fuck sane policy.
    You mean they are not going to come in wearing their Isis gear and yell "God is Great" Damn! This is going to be tough
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    There is no tangible evidence of a "higher risk factor" of countries sending terrorist immigrants.
    If that's the case, then it's a stupid policy, but not because it's a violation of religious freedom. It would be a stupid policy because it's a waste of time and money.

  9. #469
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docturphil View Post
    If that's the case, then it's a stupid policy, but not because it's a violation of religious freedom. It would be a stupid policy because it's a waste of time and money.
    Precisely; it's akin to investigations and legislation on voter fraud.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    My girlfriend will have to register. And she's not even Muslim, but because she comes from Iran, she's going to be treated differently from any other immigrant. I'd love to be able to take her down to the gun range with some of the rest of my family some time, but if it ever got back to the FBI that she'd been to a gun range taking part in a totally legal activity, she could lose her visa status, so she won't take that chance.
    It's pretty easy for conservatives to give up the liberties and freedoms of others so they can feel safer.




    I do like how the conservatives are broken up into a few groups in this thread... some straight up denying that these people even discussed making a muslim registry. "YOU CAN'T TRUST THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA TO REPORT ANYTHING TRUTHFULLY!"

    The others who are like "This is a great thing, we should definitely register all brown people to be safe!"

    Some who are like "We need to do more, we still need to ban and deport all muslims!"

    And then the two conservatives who are like "I seriously hope they don't go through with this." But those people have always been the most reasonable conservatives on these boards, and get mad respect.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Sicari View Post
    We've already seen how this works in Europe.
    OMG how dramatic can you liberals be? When he starts burning muslims in ovens and setting up death camps let me know. Until then take a deep breath, maybe go to a safe space, get a puppy or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    I feel bad for all those 'protesters' at the Trump rally, it's like the real life equivalent of making a 40 man raid in WoW and not having the boss spawn, thereby denying them a chance at looting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's a nonsense argument that ignores what words mean.

  12. #472
    A criminal background check or something equivalent should be placed as a standard. But to track a human like a micro chipped puppy is a bit too much.

  13. #473
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    Great news. I hope Europe will do the same. Look at the amount of Muslims jailed in France for terrorism. Almost 500 in ONE year. It's insane. I have never seen ONE Asian/Buddhist commit terrorism in the West.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    No problem. They can keep track of the people in WBC, because the WBC folks have actually DONE something to merit that. What would be inappropriate would be to keep track of every person from the home towns of the people in the WBC, and all the people who call themselves Christian, just in case they MIGHT be like the people from WBC.
    True, but what if the people from WBC met privately and had members all around the state of Kansas? At that point I think it becomes a question of how much of a threat they really are. Do they have the potential to blow up a skyscraper? Is it possible they are in possession of nuclear weapons? If they are that much of a threat, I feel like it becomes necessary. Not saying that ISIS is that much of a threat, but it's something to think about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    My girlfriend said that the process was annoying in the past, but she's lived with it forever now. The bigger annoyance is always having to second guess what she can do while she's in the US, because she has to be double careful never to do anything that might even raise the slightest suspicion that she may be up to something weird. For example, if my uncle invites us to the gun range to shoot targets, she'd have to decline, for fear that someone might report her presence there to the police or ICE or whoever.
    I'm curious as to whether or not anything would actually happen if she went to a shooting range or if she's just overly paranoid due to the media blowing things out of proportion. In any case, it's unfortunate that she feels she has to be careful like that.

  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxxor View Post
    OMG how dramatic can you liberals be? When he starts burning muslims in ovens and setting up death camps let me know. Until then take a deep breath, maybe go to a safe space, get a puppy or something.
    Generally a good idea to prevent these issues BEFORE the ovens and death camps. Just saying.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Generally a good idea to prevent these issues BEFORE the ovens and death camps. Just saying.
    I bet they believe that's how Hitler started up. It only goes to show peoples education level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  17. #477
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Someone pulled out the Nazi card quick on this one.

    "Too bad you missed the "In 2010, he helped draft an Arizona law that required state and local officials to check the immigration status of individuals stopped by police. Parts of the law, which was fiercely opposed by Hispanic and civil rights groups, were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2011.

    Kobach was also the architect of a 2013 Kansas law requiring voters to provide proof-of-citizenship documents, such as birth certificates or U.S. passports, when registering for the first time. A U.S. appeals court blocked that law after challenges from civil rights groups."

    Seems like the checks and balances put in place are working to keep it the land of the free?
    Or maybe you are just spinning something so you can pull the Nazi card out?
    People seem to love to pull that Nazi card! No matter the topic...minorities...lgbt...you name it...should just change his name to Donald Hitler already!

  18. #478
    Can people actually talk about reforming the Islamic Community so that such laws are not necessary? As an EX Muslim, I can sincerely say there is genuine rot in Islamic community typically pakistani and Somalian community. What can we do to reform the community perhaps education in schools on Islam? It might be possible to cause schism among eastern and western muslims

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Hif View Post
    So it seems now we are entering the days of a fascist regime. Registering people just based on their faith. Welcome to the land of the free.
    Something people seem to forget, and its in your quote, is that this will be reinstated. I dont recall so much outrage after 9/11, when the Bush Administration first implemented it. Now Im on the side that this is a bad idea, but it will be the second time this bad idea surfaces. This isnt new.

  20. #480
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docturphil View Post
    True, but what if the people from WBC met privately and had members all around the state of Kansas? At that point I think it becomes a question of how much of a threat they really are. Do they have the potential to blow up a skyscraper? Is it possible they are in possession of nuclear weapons? If they are that much of a threat, I feel like it becomes necessary. Not saying that ISIS is that much of a threat, but it's something to think about.
    I'm sorry, but my neuroscientist girlfriend is not someone with the potential to blow up a skyscraper. Nor is she in possession of a nuclear bomb. Nor are the vast majority of people coming into the country. If we couldn't tell who from Kansas was a terrorist and who wasn't, I wouldn't be in favor of treating every person from Kansas as if they were a terrorist, because that would be unnecessarily impinging on the rights and privileges of the people of Kansas. Instead, I think we should be concentrating on actions. Seeking out people we know have links to extremism. You know, the stuff that actually helps us find people plotting attacks.

    I'm curious as to whether or not anything would actually happen if she went to a shooting range or if she's just overly paranoid due to the media blowing things out of proportion. In any case, it's unfortunate that she feels she has to be careful like that.
    It's part of the collective anxiety of people from Muslim countries living in the United States right now. They're all hyper-aware that the country is suspicious of them, and try to teach each other how to avoid drawing groundless suspicion to themselves. There's a bit of survival mode going on there, which is really unfortunate. It sucks to have to live in paranoia.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

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